Centrica/CST claimform - Industrial Training Bond ***Claim Discontinued***

[dx100uk]

credit style do not own the debt, Centrica does

so are the only one that can instruct a solicitor to issue a court claim are Centrica not some tinpot powerless dca.

 

but ofcourse any real solicitor, not a fake/tame paperwork only or more correctly,... can I borrow your letterhead mr solicitor if I give you a cut should this mug cough up - dca use of it...will know they have to abide by the pre action protocol procedure and send a letter of claim first, not just issue a request to northants robocourt for them to raise a speculative court claim 

[BadMojo]

Thank you. So it's all bark and no bite until Centrica's legal representation issues a letter before action...ok.

[ericsbrother]

I am CONSIDERING going to the moon for my holidays

[BadMojo]

Best mates with Elon Musk? Then I'd believe it!

[BadMojo]

Nothing to report since last post. But I'll keep updating, so keep coming back.

Edited February 5, 2020 by BadMojo

[BadMojo]

I've received a new letter with a CST Law letterhead.

They say they've been passed my account for review.

They are now assessing my account for possible legal action in order to recover the alleged debt.

 

If they issue legal proceedings and it results in a CCJ the amount will increase (they itemise court fees and solicitor's fees).

 

If I do not pay the amount or contact they within seven days legal action may commence to recover the balance without further notice to me.

 

looking for comment and advise again please?

[dx100uk]

not a letter of claim

 

std rubbish every fake/tame paperwork only solicitor sends out for DCA's every day.

probably not even them that sent it but the DCA using their letterhead in the same printer the last threat-o-gram came from.

[ericsbrother]

they are lawyers who are acting as debt collectors and hope that the use of their letterhad frightens you into paying up in the same way as DCBL like to remind peopel they are bailiffs when acting as a letter writer

advice remains the same, wait for Centrica to decide what they are doing and then challenge them to show the exact amount without the added unicorn food tax

[BadMojo]

Thank you both.

[Engineer12]

Yo badmojo I’m in the same boat have you heard anything else?

[BadMojo]

Nothing since my last post.

[London1971]

From their point of view it's actually excellent business practice.  They know that there is zero chance of them being able to enforce anything but if they can send out , say 1000 letters, 3 or 4 will poo themselves and pay up. All for the outlay of using an unpaid intern to type up a 'scary' letter and some second class stamps.

[dx100uk]

open

[BadMojo]

Good Afternoon Everyone

 

Well, after a period of silence, today I received a letter from the County Courts. Centrica are now pursuing me for 'overpayment of salary/expenses full particulars of which have been previously supplied.' The grand sum of £3404.34. Which includes interest and court fees.

 

Bit of a shock tbh.

 

So I'm back here asking for some advice please. Tell me what you need to know...

 

Up to this point I have not been responding to the collection agencies letters and there has been a long period of time since the last letters. I do not recall every receiving documentation fully explaining what and why I owe them any money.

 

I have spoken with an old work colleague that left just before me and he hasn't heard anything recently, nor has the person he's been in touch with. However, they have previously responded to the letters and disputed they owed any money, saying they have signed nothing, or been provided with no documentation to show/prove they do. That's the only difference (I haven't replied to dispute anything.)

Edited July 14, 2021 by BadMojo

[dx100uk]

please complete this:

 

You have received a Court Claim ISSUED IN ENGLAND & WALES What you need to do - Financial Legal Issues - Consumer Action Group

[BadMojo]

Name of the Claimant ? Centrica PLC

 

Date of issue –  13 Jul 2021

 

Date  to acknowledge) = 30.07.21

 

date to submit defence = 13.08.2021 (33 days in total) -

 

 

Particulars of Claim

 

What is the claim for – the reason they have issued the claim? 

 

1.The Claimant's claim is in respect of an overpayment of salary/expenses, full particulars of which have been previously supplied.

 

2.And the claimant claims 2781 GBP, Account No. xxxxxx, 339 GBP,

interest thereon in accordance with Section 69a of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8.00% p.a calculated from the date upon which payment became due to the date hereof as set out below.

Further interest at the rate of 0.61 GBP per day (8.00% p.a.) to judgement or payment.

 

What is the total value of the claim? £3404.34
 

Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? I have not received a 'letter of claim'. The only letters I have received are from DCA threatening potential legal action and court proceedings.
 

Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No
 

Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? n/a

Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? No
 

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ?  Employment commenced, any paperwork signed, 2015
 

Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? Signed offer of employment via email and then perhaps some further paperwork at their premises (training academy Leeds) during induction Nov 2015
 

Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? No. I cannot see any reference to this alleged 'debt'.
 

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Unsure. Claimant is Centrica. 'Address for sending documents and payments' is CST LAW, Sheffield.
 

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? Unsure how to answer this.
 

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? I received several letters claiming I owed them money. Unsure if any of those count as a 'Default Notice'
 

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? n/a
 

Why did you cease payments? n/a
 

What was the date of your last payment? n/a
 

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? I dispute owing them any money, but have not written to them (after receiving advice here).
 

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? No. But I may have to.
 

What you need to do now.

 

Answer the questions above

[BankFodder]

Please read up on estoppel – follow the link.

I know that you've explained in your opening post about what happened – but I still don't really understand.

I do understand that they paid for some kind of training programme and the deal was that if you left before a certain time that you would have to repay a certain amount of money. This is on a sliding scale – one year, two years, three years.

You left in the third year and so they are claiming back money for that final year.

How is the money meant to be repaid to them? Was it meant to be deducted from your pay? Have you had any indication that the money had been fully deducted and that there was none further outstanding? Or did you have any inkling that there was still money owed?

[dx100uk]

i will suspect the claimant knows nothing about CST law doing this.

 

On 21/05/2020 at 10:33, Engineer12 said:

under training bond compliance they can only try and get back any external costs.

All training was in house at the company at their “academy” 

 

 

[BadMojo]

@BankFodderThe training bond was some sort of contractual agreement whereby Centrica claim back, on a sliding scale, their 'training costs' if you leave business within 3 years. I admit, I was aware of it.

 

My last payslip was November 2017, but 100% of it was deducted as payback for this training bond. (As I recall. I need to dig out the actual payslip, but I've checked my bank account and no money went into my account that month.) There was no credit agreement. It wasn't a loan. It didn't need 'paying back' during my time with the business. It was just something they claimed was their in-house training costs, which they would claw back if you left within 3 years. All training was in-house. They had their own academy and staff.

 

After the last payslip deduction I heard nothing for a while (until I created this thread) and I considered the matter closed. On leaving I was advised by the union rep that I shouldn't raise the subject and that he was unaware of anyone, ever, being approached for the money after leaving the company. So when they took all my wages that last month, I left it at that, as I was well into my 3rd year and regarded the matter closed with the money they reclaimed.

Edited July 14, 2021 by BadMojo

[BankFodder]

I have to say that I still don't really understand what you are saying about how the debt was meant to be repaid - and how it was actually managed.

The point is that they are probably only two defences.
One is that in fact the money was repaid and they have misunderstood or miscalculated. Second is to defend on an estoppel which is basically that they were in charge of deducting payments from you and there was no reason for you to imagine that they hadn't deducted everything that was owed and that there was no reason for you to imagine that there was something outstanding.
In other words, all the signs were that the "debt" had been fully repaid and the problem was caused by their error not yours. You took at face value and in good faith you believe that the money had been paid and that you didn't have anything.

 

In order to run an estoppel you will have to convince a court that you absolutely relied on their authority and management of the deductions and there is no way that you or any reasonable person could afford any suspicion that the debt hadn't been completely repaid.

If you can convince a court then the claimant would be prevented "estopped" from asserting the debt.
If you are unable to show that level of good faith then the court find against you and you would lose.

 

[BadMojo]

I found my final payslip and amongst the final deductions was an amount of £3000. This sent my final payslip into negative, -£2797. I received no other correspondence from BG regarding the training bond, demands to pay it back and/or instructions on how to do so. I regarded the matter as closed and waited for them to contact me. They didn't, until....

 

A period of time passed and then I started to received DCA demands, posted here, and followed the advice to ignore.

 

I never regarded it as a debt, as I did not borrow any money, or sign a credit agreement, or anything along those lines. I regarded it as a penalty, which they would not pursue and time passed...

 

I 'm finding it difficult to imagine the estoppel approach would work, bearing in mind the DCAs started to write to me saying I owed them the money - which I ignored.

Edited July 14, 2021 by BadMojo

[dx100uk]

no the dca wrote on behalf of their client, whom is the claimant not the dca wanting money.

 

going by a few threads here and what i researched when these were 'popular', i believe all what you state above being the case..but within your contract you will find the details of the bond, and its terms. if i remember these correctly, you would not have been employed had you not 'agreed' to the training and as you say above if you 'left' within 3yrs it becomes 'due'.

 

now you are cutting new ground here, as none to date, nor any indications on the entire internet, has anyone ever tried court before, which, is the main reason i think CST are flying a kite here, although the claimant is ofcourse centrica... but i doubt they are even aware the claim has been made upon their behalf.

 

although its not typically recommended, why don't you do give their legal debt a call (NOT CST!!) , and findout what they know/want. i can't be certain in this, but in the back of my mind, i'm sure that someone did contact them directly and they simply wrote it off and didn't know dca's had even been actioned..

 

as the online MCOL court process require acknowledgement and a CPR 31:14 request needs sending to CST, in the normal course of the claim, you would have no direct contact from the claimant. i'd go ring them and have a 'chat'...you never know!

[BadMojo]

I've re-read the letter I received on 22nd June 2021 (letter dated 8th June 2021). It would appear this was their 'pre-action' letter and gave me 30 days to respond from the date of their letter, or they may proceed with legal action. Note how long the letter took to get to me. I took this to be another empty threat, like all the other letters, but it would appear I was wrong.

 

The letter refers to an overpayments of wages, but that is not the case. They are trying to reclaim the training 'penalty' which they could not take in full when I left (as my wages did not cover it).

 

The form they included gives me many options, from acknowledging the debt is mine and paying it in full, offering part payment, or disputing the whole amount. It also gives me the opportunity to ask for paperwork from them, e.g. a copy of any written contract. I am wondering if I should fill this in now.

 

Bottom line is, I do not have the money. I have significant credit card debt and can show this and that I cannot afford to pay them anything. I could probably find £1 per month, as per some of the info I've seen here.

 

I will answer any further questions to the best of my ability and would appreciate any advice on how best to proceed. Presumably, the court papers are the most important and I need to respond in a timely manner, but is it worth filling in CST Law's paperwork and requesting Centrica's contracts on the 'debt'? Or are we past that point now?

[dx100uk]

so yes that was a PAPLOC then with a reply 'pack'.

 

you can request those docs within the CPR that goes to CST so no worries.

 

i'l post things later for AOS/CPR for you, 

 

can you scan the 1st pages of the letter of claim up to PDF please

read our upload guide carefully .....one PDF ONLY.

 

dont need the reply form, but need to see what they say as they state in their POC they have already detailed full particulars, so i suspect its in the letter of claim

 

d

x

[BankFodder]

You seem to be saying that in fact the money has been repaid. You need to doublecheck this and be sure.

 

If you apply in writing then refer to the date you received the letter even though it was dated XXX. So that it's clear on a paper trail that they are sending letters which are taking three weeks to get to you – in other words a big chunk of the 30 days.
I don't suppose you kept the envelope so that you have seen the postmark?

I suggest that you start doing that.

I believe that they have to give you 30 days and then if you respond they have a further 30 days and in fact it can be strung out for 90 days.
Maybe somebody can remind us of where that rule is. It's a fairly recent rule.

You been advised to speak directly with the company legal department. I suggest that after you have done this you then send the company – your employers – a subject access request. Don't mention it when you speak to your company legal department that afterwards send them the SAR and see what it might produce.

You say you've got no money – which is understandable. It eventually a claim is actually issued then you must let us know immediately and also you will have to file an acknowledgement of service within 14 days – as has already been pointed out by my site team colleague. Depending on what you discover, I would suggest that you then put in a defence that the money has been paid and that if it is hasn't been paid that you had every reason to believe it had been paid and that you are going to rely on and estoppel.

However, as it now seems that you haven't actually been issued a court claim at all, there is no hurry.