Centrica/CST claimform - Industrial Training Bond ***Claim Discontinued***

[BadMojo]

I have attached the Letter of Claim. 

 

They continue to refer to it as an overpayment of wages. It is not.

 

I have the envelope, but there's no post mark, or date. Just a QR code and some sort of reference number. I hand wrote on the envelope the date I received it, as it shocked me how long it had taken to get to me.

 

So is my next step to call Centrica/BG and tell them what's happening and discuss a resolution? If I am, do I need to be careful with my words and not acknowledge any debt? Should I be asking for a copy of their contracts to show that I do/dont owe anything?

 

The money (£3000) wasn't taken in full, as my wage was not large enough to cover it. The final amount on the payslip was a minus amount! There was no supporting paperwork at the time, or afterwards, explaining anything to do with the training bond or monies owed. Until I started to receive DCA letters much later (start of thread).

LOC_08-07-2021.pdf

Edited July 15, 2021 by BadMojo

[dx100uk]

well no details of how the debt is made there then, so their POC is trash and that needs pointing out later.

 

go ring centrica/BG, findout what is going on as it appears they are after the 2yrs figure of £6k and the £2781 is the outstanding having already had £3k as last wages grab back.

 

see what you can find out, but don't go ringing CST even if told too they will LIE.

 

dx

 

[BadMojo]

Sorry, I may not have been clear regarding the final wageslip as I've been concentrating on the training bond of £3000.

 

They attempted to deduct £3000 along with other deductions, like tax, NI, pension, but they also took £1000 which was a retention bonus paid at the start of the year (on the understanding that it would be recovered if you left within 12 months.

At the time, I had no intention of leaving, so accepted it.)

 

I wasn't actually paid enough that month to cover all these deductions, so my wage was displayed as a negative amount on my slip. -£2,797.08.

 

they've attempted to recover £4000, but were only able to get their hands on £1200.

 

 

[dx100uk]

good in away then only after £3k then.

 

go have a chat i'm sure it will clarify things, see what they say.

 

[BadMojo]

I called Centrica People Services, which is said to handle calls from current and ex-employees.

 

They gave me a number for Centrica Collections, but that number is 'not accepting calls right now'.

I called People Services back and got an email address.

 

The guy on the phone was able to look up my file and suggested, from the limited details he has access to, that it was for the training bond. For a better response I need to email collections so they can refer to payroll.

 

Shall I pen them a brief email asking to explain CST's impending court action and/or ask for copies of any documents they have in support of their claim?

Edited December 3, 2021 by dx100uk
spacing

[dx100uk]

it is not CST's impending court action, centrica are the claimant

 

good lets see what transpires, we just need to be mindful not to miss AOS deadline

[BadMojo]

Sorry, shall I write the email? I'm mindful of putting something in writing that could jeopardise my position and of the potential delay in their responding.

[dx100uk]

the claimant will have to prove with documentation that you owe the money.

you can't jeopardise your position at all, like admitting etc.

their POC is pants they cant just say we've already told him what he owes.

 

as i say i suspect centrica have no idea CST have actually raised a claim i bet but of course must have given permission for it to sometime 'happen' 

[BadMojo]

I received a reply from Centrica today. They're sending me a 

breakdown of the overpayment and a copy of my contract. 

 

They've also placed a hold on the case with CST Law until the information has been received, as this could take up to 10 working days

[dx100uk]

They cant, keep to the court timeline regardless.

 

dont miss aos

[BadMojo]

OK. Will do. I'll need to come back and get some advice on that; which box to tick, section to fill in etc. 

[dx100uk]

pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform.
[if mcol is not working return after the w/end or the next day if week time]
.
 register as an individual on the Gov't Gateway Site
 note down your details inc the long gateway number given, you might need it later.
 then log in to the MCOL Website
.
 select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box.
.
 then using the details required from the claimform
.
 defend all
 leave jurisdiction unticked
 you DO NOT file a defence at this time
[BUT you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 ]
click thru to the end
confirm and exit MCOL.
...

get a CPR  31:14  request running to the solicitors [if one is not listed send to the claimant]
...
.[use our other CPR letter if the claim is for an OD or Telecom Debt]
.

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/332546-legal-cpr-3114-request-request-for-information-when-a-claim-has-been-issued/

.

on BOTH type your name ONLY
Do Not sign anything
.
you DO NOT await the return of ANY paperwork 
you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform [1 in the count]

..............

 

[BadMojo]

I have responded to the AOS as advised above.

 

I have tweaked the document you listed and have a draft saved. What is the best/safest way for it to be reviewed here before I post it?

[dx100uk]

most of the text is std 

if you mean the list of what docs you have requested copy and past that section here.

 

 

[BadMojo]

I've received a reply from Centrica. They've emailed me two documents. The first a break down of the 'debt'. The second a copy of my employment contract. 

 

The payroll document is basically a rewording of my last month's wage slip, highlighting income and deductions. I didn't receive enough pay to cover the reclamation of the £1000 retention bonus and £3000 training bond, so it left me with a minus amount, approx - £2800 owed, a debt in their words. 

 

The second document is a digital version of my employment contract, which it says I signed digitally in April 2015, a few months before I started working for them. There is no written signature. It shows a date, time and IP address. 

 

"To discuss repayment options please call 0333 202 9690 or send an email to:

[email protected]" .

Edited July 21, 2021 by BadMojo

[dx100uk]

redact and upload to one multipage PDF please.

read our upload guide carefully

 

dx

 

[BadMojo]

CPR letter. Pretty much word for word original document. Removed a few of the numbered points; left in one; added a second (very basic)

 

 

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of the documents mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

 

·         The agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

 

·         Full particulars of the alleged overpayment of salary/expenses.

 

 

[BadMojo]

Preparing the contract for posting will take some time as it's 18 pages long.

[dx100uk]

read upload carefully use the sites listed there too.

[BadMojo]

Attached is the employment contract. Section on training bond towards rear.

 

The document had no physical signature. But the final page had (now redacted) a date and IP address relating to what was possibly a digital signature, i.e. tick a box to agree, type thing.

Contract_redacted.pdf

[dx100uk]

6.8 On termination of your employment the Company may deduct from your final salary payment and any other sums due to you from the Company an ;mount equal to any sums you owe to the Company, inducting but not limited to any amounts repayable in respect of training and assessment costs pursuant to these Terms and Conditions of Employment and the attached Training Bond.

 

 

1 hour ago, BadMojo said:

The document had no physical signature. But the final page had (now redacted) a date and IP address relating to what was possibly a digital signature, i.e. tick a box to agree, type thing.

 

the above constitutes a digital signature under the relevant act.

 

[BadMojo]

What are you saying? 

[dx100uk]

under the 2006 digital signature rules (IP address can be traceable ), you will be deemed to have agreed to the terms of the contract.

of which the above states.

 

pers i can't see a way out of this.

might be an idea to investigate a Tomlin Order with CST 

unless anyone has any other ideas.

 

just another thought..

as you have a contact at collections whom have said they have instigated a 'hold' , why don't you go ring them back tomorrow and thank them for the information and that you now realise you are liable for the training bond 3yrs sum.

 

ask them if they would be willing to enter into a reasonable monthly payment scheme if they drop the court claim totally....that might atleast save you a few £'s on their court fees etc etc 

[BadMojo]

I was reaching a similar conclusion. Unless someone can offer another option I am going to have to enter into negotiations on repayment. 

 

Now, I'm in considerable credit card debt and can complete financial statements (like the one CST Law included with their letter) to show this. How do courts usually view this fact/information? I am not in a position to pay £3000. So it will either have to be significantly reduced, or paid back over a significant time period. 

 

What are the pros, cons, considerations for sending Centrica Collections a financial statement of facts as part of our conversation /negotiation? 

[dx100uk]

other than agreeing to the the tomlin the court have no part to play if you go tomlin.

i'd suggest you ring BG as suggested see if they'll drop the claim totally. that way courts not ever involved, its a mutual agreement.

even if you lost the whole case the judge would only order a small £PCM payment which if untenable can be varied via an N245.

 

so go direct and start low say £10-£25PCM?