Centrica/CST claimform - Industrial Training Bond ***Claim Discontinued***

[dx100uk]

1.The Claimant's claim is in respect of an overpayment of salary/expenses, full particulars of which have been previously supplied.

 

just stating over payment of salary, is not good enough they MUST detail exactly how this came about.

what has been sent to you previous to the claim, does not 'count' so request again in CPR

 

what you have included above wont be the format of your defence no.

[BadMojo]

I've tried to respond to the lack of signed documents relating to the training bond at the same time suggesting that any such bond is arbitrary and unenforceable.

 

I know people that have been released without any bond and personally know of one guy that was only asked for £400.

 

The cost of the training was subsidised by the government and mostly to internal departments and other engineers. I don't know if this has any bearing, or should be omitted.

 

Any advice would be appreciated, as I'm finding it quite difficult.

 

Centrica provided the documents I have attached in previous posts, after the claim was received. I'm concerned if I say I have had no response from CST Law regarding my CPR as 'stretching a point', as I have received paperwork resulting from contact with Centrica directly.

 

A friend in the same boat as me has been talking with CST and asked them for evidence of the 'overpayment'. They have told him verbally and in writing (an email) that whilst they seek a response from their client regarding the issues he has raised, they will place a hold on legal proceedings.

 

It's my understanding from this forum that he should not deviate from the court's timeline and regardless of what CST Law have said, respond as per the court's requirements - correct?

Edited August 9, 2021 by BadMojo

[dx100uk]

yes correct, don't get 'spoofed'.

 

ok if you went and read a few of the court claim threads i pointed too earlier, you'd gain a some perception upon how the court process works, you  as a member of joe public, are called a 'litigant in person', this gives you certain 'leeway', so don't keep worrying that by stating xyz you are placing yourself in some kind of 'trouble' that the will annoy the judge and cloud whatever decision he makes, it won't.

 

it doesn't really matter the claimant has previously provided 'some' information, everything they intend to rely upon in court to support their claim and 'counter' your defence MUST be produced, at the witness statement (disclosures) stage regardless to CPR 31:14. the same applies to you for your WS.

 

1.The Claimant's claim is in respect of an overpayment of salary/expenses, full particulars of which have been previously supplied.

 

as an example. here are some std phrases you need to inc from our std holding/no paperwork defences

 #####Defence######

The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature.

The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

 

 A CPR 31:14 request was made to the claimants solicitor, requesting disclosure of all documents on which the Claimant is basing their claim. The claimants solicitor to date has not responded. 

 

 It is therefore not accepted with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant and the Claimant is put to strict proof to:

 a) show how the Defendant has entered into the training bond and;
 b) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for and;

 8. As per Civil Procedure 16.5 it is expected that the claimants prove the allegation that the money is owed

 

 10. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.
 

 

is your mates claimform earlier or later than yours?

 

[BadMojo]

He got it a few days after me.

[BadMojo]

I'm working on the defence again. In relation to following the requirements of 16.5:

 

Quote

Content of defence

16.5

(1) In his defence, the defendant must state –

(a) which of the allegations in the particulars of claim he denies;

(b) which allegations he is unable to admit or deny, but which he requires the claimant to prove; and

(c) which allegations he admits.

 

(2) Where the defendant denies an allegation –

(a) he must state his reasons for doing so; and

(b) if he intends to put forward a different version of events from that given by the claimant, he must state his own version.

 

Do you think I should respond specifically to the claim mentioning overpayment of salary/expenses? I just thinking the claim form does not mention the training bond at all.

 

I'm also considering the merits of mentioning how long it took the letter before claim to arrive (dated 8th June, delivered 22nd June)?

 

OK. How about this:

 

The Defendant contends that the Particulars of Claim are vague and generic in nature and as such fails to comply with CPR 16.4. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

The Claimant has not complied with paragraph 3.2 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol). Their letter of claim dated 8th June 2021 was not received by the Defendant until 22nd June 2021. It is respectfully requested that the court take this into consideration pursuant to 7.1 PAPDC.

 

The claimant’s claim in respect of an overpayment of salary/expenses is without merit and is denied its entirety.

 

It is therefore not accepted with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant and the Claimant is put to strict proof to:

 

a)     Provide signed copies of all employment contracts or agreements that form a part of the claimants claim.

b)     show how the Claimant has reached the amount claimed for.

 

* Should this bit not be asking how the claimant has reached (come up with) the amount ££££ they’re claiming for?

 

As per Civil Procedure 16.5 it is expected that the claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

 

By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

 

Or should I just use yours verbatim? I appreciate this may be frustrating for you as you see it week in, week out, but this is quite overwhelming.

Edited August 11, 2021 by BadMojo

[dx100uk]

i've updated the defence above

see what @Andyorch thinks 

 

defence due friday 4pm

 

 

[AndyOrch]

I will run through the topic later

[BadMojo]

I'm off to bed now and unless I'm advised differently, I will use what is above. I will probably have to submit the defence first thing in the morning as I will be tied up in work all day. Do I just copy and paste the text into a box on the MCOL website? Any words of advice/warning for that?

Edited August 12, 2021 by BadMojo

[AndyOrch]

I wouldnt......its not fit for purpose...unfortunately I have not had time to finalise it today due to matters beyond control I have read the full topic now and will be able to draft it tomorrow ...you have until 4.00pm tomorrow to submit it on line..or even over the weekend although it wont be processed until Monday.

 

Its your choice if you wish to submit the above but I very much recommend against it.

 

 

 

.

[BadMojo]

Ok. Thank you for looking. I will make the time to check back and submit tomorrow. Thank you. 

[AndyOrch]

Defence Centrica..pdf

 

Please check the above for accuracy and insert the amount marked in red.

 

Andy

[BadMojo]

There was also a retention bonus of £1000 that was also recovered from my last payslip (which I don't dispute). So I'll amend para 4 to reflect that?

 

4. On receiving my final months’ salary of Nov 2017 the claimant had already deducted the alleged amount stated and my final salary payment was nil which would normally average around £1600 net after deductions. The final deductions were an amount of £3000 (+£1000 retention bonus recovery). This sent my final pay slip into a negative -£2797. I received no other correspondence from BG regarding the training bond, demands to pay it back and/or instructions on how to do so.

 

Over the several months we were being trained, we were given/shown much paperwork; some needed signing, some did not. I do not recall one regarding the training bond, or signing one regarding the training bond. However, ex-colleagues tell me this may have happened.

 

Centrica have not provided these documents and when asked to specifically supply them they essentially say they do not exist as there are 'no more documents to send you'. With regard to this, I'm a little uncomfortable with para 5. Can/should I amend to say, 'I do not recall...' ?

 

5. I do not recall signing any agreement in connection to the alleged amount, or agree any payment arrangement should my employment not exceed the three years.

Centrica Defence_edit.pdf

Edited August 13, 2021 by BadMojo

[AndyOrch]

[dx100uk]

thank you andy

 

dx

 

[BadMojo]

Has anyone ever experienced 'technical issues' when trying to upload their defence? I've pasted the text and when I click next or save it fails with:

 

'We are sorry, but your request has been rejected owing to one or more technical reasons. Please check your input and try again. If you continue to get this message then please contact the Money Claim helpdesk.'

[dx100uk]

MCOL often has issues

don't worry too much about it.

 

try again before near 4pm

but it wont hurt if you have to await till monday

 

as long as you are only copying the text from the PDF as from after the claimants poc you don't need that

[BadMojo]

It's bonkers. I tried calling the support number supplied in the error message and it says it's not in service!

 

I've attached the PDF I'm copying the text from.

Centrica Defence CAG.pdf

Edited August 13, 2021 by BadMojo

[dx100uk]

good

not unusual from the whole MCOL system.

[BadMojo]

Finally got it to work. 

 

Thanks to everyone so far. Let's see how this pans out...

[dx100uk]

they have 28 days to do 'something' else the claim gets autostayed.

the court should write and inform you your defence is lodged, and explain too

[AndyOrch]

The following topic may be of interest to you....although in Scotland.

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/439228-cited-to-sheffield-county-court-for-a-debt-living-in-scotland/?tab=comments#comment-5125993

 

Andy

 

[BadMojo]

It's going to be 35 days come tomorrow and I haven't heard anything. I've logged into MCOL and there appears to be no status update since I filed my defence.

[AndyOrch]

Cutting it fine aren't they...the longer the better as the claim will be stayed.

[BadMojo]

Still nothing my end. Should the court tell me it's been stayed?

 

I've had an update from a friend/ex-colleague in a similar position - he's getting the run around from Centrica and they aren't providing him any of the paperwork he's asked for. He's also been talking to CST Law and he reports they're actually being polite and helpful, in stark contrast as to how Centrica have been speaking to him! Centrica are also continuing to instruct him to deal with CST Law directly (as they did me) and that the debt has been sold, but CST say it hasn't! 

[dx100uk]

there is no notification upon an autostay after day 28 on the court letter you got.

 

pers i'd now be telling your friend to stop all comms.. and you too!

 

once a claim is autostayed it will cost centrica £255 to lift the stay and with no better paperwork or argument the court wont accept it and you can object too.

 

i cant see them wasting that money

 

lets be clear here from day 1 all these claims were speculative hoping the mug that got one would wet themselves and blindly give them free money.

 

dx