Death of dad - stepmother wont move out

[juzza999]

Desperately need some legal advice,

 

 

my dad recently passed away 6 June 17,

very suddenly hadn't been ill and only 71 (pneumonia and sepsis)

 

 

my dad remarried 10 years ago following the death of our mum.

 

They lived in stepmothers house until recently (our family home was rented out)

my stepmothers house was sold and they moved into our family home, which was owned outright by my dad.

 

Probate is complete,

my dad appointed myself,

my brother and stepmother as executors of his estate

although my brother and I are beneficiaries,

he has left the family home to my brother and I.

 

My stepmother said she would like to buy the house from us,

after several valuations we agreed a price.

All going ok,

 

 

conveyances started then suddenly she has changed her mind no longer wants to buy it but is making no attempt to move out or look for something else.

Our solicitor is unable to offer any advice as she dealt with the 3 of us as executors.

 

Where do we stand legally?

Can we ask our stepmother to find alternative accommodation?

Timescales?

Can we enter the house?

We have dads keys.

 

It's not hard enough that we've lost our dad but then this to deal with too.

Our relationship with our stepmother has pretty much broken down,

we feel we have helped and supported her throughout the estate and probate issues but now this...

[Guest]

at first sight am thinking of a spouses poss rights in inheritance despite there being a will. it may be that there could be a right of occupancy until, or even a share/financial provision interest.

your current solicitor seems no doubt concerned about poss conflict of interest.

see another a solicitor.

[Mr.P]

This has the potential to get messy and very expensive..

 

The first step would be to evict the stepmother if she is unwilling to leave voluntarily. If the property is subject to probate and registered ownership is in limbo, then all three executors would need to agree to eviction proceedings. If the house has already been registered in your name, then you could proceed with an eviction in your capacity of the legal owner.

 

But to talk of eviction so soon is premature. Your step mother may well be struggling with coming to terms with the death of her partner of ten years. In addition, with Christmas not that far away, would you really want to make her homeless at that time of year ?

 

I'd suggest nudging her in to buying/renting a smaller place and give her a date early next year to vacate. A reasonable timescale will make it less likely that she would dig her heals in, and if it did go to court, it would demonstrate sympathetic treatment from your side.

[mariner51]

How did you father dispose of the property in his Will?

Sounds like he left all 3 an equal share.

Unless one buys out the other 2, the house would have to sold and the proceeds distributed, though stepmother may be able to claim 50% of her last husband's Estate Probate valuation.

What are the ages of all 3 of you?

The Executors need the prof advice of a prof ind Family & Wills Solicitor, paid for by your father's Estate (if Probate not yet granted).

I would not evict step mum until I knew the answers/consequences.

[juzza999]

It's a truly horrible situation, the will is ver specific, the property belongs to myself and my brother we are 43 and 45, my dad made other financial arrangements for our step mother, she has been left very well provided for.

Probate granted, the house is in my dads name.

Initially my stepmother did not want to be an executor she was going to remove herself but the changed her mind!going to hit the phones today to see if we can get some legal advice, my brother and I have had no contact with our step mum for the last week, emotions are running high and we don't want to make things worse.

[unclebulgaria67]

It's a truly horrible situation, the will is ver specific, the property belongs to myself and my brother we are 43 and 45, my dad mad other financial arrangements for our step mother, she has been left very well provided for.

Probate granted, the house is in my dads name.

Initially my stepmother did not want to be an executor she was going to remove herself but the changed her mind!going to hit the phones today to see if we can get some legal advice, my brother and I have had no contact with our step mum for the last week, emotions are running high and we don't want to make things worse.

 

Is there any reason to hurry with this ?

 

Perhaps allowing a few weeks time for thought, might help those involved.

 

If there is nothing legally stated to allow your stepmother to stay in the house, then once the house is registered officially to you and your brother, then the stepmother becomes a tenant. You should then be entitled to charge her rent based on market rate and issue a tenancy agreement. To see what the market rent rate would be, perhaps you need to arrange for 2 estate agents to provide a market valuation.

 

I should imagine that you would have to go through a proper process and cannot simply apply to evict her to sell the house. Going down the official rent route, might put the position on a proper footing and then later, if you need to sell, then you follow the rules on giving notice for her to move out.

 

Not an expert on this issue or have any experience. Just thoughts about a tricky situation.

[sgtbush]

What an awkward situation.

1st thing id suggest is getting another solicitor to stop conflict.

Am I right in reading that you and your brother were left the house in the will?

If so id be giving some sort of notice to quit but remember your grief and she is grieving too. Tensions are high. Maybe a 6 months notice?

[juzza999]

Thank you all, contacting a new solicitor, waiting for a call back, planned to call citizens advice bureau too.

Yes we were left the house in the will, it's been a very strange 4 months since dad died, we feel our stepmother has made some very calculated moves, there have been a couple of incidents ie moving money ( a very large amount from their joint account to an account in her name, had our house valued whilst we were on holiday without our knowledge, giving our dads things away without our knowledge) I just want it to be over and I miss my dad...

[sgtbush]

Moving money from your stepmother and fathers joint accounts are normal.

That's her money now, its a joint account and you have no say over it.

 

Having the house valued might mean she wants to.buy you out. Whilst she should of asked you maybe she is trying to do the right thing.

 

Giving away your fathers things.

Unless they were described in the will, ie pieces of jewellery etc possesion goes to spousal.

So in effect she is giving her own things away, not your fathers unless you were left the specific item in the will.

[juzza999]

Not as she is a joint trustee, the 3 of us should have been acting in unison, dads things (everything inc clothes) form part of his estate which he left in its entirety to myself and my brother, having a house valued that you have no financial stake in?? All this has been explained several times to us all by our solicitor

[sgtbush]

Yes you should all be acting in unison but grief does strange things to people.

Like I said, if she has been giving things away....

You state that everything was left to you and your brother. Then she I acting illegally.

I was suggesting things that might not of been named , even globally named.

Say an ornament or picture. I was thinking more on the lines of items of value.

But if a global naming was done then she has no right to give property away.

 

I wouldn't worry about the house as you and your brother will be named at land registry and she wont be able to sell the house from under your feet.

 

I think that's what your worried about.

 

If your ex stepmother is doing this then unfortunately id be reporting the matter to the police as its technically theft and id kick her out of the house as long as she has no financial connection to it anymore.( get that point clarified by your new solicitor)

 

Point on joint accounts. This is tricky ground as its joint money between your father and stepmother. Who is to say she paid all the money in and only gave your father access to it. Joint accounts can sometimes cost more in legal fees to sort outthan the amount in the account and often dont go the way you would think they would morally

[ericsbrother]

all items that were not part of his estate, unless specifically willed to someone else became her property upon his death so hers to keep of sell as she wishes. Her house was sold so your dad enjoyed the benefit of that by being able to afford things that otherwise he would be able to because he would have to pay a proportionally lager amount on domestic bills etc. so dont even consider trying to kick her out because that will backfire

if this all went to court you may well lose the house anyway as stepmum will have a claim upon part of it as the matrimonial home and your fathers will failing to provide for her basic needs. This will result in a massive legal bill so ask yourself, do you need the money from the house at the moment? If not allowing a tenancy as long as she wants to be there will stop any future claim against the will itself. Better off trying to agree a price for the purchase of the property and avid a legal battle that will not do any favours for anyone. that way you get your money sooner than you would if you went down the court route.

you will also avoid appearing in the papers as an object of ridicule as so many of these family disputes do.

[juzza999]

Interesting, my dad did not benefit in any way from the sale of our stepmothers house, in fact he paid for a new bathroom, new Windows new drive. The proceeds from the sale of my stepmothers house were invested in her name only.

The house they lived in at the date of his death is my family home bought outright by my mum and dad prior to my mums death 23 years ago, she has no claim on the matrimonial house, she has not paid anything towards its upkeep and in fact my father was independently wealthy he did not need income from our stepmother.

 

The sale of our family home is in line with our dads wishes, his wish was to look after his children and change our lives financially as he is not here in person to support us emotionally.

I have no intention of kicking her out as you so eloquently put it, I am trying to establish where we all stand legally.

 

I'm assuming that this is just your opinion and that you have no legal training ?

[sgtbush]

Everyone on forums have no legal training. If they did they be sending you a bill.

What they do have is experience.

So what you do is take an amalgamation of comments, pick the bits out and SEEK COUNSEL.

Then pay the bill.

 

So follow your statement in paragraph 1 post 1.

 

Desperately seeking legal advice.

 

Go see a solicitor and prepare to open your wallet.... Wide

[unclebulgaria67]

Even if legal advice were available online, i doubt it would be very clear, because they would need to see all of the paperwork.

 

Be careful with Solicitors and perhaps see at least 2 to askmwhat help they can provide, what the costs would be. Many Solicitors will offer a free half hour, just to see whether they can help or not.

[juzza999]

Thank you for clarification, as per my previous posts, I am waiting for our new solicitor to call back, I am prepared to pay for legal advice but I also like to do my homework first too.

Not sure the "attitude" is helpful or warranted from some members, whatever legal response I get I will post it so others can benefit.

Kind regards

[AndyOrch]

Thread moved to General Legal Issues Forum...please continue to post here to your thread.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[unclebulgaria67]

Thank you for clarification, as per my previous posts, I am waiting for our new solicitor to call back, I am prepared to pay for legal advice but I also like to do my homework first too.

Not sure the "attitude" is helpful or warranted from some members, whatever legal response I get I will post it so others can benefit.

Kind regards

 

Think you will see such responses, whenever people raise family dispute issues and going down the legal route. The 'attitude' is frustration that people end up in this position. Solicitors are not that keen either, even if they can earn money, because they would rather people just sat down and talked. If your Stepmother is not seeking to claim ownership of the house, based on perceived rights, perhaps she is just not ready to deal with moving on. That is why i mentioned taking time and thinking about all options e.g renting the house to her. If she had to pay rent, as well as all other bills, then it might help her think about moving on to minimise costs.

[steampowered]

I think you need to break this issue down into two separate parts. One step at a time.

 

The first problem you have is getting the house moved into the names of you and your brother in line with the will. The step mother really has no legal defence to failing to co-operate with this. If your step-mother refuses to co-operate it may be easiest to apply to court to have her removed as executor.

 

The second problem would be getting your mother to move out of the property. You will need to become the registered owners first. That would mean going through an eviction process.

 

there have been a couple of incidents ie moving money ( a very large amount from their joint account to an account in her name

I am afraid she was fully entitled to do that. When one joint owner dies, the money in a joint account automatically passes to the surviving joint owner. That money is not part of the estate and is not dealt with under the will. See https://www.gov.uk/wills-probate-inheritance/property-and-bank-accounts.

[BazzaS]

I think you need to break this issue down into two separate parts. One step at a time.

 

The first problem you have is getting the house moved into the names of you and your brother in line with the will. The step mother really has no legal defence to failing to co-operate with this. If your step-mother refuses to co-operate it may be easiest to apply to court to have her removed as executor.

 

The second problem would be getting your mother to move out of the property. You will need to become the registered owners first. That would mean going through an eviction process.

 

.........

I am afraid she was fully entitled to do that. When one joint owner dies, the money in a joint account automatically passes to the surviving joint owner. That money is not part of the estate and is not dealt with under the will. See https://www.gov.uk/wills-probate-inheritance/property-and-bank-accounts.

 

It depends.

Whose name(s) was the house titled in at the Land Registry

 

If it is both of father and stepmother then the legal title (as it is held as ‘joint tenancy’ rather than ‘tenants in common’) passes automatically to the stepmother (in the same way funds in a joint account do). She then holds it in trust for the beneficiaries, but see below.

 

Does stepmother have any other beneficial interest in the house?

You mention she is well provided for but you also mentioned that she sold her house so they could live together.

Was there any agreement made? Did the funds from her house go to them both? She might argue they had an agreement / that a ‘constructive trust’ had been created.

 

Independent legal advice (as others have noted) is key.

 

Be kind : both to yourselves and to her.

You’ve lost your Dad and she’s lost her husband.

If you can find a way to see what the issues are and reach an agreement it might make a bad situation less bad, and save you all money.

If it gets to the “both sides get lawyers, both sets of lawyers not being the solicitor who did the probate work”: costs will likely rack up.

[Guest]

juzza

you posted that stepmum has been well provided for. that shld then negate any poss financial provision claim re the property.

also, you posted that your dad owned the ppty outright, ie no joint ownership?

anyway, your new independent sol will advise you accordingly. you'll see.

 

condolences. it will take time, but things will get better over time.

 

btw sgtbush. afaik some posters on forums are indeed 'legally trained', perhaps posting to help, in one way or another, genuine people in need of help rather than asking for money

[Haunter]

Any monies in the joint account form part of your later father's estate and must be declared on the IHT form.

 

 

It depends on what the Will says as to whether the step mother is entitled to keep any monies from the joint account.

 

 

Under the Will, the property legally belongs to you and your brother, you say Grant of Probate has been awarded, this is a document of title, and the executor's of the estate must administer the estate in accordance with the Will and their statutory duties in their office.

 

 

Your step mother is not your tenant at present, when you and your brother are registered on H M Land Registry as the Title owners and you decide to charge her rent, you will become Landlord and Tennant and she will have more rights than what she does now!

 

 

The Will has been declared valid, it belongs to you and your brother, if you want to change the locks, you can, the step mother is a squatter and she is not complying with her statutory duties to administer the estate in accordance with the Will, you can apply to the High Court Chancery Division to have her removed from her office.

 

 

Haunter

[Guest]

It depends on what the Will says as to whether the step mother is entitled to keep any monies from the joint account.

not quite.

if she is joint on anything, then she will get whatever's joint despite anything in a will re.

[Haunter]

Just to clarify the legal position on this point as posted here by the OP.

The correct legal position where there is a joint account and one of the owner’s dies is as follows:

If all of the funds have in fact been provided by one of the owners, for example where the account was originally in that owner’s sole name and the other person’s name was added to the account, then all the funds continue to belong to the first owner and on his or her death, all the funds are still part of his estate. This point is often misinterpreted or overlooked completely, especially where executors under the Will have little or no experience in administration of estates, and are acting to administer the estate without professional help.

So in this case posted here, if the OP’s late father was the original owner of the account and sometime later the step mother’s name was added to it, making it a joint account, then the step mother has no claim on the funds, they would form part of the assets in the late father’s estate and must be distributed among the beneficiaries named in the Will in accordance with the terms of the Will once all liabilities have been paid.

Haunter

[Guest]

joint funds are part of a persons estate in so far as is applicable if eventually there is any liability.

but, if any accounts were joint, then joint holder wld have legit access to it prior.

and, eg a property that later has the spouse added to the title as joint. spouse is now entitled to the whole.