Caravan Blackhorse - Caravan HP problems.refund issues..**WON VIA FOS**

[Surfer01]

Our model caravan is not on their site and we thought they were making a customised front towing cover, but it is a universal one and not unique to our brand of caravan. We emailed them last Thursday and again this morning.

I was doubtful on the DSR., but as we wanted to return it within 2 days of delivery I thought we might get away with it. We stupidly listen to their persuasions to keep it and try it plus being told we could not return it anyway. Surely their return policy on a universal cover is unlawful? They state;

Unfortunately, the nature of our product means we cannot offer our customers a returns policy. In addition, if your cover has already been put into production, you may not cancel your order. If however, in the unlikely event that your cover is faulty, we will arrange for your cover to be collected and repaired, altered or replaced. If you have a query regarding your cover, you can contact our sales team on 01943 864 646 or alternatively email us at [email protected]

Surely they cannot state the above on a universal fit? If you check on here you can see the tailored one in the middle which is what we expected if the universal one was not suitable. We would have gladly paid the extra.

[raydetinu]

seems like their claiming every cover is made to order! 28day delivery so seems to bear that out.

how that would stack up with DSR for a universal fit may require a test in court!!!!

Could try trading standards or consumer direct? for opinion.

[Surfer01]

seems like their claiming every cover is made to order! 28day delivery so seems to bear that out.

how that would stack up with DSR for a universal fit may require a test in court!!!!

Could try trading standards or consumer direct? for opinion.

 

On my email to them, I gave them 7 days which expires today so if nothing by close of play today, I will contact Trading Standards.

[Surfer01]

If in the wrong forum please move to the appropriate forum. Thanks.

 

In May 2011 we purchased a front towing cover for our caravan. This prevents stone chips on the front of the caravan from stones being thrown up when travelling. We had to supply them with details of the caravan etc indicating that the cover was made especially for our type of caravan.

On arrival and before fitting the first thing I noticed that there were no see through panels for the front lights and reflectors. I contacted them immediately to complain and was given a story that the lights could be seen through the material. At the time I did not think of the reflectors which I now believe are a legal requirement on a trailer.

I told the company that we were unhappy with our purchase and that as it was within the 7 days under the DSR I wanted to cancel. I was told that as per their terms and conditions we could not as the cover was made specially for the caravan. Unfortunately I foolishly accepted this and it was only later I found out that the front towing cover was a universal fit.

During the summer we were towing in the daylight and had no issues, however now that the days are short and murky, we have discovered that on a murky day the lights are not really visible and of course the reflectors cannot be seen. At light the lights are a subdued glow, but again no reflectors visible.

We are of the opinion that the front towing cover is not fit for purpose under SOGA as it doesn't comply with the laws of the land as a trailer should have the front lights clearly visible along with the front reflectors. The cover was purchased using a debit card. What sort of action can we take now? Thanks.

[Surfer01]

Can any one confirm the law regarding trailers and their lighting? A link would be appreciated. Thanks.

[freakyleaky]

http://www.ntta.co.uk/law/trailers/lights.aspx

[Surfer01]

http://www.ntta.co.uk/law/trailers/lights.aspx

 

Thanks very useful, but that is a third party site. I am hoping for the latest actual regulation under Road Traffic Act as I will need to quote this in any correspondence. Either a link or a copy and paste.

[freakyleaky]

ah righ. ok how about this one http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989/1796/contents/made

[Nagasis]

Surfer as you bought it may 2011 how is it you didn't notice this problem last winter? Or did you mean 2012?.

[Surfer01]

Oops sorry that should be May 2012. Thanks for pointing it out.

 

I am wondering if this would be the applicable clause that I could use to raise a dispute;

 

Restrictions on the obscuration of certain obligatory lamps and reflectors19. Every vehicle shall be so constructed that at least part of the apparent surface of any–

(a)front and rear position lamp,

(b)front and rear direction indicator, and

©rear retro reflector,

which is required by these Regulations to be fitted to a vehicle is visible when the vehicle is viewed from any point directly in front of or behind the lamp or reflector, as appropriate, when every door, tailgate, boot lid, engine cover, cab or other movable part of the vehicle is in a fixed open position.

[Surfer01]

Can you send a dealer a SAR asking for all information with regards to vehicle you bought from them brand new? Actually in this case the vehicle is a caravan suffering from damp and we want to find out if they carried out a damp test at the previous service in November last year plus we need to know some other information regarding the caravan.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Not relevant a SAR relates to Personal Data only not the item purchased.

[Surfer01]

Not relevant a SAR relates to Personal Data only not the item purchased.

 

This is what I thought, however wouldn't all paperwork relate to the owner of the caravan and as that is personal date surely it can be requested. After all, we paid for the work.

We now suspect that the dealer never did a proper service and damp test on the service last year resulting in a serious damp issue which may have affected the structural integrity of the caravan. We need this report if we decide to reject the caravan under SOGA.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

I do not think the Data Protection Act 1998 has any provision for this, the only item that could possibly be produced is the invoice for the work done, it cannot provide proof that it was actually carried out.

[steampowered]

Refer to the definition of personal data here - http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/29/section/1.

 

You can only request stuff that relates to you as an individual - not things about the car.

 

The only way to force it would be to sue the dealer in county court and request the information as part of the disclosure stage of litigation (though not guaranteed the court would order you should get it).

[Crapstone]

Have you tried looking up problems with this particular caravan model or dealer? Do you have any paperwork related to the test? I can't see that SAR would help. You could have an expert look at it to see if it has been properly maintained or if it was faulty to begin with. Or ask the manufacturer, if they are still in business.

 

If you want to reject the goods then you should do just that and not do anything at all.

 

I don't know how old the caravan is or the circumstances so it's hard to say what you should do without knowing.

[Surfer01]

We have two deposit refund queries.

 

The first relates to a £200 deposit placed for an order for a new caravan.

This transaction was done over the phone about a month ago using a credit card.

 

At the very last moment we had to cancel the order due to an unexpected change of circumstances

although the dealer had taken delivery of the new caravan which was not built specifically for us.

 

Can we claim back the deposit?

 

Regarding the same caravan,

we also placed an order for £279 over the telephone about a week ago for a Phantom tracker to be installed tomorrow.

 

We phoned this morning to cancel the installation and were told that there would be a £25 call out charge

as the time was already booked by the fitter who is an individual acting on behalf of the tracking company and not employed by them.

 

Can they impose this £25 charge as they will not be attending the caravan?

 

Thanks

[Surfer01]

I am a bit disappointed that no one has been able to answer my query?

[rebel11]

Hi surfer01

 

For both transactions,

 

The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013

apply:-

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/265898/consumer-contracts-information-cancellation-and-additional-payments-regulations-2013.pdf

[BankFodder]

You must confirm your cancellation by email or letter. Your cancellation is probably not effective unless this is done

[rebel11]

If by letter send them Recorded Delivery.

[rebel11]

Hi Surfer

 

The Distance Selling Regulations have been superseded by The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013, the main changes are:-

 

• The payment point must be unambiguously prominent and clearly labelled so that it is absolutely obvious to the consumer that placing the order entails an obligation to pay
  
• You must deliver goods within 30 days, unless the consumer agrees otherwise
  
• More extensive pre-contract information must be given or made available to the consumer
  
• The cancellation period will be 14 calendar days, rather than the existing 7 working days
  
• If you fail to provide the required pre-contract information regarding cancellation, the customer’s cancellation period is extended by 1 year, rather than by the existing 3 months
  
• You must provide the consumer with a specific model cancellation form (set out in the Regulations) which they can use if they want to (but they do not have to) to cancel the contract
  
• You can withhold a refund until you have received the goods back, or the consumer has at least provided evidence that they have returned the goods – this is a benefit for traders as you cannot currently legally do this
  
• You can deduct some monies from the refund for diminished value if the goods have been excessively handled – another benefit for traders
  
• You cannot require a consumer to use a premium rate telephone number to contact you about their contract, any post-contract consumer helpline must only be at basic rate.
  

Post 3 has been amended.

[Surfer01]

Thanks Rebel. The deposit was paid over the phone at end of May 2014 for delivery 24th June and no mention of no refund if contract is cancelled. I had to chase them for the paperwork to show that I had paid a deposit. Eventually they emailed me a copy but with no T & Cs. Seems that I have good grounds for the refund.

Now the sad part. Sometime in the future I probably would like to deal with them as they do offer good deals and the sales people are generally helpful. Unfortunately an unexpected change in personal circumstances forced us to cancel at the last minute, but hopefully this is only temporary and hopefully the dealer will not give us a hard time about the refund.

[rebel11]

Just tell them you want to keep everything as amicable as possible and that when your circumstance allow in the future you will definitely consider doing business with them.

[Surfer01]

Regarding the deposits, we have had a refund back from Phantom less £25 as they state that is what they have to pay the fitter for the cancellation. Can they do this?

The caravan dealer has failed to respond and refund the £200 deposit although we followed up the verbal cancellation with a cancellation email. They do not have my signature on any piece of paper and when we made the payment, they never enclosed any T & Cs because they never posted any paperwork to us. When we did not receive any paperwork from them regarding the payment, we chased them up and they emailed a copy of the top page of the order and nothing else. On this form it does state that the deposit is non refundable, but I was not made aware of this fact.

On the top and only page copy of the order there was the equivalent of a VIN number on it for the caravan, however at a later stage we discovered that the caravan was a demonstrator model. They then got hold of another factory fresh caravan but never sent any paper work to show the change of VIN number.

I am not too sure what my next step is as dealer is not responding to emails but in all fairness emails are addressed to salesman who took the original order. Should I send them a recorded letter by snail mail requesting refund as on 26th July it will be 30 days since I advised them in writing via email of the cancellation. This is in addition to the verbal cancellation on the 24th June or should I invoke section 75 although 120 days have not passed?