Accused of data theft

[birthdayboyo]

Evening

I have recently resigned and am on garden leave

I was in commission based sales

I copied my sales data to a USB drive and left it in a cupboard at work

My employer has said I copied data and is threatening legal action but the info has never left the premises

I cannot go into work now to prove it

How can it be theft when I have not removed it from work?

[renegadeimp]

Can you elaborate more please. As for the copying data, what does the internal policies say. why did you do it?

[BazzaS]

Information (on its own!) can't be stolen, only misused.

 

Someone could steal a USB drive (so was the USB drive yours or theirs?)

Someone can misuse confidential information and be in breach of the civil law, but (absent other provisions) that is a civil wrong, not a crime ...

 

You might be accused of breaching your contract, but not of theft (of the information), as information can't be stolen.

The relevant case law is Oxford v Moss (1979) 68 Cr App Rep 183

 

What exactly are you accused of?

[birthdayboyo]

The USB drive is mine

I copied a record of my sales to date, customers names, prices, I keep a spreadsheet of all my sales it calculated sale price less cost then profit so I know how much commission I should be due

Some sales will not wash out for months, after I'm long gone so I would have no way of checking what I was owed without it

[renegadeimp]

but are you actually allowed to copy that data ? Since its technically the companys property.

[birthdayboyo]

As silly as it sounds the law states it is not their property as it's not a physical thing

Had I copied it onto a drive belonging to them and removed it outside the workplace then theft of the drive would have occurred

As only a copy was made nothing was stolen as the original still exists

There may be something in my contract (which I have never seen or signed)!

But as far as a crime being committed it has not

I guess people need to secure their data better!

No malice was intended when I copied the info it was only to be used for reference to monies owed

There are quite a few case studies where massive amounts of data were copied by old employees but were not classed as theft and thrown out of court

[stu007]

Hi

 

How long have you been employed with this company?

 

What sector does your employer cover? (financial, retail etc)

 

You say you have resigned but are on Garden Leave (suspended?) could you clarify this?

 

Did you check Company Policy, ask or get permission to copy that data to your own personal usb?

 

What is the Companies Policy on this (have you requested a copy)?

 

What Law are you refering to when you state 'the law states it is not their property as it's not a physical thing'? (post#6)

 

This seems as if the Company are following there Disciplinary Procedure but we need further clarification if this is the case.

 

Have a wee read of this ICO link: https://ico.org.uk/about-the-ico/news-and-events/news-and-blogs/2016/05/ico-warns-people-to-think-before-taking-client-records-to-a-new-company/

Edited May 20, 2017 by stu007

[BazzaS]

As noted above, OP can't face criminal charges for theft if the information was copied onto their own USB stick (due to Oxford v Moss).

 

The company could still take disciplinary action (hence the suggestion to the OP of looking at the company's policies), as well as the company seeking an injunction to prevent the OP using / sharing the data, and/or seeking damages if it has suffered losses. So, it isn't that the company can't take any action, just that a criminal prosecution for theft isn't an option.

[birthdayboyo]

Hi

At no time was I ever going to share the information with anyone else, new employer for example

I was in sales mainly commission based hence why I copied my sales figures etc

I received a letter stating they had accepted my resignation and was formally on garden leave

The letter also pointed me towards some paragraph in my contract which they stated was enclosed, no copy was enclosed!

[BazzaS]

So, ask them for a copy of the contract, or refer to the copy you already have ......

 

I ask again:

What exactly are you accused of?

and, what disciplinary or other measures are the saying they will follow?.

[birthdayboyo]

Report to police and solicitor

[BazzaS]

who will tell them : "Not theft. They may have a civil claim, but would need to identify what harm they have been caused or that you might cause" ....... in other words, what you've been told here.

 

Good to know that you've had vague threats of action from someone who doesn't know the law, and if they are saying they'll report it to a solicitor, hasn't yet checked out with the solicitor what if anything they can accuse you of!.

[sangie5952]

This is a somewhat different story than the one that you told on MSE, isn't it? Which version is the truth?

 

As you have been told on both threads,

simply because the actual information is not property and therefore cannot be stolen, does not mean that there are no consequences for taking commercial data belonging to your employer - legally, or otherwise.

 

 

The employer phoned you knowing that you had taken the files.

You confirmed it.

And they told you they would be consulting their solicitor.

What is wrong with that?

 

 

Or was the original version of this not the true one? If you take sensitive commercial data and get caught, you must expect consequences.

[BazzaS]

Any chance of the link, so O can compare the tales .......

[sangie5952]

Any chance of the link, so O can compare the tales .......

 

Do links work? The last time I tried to link to another thread on another site it scrambled! The version on MSE starts off with calmly handing in notice, the boss becoming abusive, no mention of leaving the data stick behind, no mention of threats of the police. The title of the thread is "Abusive boss". You should find it easily as it's only been the last days it was posted. I think there is more to this than we are being told.

[BazzaS]

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=72568574 Edited May 21, 2017 by honeybee13
Replaced link that didn't work for me.

[honeybee13]

Bazza, I've replaced your link, it wasn't working when I googled it. Hopefully mine does.

 

HB

[BazzaS]

Thanks HB.

 

I think it was the same problem as last time : a space gets added....

.. (last time the solution was to copy the original and delete the space, or copy it from a reply quoting the post, where the extra space doesn't show)

[king12345]

I think that as the data has not left the premises, the company can't claim any losses or theft, so no prosecution or civil claim would be possible.

 

My company handbook states that connecting personal hard drives and/or other devices to company pc is not allowed, mainly because they could contain a virus.

 

We have company issued USB stick which are not meant to leave the premises, so once used you need to keep it in your locker.

In this case, if the rules are similar to my company, the only thing you have done wrong is to use your own USB stick.

The data never left the premises, so it is secure.

 

I guess that it would be worse if you had printed it, because then copies could have been made.

I always wonder how companies are supposed to preserve data when any employee could take pictures of the pc screen on their phone, unless they barred phones from the workstations.

 

Anyhow, you have left the company and the data was not compromised, so no criminal or civil claim would be possible.

[sangie5952]

Yes, I would tend to agree.

 

 

Since the data stick appears not to have left the premises

- which is a reason why the correct version is important

- then the OP does not have the files in their possession and can swear to that fact.

 

 

They downloaded them for some company issue, and when they left the files were, quite rightly, left behind. With the employer. So that is simple

- just tell the employer that and the matter is closed.

 

 

Of course, if the were taken off premises, then no matter what the OP says, the employer is likely to want assurances about their commercial data. Which is perfectly reasonable.

 

 

I can't see why the OP doesn't see that.

Unless, of course, they are not telling the entire truth, and the conversation went along the lines of

"pay what you owe or I'll release the files to your competitors".

 

 

Because that would be a very different kettle of fish. But it all seems to be a storm in a teacup which the OP can easily diffuse.

[sangie5952]

Thanks HB.

 

I think it was the same problem as last time : a space gets added...... (last time the solution was to copy the original and delete the space, or copy it from a reply quoting the post, where the extra space doesn't show)

You'd think there'd be something simple in life, wouldn't you?!

[determindator]

Good post King. Hope you receive any commission owing Birthdayboy and you get the job you want soon.

[dx100uk]

You'd think there'd be something simple in life, wouldn't you?!

 

 

its done on purpose

because if we blindly allow links

just think of the implications should that be one that infects a downloaders PC...

 

 

dx

[sangie5952]

its done on purpose

because if we blindly allow links

just think of the implications should that be one that infects a downloaders PC...

 

 

dx

Oh I wasn't complaining. I understand some sites have different protocols and have good reason for whatever they are.