Access Egress and Turning on a private road

[Kim SJP]

There are two points to my query, I will try to be both accurate and to the point.

 

 

Our property that we purchased 10 years ago is at the end of a private road.

 

We own 80% of the turning point and one side of the road which is outside a house that has just been sold 'subject to contract'.

 

Our other immediate neighbour owns the other side of the road outside their own house.

 

We have had words with the neighbour who is selling when we moved in as they would park on our private bit of road.

 

We use our piece of road to park two of our vehicles, and we bought the house as it had enough parking, indeed it was sold to us as with additional parking for 3 vehicles.

 

The property being sold has no on street parking (Although they could park on the other side of the house on the main street and enter their property from the garden entrance).

 

Outside their garage is a small driveway, of which half is designated as part of the turning point.

This is only marked by a tar line down the wall between our garage and theirs as the previous owners refused to allow it to be marked out on the floor.

Their bit is obviously the other 20% of the turning bay.

 

Planning permission for our house and our other neighbours house was subject to this turning point when the property being sold 'sold off' our plots of land in 1980.

 

We have a copy of the original plans to prove this.

 

Our concern is two fold.

The new owners will have access and egress over our private road

- no issue there

- however, from what we have seen of them visiting the property they own multiple vehicles including a large work van.

 

The only way they will be able to park these vehicles is if either

D a) they block the turning point

- and it is already too narrow so there will be no turning at all and involve reversing down the whole street.

Or b) they knock down the front wall and turn the garden behind into parking

(similar has been done the other end of the street, but that house owns the road in front of their house).

 

If that was the case, our cars would still block access to their front garden

- or would they have the right of access and egress across our parking spaces?

 

Currently the parking spaces are not marked with white lines - we intend to rectify that next weekend as I feel we need a visual obvious sign that we park there.

 

We have briefly spoke to them,

just to say hello,

when they were viewing and they were very 'off'

- so the neighbour has obviously told them we have an issue with parking.

 

They also were quite pointedly saying that our cars were not going to be parked outside their house for much longer!

Not to us, but loud enough for us to overhear.

 

I did at that point attempt to point out that we are parked on our own property

- but the lady walked off very rudely without even replying.

 

I have spoke to the estate agents to ensure they are notified of the turning point but we just got a solicitors letter from the person selling stating that as turning areas are not on land registry they do not have to notify the purchasers.

 

I can see problems and want to be in a position to avert as easily as possible as life is much easier if we get along.

 

I also feel they should be made aware of restrictions before they complete their purchase.

[unclebulgaria67]

Think you need to see what your house deeds say in regard to this private road and if it helps you, pass a copy to the neighbours that have a problem with your parking. If you own the land where you are parking and there are no conditions regarding parking, then you can mark it off with your house name/number. There is probably a legal process to register rights with land registry, but no doubt that would incur various fees.

 

From what i have come across before, if you own a private road, you also own the responsibility to pay for maintenance. If you live off the road, but don't own the road, then you only have rights to use the road to access your property and not to park on it.

 

I agree that if an Estate Agent becomes aware of something, they should make the puchasers aware that there is an issue for them to look into.

[king12345]

You have to make sure the new owners are aware of these conditions.

 

Write to the estate agent and ask the name of the solicitor dealing with the conveyance.

N

They are obliged to disclose these matters to the people making the offer or they could be held liable (along with the seller) once the property is sold.

 

If I well remember there was a thread here about someone who bought a house thinking of having a shared drive when in fact that drive belonged to next door people who fenced it off after sale.

 

Apparently the new buyer was not informed that their drive had been used to build a side extension and the next door neighbour had let the owner use the drive.

This doesn't mean that there's any right of passage.

 

In your case

I would try to contact the buyer's solicitor and if this is impossible, paint lines and place temporary fence (you can rent them).

 

Also you could explain to the estate agent (in writing) that if they don't pass these relevant information to the buyer you will report them to the ombudsman.

 

Submit all the evidence you have to them so they won't be able to say that they didn't know about it.

[Kim SJP]

Many thanks for replies so far. Our deeds show that we own the road but that the property has right to access and egress. What I don't know is if this gives them the right to drive over our parking if they remove their boundary wall, or if it's just via their original entrance. With regards to the turning point I don't know how to enforce it if the new owners decide to ignore it. I presume the council would prosecute them for non-compliance or at least issue parking tickets.... but would they?

[ericsbrother]

right of access is just that, not a parking right. This cuts both ways though, you cannot park in such a manner that affects their right to access their property so on ething you will need to check is whether this right of access is for teh people or for vehicles as well.

The council wont be interested, no-one will be prosecuted and no parking tickets can be issued as it is not a matter covered by the Road Traffic Act. If they do park you will have to go to court and get an injunction to prevent them from continuing to do so. This will cost you around £8000 but when it is granted they will have to pay your costs as well as obey it or risk being held in contempt of court. Your best bet is to find out from the estate agents who their solicitors are and pay for a solicitor to send them a letter pointing out that there is a condition on this land andthat theym may not have been told about it but you will be enforcing it. Reason I say pay a solicitor to do this is that way the wording will be correct and the solicitor will have some liability protection if your current neighbour kicks off if the new people then pull out of the purchase

[king12345]

You said that the turning point was a specific condition issued by the council when the plans were submitted.

If at any point this conditions are altered, the council can get involved and send their enforcement team to investigate.

If they block the turning point the council can issue them a non compliance letter and if they ignore it the council would be more than happy to fine them.

Not their car because as said this has nothing to do with rta, but under the planning rules.

It is the same as when new driveways are built following applications for dropped kerb.

Some councils impose the construction of an area for recycling boxes and wheelie bins.

People who then get rid of this area have been given a non compliance letter and then fined.

[ericsbrother]

property 10 years old, council wont be imposing anything as condition is probably derelict in their eyes after 6 years. It is for the OP to enforce and not rely on anyone else

[king12345]

property 10 years old, council wont be imposing anything as condition is probably derelict in their eyes after 6 years. It is for the OP to enforce and not rely on anyone else

 

I think that's incorrect.

I was quoted a planning application granted in 1998 (i wasn't in this house at the time) when we wanted to extend the side extension further and one of the conditions was that no structure permanent or semipermanent would be built 6 foot from the front of the house.

If I went ahead and built anything there they would surely do something, otherwise why keep records?

[BazzaS]

I think that's incorrect.

I was quoted a planning application granted in 1998 (i wasn't in this house at the time) when we wanted to extend the side extension further and one of the conditions was that no structure permanent or semipermanent would be built 6 foot from the front of the house.

If I went ahead and built anything there they would surely do something, otherwise why keep records?

 

Perhaps because enforcement of a breach of planning permission is a WAY different kettle of fish to enforcement of parking on a private road!.

Trying to link the two just isn't helpful.

[ericsbrother]

this is a covenant or easment not a planning issue. It would have been a planning issue when the house was built but time has passed. If you did a loft conversion in the 1980's you wouldnt need PP or even building control regs but now try selling that house without it. You cant apply retrospectively as the law wasnt applicable but mortgage co's want paperwork or they dont lend the money.

 

In the OP's case they want the buyer to be aware that there are things governing the use of a space that the seller has decided not to tell them about and although the searches should pick up on this they may well be told that it isnt enforced or some other agreement is in place and accept that at face value.

 

Now the OP needs to protect their interests and to that end cant rely on a hope so better to get it right first time rather than leave things until it becomes a problem and then find out that the only solution is the expensive one becasue the council cant help

Edited January 25, 2017 by honeybee13
Paras.

[king12345]

this is a covenant or easment not a planning issue. It would have been a planning issue when the house was built but time has passed. If you did a loft conversion in the 1980's you wouldnt need PP or even building control regs but now try selling that house without it. You cant apply retrospectively as the law wasnt applicable but mortgage co's want paperwork or they dont lend the money.

 

In the OP's case they want the buyer to be aware that there are things governing the use of a space that the seller has decided not to tell them about and although the searches should pick up on this they may well be told that it isnt enforced or some other agreement is in place and accept that at face value.

 

Now the OP needs to protect their interests and to that end cant rely on a hope so better to get it right first time rather than leave things until it becomes a problem and then find out that the only solution is the expensive one becasue the council cant help

 

Absolutely, that's why i suggested to get in touch with the buyer solicitor at all costs.

The council intervention would be an avenue to explore if the new owner moves in and blocks the turning point.

[king12345]

Perhaps because enforcement of a breach of planning permission is a WAY different kettle of fish to enforcement of parking on a private road!.

Trying to link the two just isn't helpful.

 

The records are with planning department, not street management, unless op tells us otherwise.

Two separate things that nobody is linking.