Alliance ANPR PCN - Lease Car - Appeals Refused - Daymer Bay Cornwall

[ELLE17]

In July this year, we parked briefly in Daymer Bay carpark in Cornwall, but as it was very windy we decided to go elsewhere. We looked at.alternate options and left. We thought we were there no more than 10 minutes.

We did not see the sign (on the passengers side of the entrance) as we entered the carpark as it was obscured by the attendant who had ushered us inside. And we did not look at any carpark signs because we did not believe that we needed to pay as we were only there a short while.

A week later, I received a charge for £100 (£70 if I pay straight away) from Alliance Parking. The letter included photos taken at entry and exit 18 minutes apart which surprised us. We were totally unaware of the camera or the rules on the day and would not have expected a carpark to require payment from the moment of entry without issuing a ticket from a barrier gate.  

I replied we did not see the sign on entry as it had been obscured and offered to pay £1 as that was the amount I would’ve paid had I been aware of the rules. They declined my offer. I write again using a letter written with the help of another action group. Again it was rejected.   I then wrote to the independent appeals service as instructed.  The letter I received back from them said that the IAS had been shown photos of plenty of clear signs in the carpark and they upheld the charge.  I wrote back asking them to send these photos to me so I can see but they did not respond.  

We don’t remember seeing any signs I spoke to a taxi driver in a nearby town and asked him to visit the car park on my behalf and take photos of all the signs. There were only two signs there, not the many that the IAS said there were.  Since then I have been extremely busy and have not had a chance to write again.

But I have now have received a final demand for payment from Alliance Parking for £100 with the threat of going to court, paying more money and possibly getting a ccj. Part of me feels like I should just pay £100 rather than face a court case about this . But I feel that I have proof that the IAS is not an independent body at all.

What would you recommend I do?

Are there any cases where drivers can win?  

[honeybee13]

Hi.

There are lots of cases where we've advised motorists and they've won. Have a read of our successes forum later.

For now though, could you let us have the information requested in the forum sticky please? Then we can start helping.

In the meantime, please don't communicate with Alliance any more, it's a waste of your time. PPCs hardly ever cancel tickets and you could give them details that would help them and not you.

Do they know who was driving on the day?

Here's the sticky.

HB

[Nicky Boy]

1 hour ago, ELLE17 said:

But I have now have received a final demand for payment from Alliance Parking for £100 with the threat of going to court, paying more money and possibly getting a ccj.

Could you upload a copy of this as well please ELLE?

Just need to be sure whether or not it's a letter of claim / letter before action.

Apart from the entry signage and the pay station immediately after, (which you missed because of a parking attendant) There are only 4 other signs. If you turned right after entering the car park, you could easily miss them as thy are mainly oriented along the far beach exits of the car park.

I'm assuming you probably didn't even get out of the car because of the weather?

Take a wander with Google spyview here (updated in October this year)...

https://www.google.com/maps/@50.562089,-4.9247926,3a,75y,257.2h,92.01t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1soJwUaPj-H-KHGfH2C_Y4Vw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

 

[dx100uk]

it is not a FINE.

word charged to charge where applicable above.

stop writing to all and sundry as you've now outed in writing the ID of the driver and removed any legal protection you had under POFA2012.

sit on your hands now until or unless you ever get a letter of claim with a reply pack wanting things like I&C etc.

then tell us FIRST before you respond, which you must to a PAPLOC.

can you scan up to one mass multipage PDF everything in or out, all letters (bothsides) from day one.

next time NEVER EVER APPEAL.

thread title updated.

dx

 

[ELLE17]

Hi

I have tried to answer the questions but it seems I am unable to copy and paste into this window for some reason!  

Also, the PDF I put together with all the documents is over 10Mb. 

Is there another way I can get this to you? 

The demand notice says I must pay by 18th December so I would like to understand what to do before then.

Thank you

 

 

 

[Nicky Boy]

Try this online PDF compressor...

Compress PDF files online for free

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[dx100uk]

13 minutes ago, ELLE17 said:

I would like to understand what to do before then.

toward them...nothing!

2 hours ago, dx100uk said:

sit on your hands now until or unless you ever get a letter of claim with a reply pack wanting things like I&C etc.

 

[ELLE17]

Thanks - here are the answers

For PCN's received through the post [ANPR camera capture]

Please answer the following questions.

1 Date of the infringement 3rd July 2023

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 7th July 2023

3 Date received 12th July 2023 (emailed to me from my Leasing Company)

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] Yes. I appealed both directly to Alliance Parking and then to Independent Appeals Service.

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up Yes – see attached responses

7 Who is the parking company? Alliance Parking

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Daymer Bay Car Park, Cornwall
For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. IAS

If you have received any other correspondence,  please mention it here

Firstly,

please note that I am not the Registered Keeper as I lease the car from a Car Leasing company. They forwarded the Parking Charge Notice to me and also sent me a letter confirming that I was in charge of the vehicle at the time and allowed me to communicate with Alliance Parking.

After receiving the response from IAS I felt like they were not properly reading our reasons for not paying – ie that we had no idea we needed to pay as we were not staying and we did not see signage on entry to the car park explaining what the rules are as the sign had been obscured by the attendant who was ushering us into the car park.

I have never parked in a car park that demands payment if you don’t stay without issuing you a ticket first. And if a ticket had been issued on entry explaining the rules then we would have left straight away as we were not planning on staying due to the poor weather conditions.

This is an unfair and unreasonable request to ask for such an extortionate charge when the parking costs were only £1 per hour!

This has been explained in the various letters I have written to Alliance Parking and the IAS and it has
been completely ignored!

And here are all the documents in a reduced size PDF as outlined above - thanks to Nickyboy for suggesting the use of the file compressor!  

Thanks 

Laoise

 

PCN responses and appeals re Alliance Parking.pdf

[Nicky Boy]

Thanks,

Important thing is that their last missive wasn't a letter before claim.

As DX says, just sit tight for now...

And read around this sub forum so you know the type of people you're dealing with.

You sound pretty sharp, just spotting that the IAS is simply a kangaroo court...

[Nicky Boy]

Heck of an appeal to IAS by the way...

You been taking advice from elsewhere by any chance?

[dx100uk]

6 hours ago, ELLE17 said:

I write again using a letter written with the help of another action group

 

[Nicky Boy]

Ah, missed that one...

You'd be better off sticking with one set of advice Elle.

Things can get messy trying to ride two horses...

[dx100uk]

opps!!

Quote

I am the Vehicle Driver responding to the parking charge notice

bye bye any POFA2012 protection... outed yourself as the driver.

this is why these 'other sites' are sOOO... dangerous!

most purposefully allow members to help 'mugs' write these appeals, cause they KNOW it will result in a court claim..then they PM the person offering their help to defend the claim in court, typical costs for their 'expert help' are approx £160.

 

[honeybee13]

It's OK Elle, we've all messed up on this kind of stuff. Stick with us, the guys will know what to do.

HB

[ELLE17]

I wish I had found you guys first! 

[honeybee13]

Yes, it's a shame but we are where we are. We've seen worse.

HB

[lookinforinfo]

You showed us the original PCN that was sent to the Lease company. What we need to see is the PCN they sent to you some days or weeks later. It should be headed Notice to hirer and should have included the original PCN plus the lease agreement and confirmation fro the Lease company that you have agreed to being responsible for any motoring breaches incurred while leasing the vehicle.

All we need to see is the later PCN and your confirmation that you received the other documents. 

[FTMDave]

Do you know the history of the IAS?

Originally there was just one parking trade association with one appeals body.  The appeals body was half decent and often cancelled tickets.

This was completely unacceptable to the worst of the private parking companies.  The two directors of the firm of solicitors most involved with parking cases at the time set up a rival trade association the IPC with its appeals body the IAS - all run by the same two people.  Yes, the trade association, the appeals body and the solicitors' firm who got the parking work - all run by the same people!  No conflict of interest there!

To call the IAS a kangaroo court is a vast understatement.  If you had proof you were in prison in Australia at the time of the offence and the car in question had been demolished 10 years ago they would still find a way to say it was your fault.

But as HB says, all of us in this forum have made mistakes when in legal dispute.  We all have to live & learn.  The important thing is to learn from the mistake and get it right next time.

 

 

 

.

[ELLE17]

Hi again

I have received a Letter of Claim for the parking ticket from Alliance Parking regarding the PCN I received from inadvertently parking at Daymer Bay car park last summer.  I received this letter at the start of the year and it was dated 28th December.  But I had so much other stuff going on over the last month I just got too stressed to deal with this as well.

Is there anything I can do about it?

In the meantime I have received another parking ticket in November, this time from a pub car park I have been to many times in the past but just not for a while.  I did not realise that they had now introduced parking charges with Euro Car Parks and I didnt notice any signs when I entered the car park or when I left.  So I was completely shocked when I received another PCN.  I did nothing and then received a Final Notification Letter on 20th January.

I would really appreciate some help with sorting these out as they have really caused me so much stress!

Thank you in advance

Laoise

 

[dx100uk]

snotty letter time and pretty quick too

you've missed the 30 days time limit already 

plenty here already to base your on.

pop it up so we can check it.

 

please create a new topic for the new speculative invoice.

dx

 

[ELLE17]

Thanks DX

The Letter of Claim for Alliance Parking was sent on 28th December.  So would it be a good time to send a snotty letter now?

I will take a look round and see if there are any letters that might be helpful.

And I will start a new Thread for the Euro Parks one.

Thank you

Laoise

[dx100uk]

sorry yes just noticed.

you need to get a snotty letter off tomorrow.

you've missed the 30 days but that wont matter.

lots of mistakes being made in this issue by you.

you'll need to seriously smarten up your act cause if this goes to court, ignoring letters and dead lines will be fatal and will cost you +£257 and you'll get a court judgement - A ccj against you on your credit file for 6yrs and that will absolutely kill your credit rating and you wont be able get more credit and what you have will be more expensive.

[lookinforinfo]

I wrote on post 18 for you to post three documents that should have been sent to you along with the original PCN . So far you have not sent them which is disappointing for you since if they haven't received them you are not liable to pay that PCN  regardless of admitting who was driving.

So could you kindly post up what you received  and let us know what you didn't receive.  So the PCN you were sent [not the one that  Leaseplan was sent]; your contract with Leaseplan covering the relevant parking period  plus your ageement that you are responsible for paying traffic violations.

[ELLE17]

Hi - these are the documents I was originally sent from my Lease company regarding this PCN (redacted)

 

[lookinforinfo]

Thank you for sending those documents but they are not the ones that we need.

What we need is all the paperwork that Alliance sent you when they first wrote to you. The Lease company are not in conflict with you-Alliance is and thy have to send certain documents to you in order to comply with the protection of Freedoms Act 2012 which is the Act relating to private parking.

If they fail to comply with the Act you are not liable to pay them a penny. You have two PCNs and on neither of them have we seen the paperwork that have been received by you fom the parking companies and what has not been received. Until we get them we are in the dark as to your chances of winning iin Court.

Usually parking companies mess up with leased vehicles but perhaps they are learning now which is why  we do need to know your situation on both PCNs .