Backdoor CCJ CEL PCN - UCLan teaching hosp

[WesMcDermott]

Good afternoon,

I'm looking for some advice on what to do in my situation.

I received a CCJ on my credit file, which turned out to be from Civil Enforcement Ltd, regarding an apparent PCN received on 23/11/2016. I only found this after a routine check of my credit file, and the CCJ was issued on 23/01/2023. The CCJ claim amount is £320.82, including interest. I have also just received a letter from Debt Collections Bailiffs Ltd, wanting a total of £444.07 to settle.

Looking at the CCJ, it appears the claimant has used an old address we have not lived at since Feb 2016. We've been at our current address for 4 years and two other addresses for the prior 3 years.

I have been in contact with the CCBC and the PCN shows a TIME IN: 00:00 TIME OUT: 23:59 which in itself seems strange to me. I can't remember the situation around this with it being so long ago.

Thank you for any help.

[dx100uk]

nothing DCBL can do IGNORE THEM. its under £600. 

£320? that sounds like more that one speculative invoice to me.

so why did you not receive the 10's of letters and (both) the letter of claim nor the initial claim.? or did you ignore everything?

have you moved in recent times and not informed the DVLA of your cars correct registered keepers address via the V5C?

you need to ring northants bulk and ask for a copy of the judgement CCJ and the claimform particulars of claim by email pdf.

you could set it aside but thats anything from £108 to £275 and you've no guarantee of winning..

 

[Jenny21]

If you weren't aware of the hearing you can apply to the court to get the ccj removed  by filling in a form and paying £275 (you can get that back if the ccj is wiped) 

The court will typically wipe the ccj but arrange a new hearing for you to defend against the ticket, so the  you'll need to ask civil enforcement for their evidence, so that you can assess your defence and orepare for trial, or settle the claim without getting a ccj. 

[dx100uk]

urm...not 100% correct there

its not as simple as that, you dont automatically get a CCJ removed just because you file an N244 set aside application....esp if you did not advise the claimant of a change of address or ignore everything inc the claimform.

you also have to give a basic defence for the claimant original particulars of claim and regarding most speculative invoice defences,  any paperwork wriggles typically used are now out the window....the CCJ trumps them.

dx

 

[WesMcDermott]

Thank you both for your help.

Dx - we haven't received anything at all. Our old address is on the CCJ, an address we haven't lived at since 2016. We've not had the car in question since 2019, and DVLA would have the details of this. The CCJ is dated 23/01/2023.

The DCBL letter was in relation to this CCJ, and came shortly after I noticed the CCJ on my credit file. 

I'm presuming it's an accumulation of interest that has caused the invoice to be so high. As I said, it was from a PCN in 2016. 

Come to think of it, would this not be statute barred? 

Edited July 31, 2023 by dx100uk
unnecessary previous post quote removed

[Nicky Boy]

"I have been in contact with the CCBC and the PCN shows a TIME IN: 00:00 TIME OUT: 23:59 which in itself seems strange to me."

How much information / documentation do you have on this?

When was the PCN issued and when was the claim issued?

[WesMcDermott]

Just an email from the CCBC that lays out the basics of the claim. It's one of the UCLAN car parks, where my partner was a student nurse, and it would have been 9am - 4pm approx. The car would not have been parked there all day from midnight - midnight.

Edited July 31, 2023 by dx100uk
unnecessary previous post quote removed

[dx100uk]

type out the particulars of claim please from the claimform and what date is on it top right?

if it was issued before 11/2022 it cant be statute barred

dx

 

[WesMcDermott]

I don't have a claimform, just an email from the CCBC, but they detail the particulars (see below). Apologies for the caps, this is how it's displayed in the email.

1. CLAIM FOR MONEY RELATING TO A PARKING CHARGE FOR BREACH OF CONTRACT TERMS/CONDITIONS(TCS) FOR PARKING IN PRIVATE CAR PARK (CP) MANAGED BY CLAIMANT.

2. DRIVERS MAY ONLY PARK PURSUANT  TO TCS OF USE DISPLAYED IN CP AND AGREED UPON ENTRY/PARKING.

3. ANPR CAMERAS OR MANUAL PATROLS MONITOR VEHICLES ENTERING/EXITING THE CP AND TC BREACHES.

CHARGES OF GBP216.00 CLAIMED.  

VIOLATION DATE: 23/11/2016                  

PAYMENT DUE DATE: 22/12/2016                

TIME IN: 00:00 TIME OUT: 23:59              

PCN: xx                       

VEHICLE REG MARK: xx

CAR PARK:-UCLAN - GREENBANK                                                                         TOTAL DUE- GBP216.00                        

(PAY:WWW.CE-SERVICE.CO.UK OR 01158225020)   

THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS THE SUM OF GBP320.82 FOR THE UNPAID PARKING CHARGE

INC GBP104.82  INTEREST UNDER S.69 OF THE CCA 1984  RATE: 8.00% PA FROM DUE DATE TO- 16/12/22    SAME RATE TO JUDGMENT OR SOONER PAYMENT  AT DAILY RATE OF- GBP0.05 TOTAL DEBT AND INTEREST DUE- GBP320.82 

[FTMDave]

Well that explains the high amount - they've included £104.82 interest.

99% of backdoor CCJs we get here is because people moved, did not update the vehicle details promptly with the DVLA, and so the paperwork went to an old address.

So you moved in February 2016.  The fleecers sent their invoice in November 2016.  Presumably if you got on to the DVLA you could see when the vehicle details were updated?

[WesMcDermott]

@FTMDave i'm not sure when they would have been updated from our initial move in 2016. I don't own the car anymore. It was sold in March 2020. Is it possible to get that info now?

Surely it's not hard for these people to find our current address! We've been here for four years. It didn't take long for DCBL to get involved - they managed to find our address easily enough! 

Edited July 31, 2023 by WesMcDermott

[FTMDave]

I've just tried to go through the DVLA automatic process, and got nowhere.

However, you can write to them  https://contact.dvla.gov.uk/vehicle/capture_personal_information?locale=en

 

[FTMDave]

1 hour ago, WesMcDermott said:

Come to think of it, would this not be statute barred? 

From previous experience, what is likely to have happened is this.

With the statue bar date coming up, the fleecers sent a Letter of Claim to your old address, hoping you had moved and wouldn't answer.

Indeed they were right.

A few days before the anniversary of their "payment due date" of 22.12.2016 they issued the claim form and later judgement on 23.01.2023.

However, SB is something to look into.  Did CCBC give you the date the claim was issued?

28 minutes ago, WesMcDermott said:

Surely it's not hard for these people to find our current address! We've been here for four years. It didn't take long for DCBL to get involved - they managed to find our address easily enough! 

They didn't want to send the claim to your new address.  They are charlatans and were out to win by default.

[WesMcDermott]

@FTMDave - I only have the judgement date from my credit file—no info on the date of the claim. 

Will the copy of the judgement CCJ from the CCBC have the claim date on? @dx100uk

[dx100uk]

no you need to ring northants bulk again and ask the date on the claimform.

but i suspect they were in time, its CEL they are a master at doing just this for that express purpose, hope people have moved and leave it for max interest gain..

sadly i know this sounds odd but if its not SB'd you might just as well pay it, sad thing is it wont remove the ccj and even a satisfied ccj is as bad as an unsatisfied one to creditors.

you might want to review your debts on your file too, (or Not) as if there are debts that you left after you moved you might be in danger of a consumer credit backdoor ccj.s.

dont respond to dcbl either. or anyone yet regarding this ccj

dx

 

[dx100uk]

1 hour ago, WesMcDermott said:

INTEREST UNDER S.69 OF THE CCA 1984  RATE: 8.00% PA

is poss a typo mistake, -  a speculative invoice is not  covered by the CCA but court int at 8% simple pa. 

dx

 

 

[brassnecked]

You are not dealing with honest brokers here.

[FTMDave]

Check with the DVLA and the CCBC tomorrow.

Just ask the DVLA on which date vehicle XXXXX had its logbook address changed from XXXXX to XXXXX.

You might as well e-mail the fleecers and suggest a set aside by consent.  They are 95% likely to say no or to ignore you, but nothing ventured ...  I've looked on their site and found an e-mail address  [email protected]

Dear CEL,

Re: Claim form no.XXXXX, PCN no.XXXXX, VRN XXXXX (I presume you only have the last one, but put as many references as you can),

I refer to the "backdoor CCJ" you obtained against me on 23 January 2023.

In one week's time, 8 August, I will be applying to the court to set aside judgement.

It is clear that you deliberately issued court papers to an address you knew full well I no longer lived at.  As soon as you got the CCJ, DCBL were able to find me at the right address soon enough!

I am therefore writing to enquire whether you would agree to a set aside by consent, in order to keep costs down for both parties.

In the absence of your agreement, I will apply to the court directly and request that the court order you to pay the £275 fee due to your abuse of process.

Yours, XXXXX