The European Union.....In or Out?

[maroondevo52]

wld you be up for another scot ind vote?

some asked on 5live said no to that, even though they voted remain.

 

No we've had one, can't see why we'd need another I'd still vote to be part of the UK

[obiter dictum]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/26/fightback-against-brexit-on-cards-remain-eu-referendum-heseltine?CMP=fb_gu

[unclebulgaria67]

Good article explaining whether Brexit can be stopped.

 

http://www.smh.com.au/world/can-brexit-be-overturned-what-brits-are-asking-each-other-20160625-gprz3u.html

[tobyjugg2]

Lord Heseltine had just spoken on breakfast live.

 

Worth listening too to.

 

Said more in a few words than Osbourne did in his waffle.

 

Petition votes already close to UKIPS election votes total

3,577,612 vs 3,881,099

[unclebulgaria67]

Boris Johnson is saying something that many leave voters will disagree with i.e right of free movement will most likely continue as part of the new arrangement with the EU.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36637037

 

This is the problem. The leave campaigners did not hold the same views about the UK after Brexit. This is the reason the referendum cannot be binding on parliament, because people did not know what they were voting for. Once the discussions take place about the way forward, there will be arguments between all the various sides. You cannot trigger article 50, when you do not have a government backed by parliament who are authorised to start negotiations with the EU.

 

Cameron wanted to solve his parties problems with the EU, but all he has done is thow a grenade and then decided to walk away from the rebuilding work. He has ended up in a mess that should have been thought about.

[tobyjugg2]

Boris Johnson is saying something that many leave voters will disagree with i.e right of free movement will most likely continue as part of the new arrangement with the EU.

 

 

and as heseltine has just said, the negotiations MUST be by those who drove Brexit else they will simply DISOWN any result.

 

as they are already doing with their claims on the reasons and benefits to Brexit.

[Consumer dude]

Osborne has stated on LBC radio that he respects the result of the EU referendum..

[tobyjugg2]

Lets also not forget that how France and Germany have decided to address this issue (as they apparently have) may be a massive game changer in any direction.

 

Even those decidedly pro-euro like myself may change their stance once the plans are announced,

although no-one expects the fanatical leavers to change their rhetoric whatever happens.

 

 

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-16-2328_en.htm

 

http://www.lisbon-treaty.org/wcm/the-lisbon-treaty/treaty-on-European-union-and-comments/title-6-final-provisions/137-article-50.html

 

http://www.lisbon-treaty.org/wcm/the-lisbon-treaty/treaty-on-the-functioning-of-the-european-union-and-comments/part-5-external-action-by-the-union/title-5-international-agreement/506-article-218.html

 

 

 

Its seems clearly interpretable that no negotiations take place until after article 50 notification is made.

 

 

This would be (in war/business) the best stance for europe to take in my opinion, leaving all the cards in their hands:

 

UK still bound by EU law and regs

Still have to pay dues

No place at the decision table

Special deal void

[unclebulgaria67]

Osborne has stated on LBC radio that he respects the result of the EU referendum..

 

I respect people who believe in Father Christmas, but it does not mean i will do anything with their Christmas list when they place it by their chimney.

 

When politicians say they respect something, it is code for meaning they will take it into account. The referendum is not binding on politicians to lead the UK out of the EU whatever the consequences.

[tobyjugg2]

Interesting that Osbourbe can make £250 BILLION available to support the private massively paid banking sector from Brexit jitters (not just privatised banks) yet cant find just a few billion to build a UK nuclear reactor and boost the NHS.

 

(many of these bankers rumbling about leaving the Brexit UK)

[tobyjugg2]

Easyjet revises projections down 5% (pretty bang in as predicted in my higher posts)

 

for those who only speak English

 

https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://www.france24.com/fr/20160627-le-brexit-pousse-easyjet-a-reviser-a-baisse-previsions-fin-lannee&prev=search

 

 

and clearing (bank sector) likely to move to Frankfurt

No easily understandable link yet

[tobyjugg2]

Oh - just re-affirm a prediction

 

Carbuncle will not go quietly or willingly, no matter what cost to Party or nation.

He will drive his own personal agenda no matter the cost to anything or anyone.

 

Corbyn is a greater danger to the UK in or out than ANY other single person.

 

and I have been a labour voter (as generally the lessor of many evils) almost my entire life.

[unclebulgaria67]

Corbyn will go within weeks, because he will never be able to obtain support of the parliamentary Labour party. There will be a leaders contest and as soon as he realises it is pointless him winning again, he would withdraw. He just does not have the skills to be leader of a party and has views which clash with most of English voters.

[Tawnyowl]

Just been looking at a couple of videos by Chunky Mark.His view of things.Everyone has them and everyone is concerned.

Utter confusion for many.

 

EUReferendum - the Apocalypse begins with hate as vulture capitalist look to profit from your doom

 

Nihilism Jeremy Corbyn the punching itself in the face Labour party and the Carry on Brexit rabble

 

Second referendum petition: Inquiry removes at least 77,000 fake signatures, as hackers claim responsibility for 'prank'

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/26/concern-as-online-call-for-second-brexit-vote-gains-more-than-39/

 

And where some of these votes have come from,well what can you say.

I am waiting for the chosen ones to arrive,i trust no one now in politics,suppose i am in a vacuum lost.

Do not trust bankers,big business anything at the moment.Do you.?

[Consumer dude]

Petitions can not and will not take the place of the ballot box and as far as the doom merchants are concerned, it really is best to ignore them and in true British style, keep calm and carry on..

[determindator]

Prediction, and unlike my well above average knowledge of middle east issues, this is purely educated guess work, and could be very very wrong.

 

38% for Brexit.

 

Very different to the polls I know.

 

48% in 52% out overall result however considerable variations nationwide.

 

Younger generation should have engaged more so really can't moan if you don't vote.

 

Cornwall shows how the regions have different needs.

 

If a political party wants support from the people they have to stand up for reasons the people find important like building more homes which are really affordable for buying and for renting in the housing association and Council sectors.

[Tawnyowl]

Petitions can not and will not take the place of the ballot box and as far as the doom merchants are concerned, it really is best to ignore them and in true British style, keep calm and carry on..

 

I feel that is a fair statement.

Keep calm and carry on,no use sitting here waiting for god knows what to happen.

 

Business to do,good heavens i am so glum today.I do not do down thoughts and feelings for long.Got to rise above it like a Phoenix as we all must do.

Wherever that may lead us.

 

And it is clear on this thread everyone who posts cares about the country.

I always like Consumer Dudes posts.

Yes keep calm and carry on,i am off.Feeling slightly better.

 

determindator

If a political party wants support from the people they have to stand up for reasons the people find important like building more homes which are really affordable for buying and for renting in the housing association and Council sectors.

Fair point,the people should come first.Not what big business wants,profit at any cost.

Some of the powerful ones need to think hard today and during the coming days,weeks,months of what the people have really told them.

[determindator]

Let's reduce VAT that should be a pleaser:-D

 

I would say to the hot heads shouting in banking wasn't it Goldman Sachse who signed Greece in. Commendable to Boris for making positive statements. The banking crew act on words so all this talk of losing banking jobs is unfounded. Blame your employer.

 

Oh yes and wasn't it Andrea your Banker MP who voted for out. Bankers need to chat with her if you want to wine.

[Guest]

No we've had one, can't see why we'd need another I'd still vote to be part of the UK

seems the scots in Parliament today were/are adamant on one if Scot cant stay in the EU

(btw, when i said '...even they voted remain' i meant remain in the eu.)

 

listened to most of it today on the radio, interesting. At least some of those main misleading 'promises' made by the leavers were put on the parliamentary record (without challenge it seems). and some sarcastic comments about Buff'n and Gove not being there, obviously the former talking now as if he is already PM...!

 

so, a new PM by 2nd Sept. No Art 50 until after then, etc

[honeybee13]

Standard and Poores have downgraded the UK from AAA to AA rating following the vote.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/business/economy

[tobyjugg2]

Thought so

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/27/europe-leaders-crunch-talks-brexit-fallout

 

Germany rules out informal Brexit talks before article 50 is triggered

 

 

(http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?460072-The-European-Union.....In-or-Out&p=4916832&viewfull=1#post4916832)

 

 

and when we trigger article 50 - the EU CAN place a time limit on it.

- and undoubtedly will

[determindator]

I see Angela Merkel was reported as saying the young people of the UK voted overwhelming to remain. Have we missed something? Many young people voted?

 

Senator Kerry proves the point there is the element of punishment and urges all to keep their heads and not go down that route. Rightly so as it has no place in a civilised society. There's no reason our currency should fall it's the speculators using it as an excuse to fill their sacks as we all know.

 

Why is America wading in, they started a new country with Irish and UK leavers so I say again sour grapes or tell us the real reason. Well I think we know the ultimate plan but if you looked after people properly they'd play ball.

[tobyjugg2]

I see Angela Merkel was reported as saying the young people of the UK voted overwhelming to remain. Have we missed something? Many young people voted?

 

 

It would appear you missed something.

The youth of the nation voted overwhelmingly to stay

 

 

Jeremy Corbyn has lost the support of London Youth Labour

 

LYL Statement on Jeremy Corbyn

 

http://londonyounglabour.co.uk/uncategorized/lyl-statement-on-jeremy-corbyn/

 

 

Senator Kerry proves the point there is the element of punishment and urges all to keep their heads and not go down that route. Rightly so as it has no place in a civilised society. There's no reason our currency should fall it's the speculators using it as an excuse to fill their sacks as we all know.

 

Its not punishment, they just aren't going out of their way to help enemies.

 

There is every reason for the currency to fall - as exactly predicted (by everyone except by the Brexit campaign).

[honeybee13]

I see Angela Merkel was reported as saying the young people of the UK voted overwhelming to remain. Have we missed something? Many young people voted?

 

Senator Kerry proves the point there is the element of punishment and urges all to keep their heads and not go down that route. Rightly so as it has no place in a civilised society. There's no reason our currency should fall it's the speculators using it as an excuse to fill their sacks as we all know.

 

Why is America wading in, they started a new country with Irish and UK leavers so I say again sour grapes or tell us the real reason. Well I think we know the ultimate plan but if you looked after people properly they'd play ball.

 

My understanding is that if you're a worse credit risk as in being AA instead of AAA rated, the currency could drop because our debt level is already high and may increase. This means that the rates we borrow at could rise.

 

Investors and banks are likely to have less confidence in the ability of the UK economy to service its debts, so are less likely to lend to us. Or as I said above, they will want to charge more to offset the risk caused by our new credit rating.

[Guest]

seems correct.

theres no art 50 until at least sometime after 2nd sept. then there will be the all the negotiations. so, until actual agreements etc are known, the economy/rates etc will prob continue to fall. and, may fall more after depending on what is in place.

 

Cam highlighted today that the best agreement with the eu shld be in place for the economy. the best economic agreement being outside of the eu wld also involve freedom of movement. not much change there then for the Exitors re their claims! unless they want a less favourable agreement.