Robinson Way - Barclaycard debt - Request must be formally made to us in writing

[petersmith80uk]

Hello there!

 

First time post for me so apologies if I miss something!

 

I received a letter from Robinson Way for an alleged barclaycard debt, of which I sent a CCA request enclosing the £1, which they banked.

 

I received a letter saying that they would request the details from their client and it would be on hold until they received the details.

 

Subsequently I've now received a letter saying:

 

"Further to your recent request for a copy agreement on the above account,

we are unable to obtain this form the original creditor as this request must be formally made to us in writing.

 

Please accept our apologies for any inconvenience caused by us not informing you of this requirement at the time of your initial request.

If you still require the agreement please submit your request in writing to us at the address above and we will process it as quickly as possible.

Please note that the £1.00 fee normally required for a CCA request will be waived on this occasion.

 

In the meantime,

we have placed your account on a 30 day delay to allow you enough time to submit a written request.

If we do not hear back from you within this time we will assume you no longer require this information

and your account activity will resume."

 

I sent the CCA request with the enclosed payment to the same address on the letter?!

 

It is now 17 days since the date of my original CCA request.

I'm not sure which way to respond to this - any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

Many thanks!

[renegadeimp]

Stalling tactics. Don't fall for it

[Conniff]

Welcome to the forum Peter.

 

So how did your request and the fee get to them ??

[AndyOrch]

Hello there!

 

First time post for me so apologies if I miss something!

 

I received a letter from Robinson Way for an alleged barclaycard debt, of which I sent a CCA request enclosing the £1, which they banked.

 

I received a letter saying that they would request the details from their client and it would be on hold until they received the details.

 

Subsequently I've now received a letter saying:

 

"Further to your recent request for a copy agreement on the above account, we are unable to obtain this form the original creditor as this request must be formally made to us in writing.

 

Please accept our apologies for any inconvenience caused by us not informing you of this requirement at the time of your initial request. If you still require the agreement please submit your request in writing to us at the address above and we will process it as quickly as possible. Please not that the £1.00 fee normally required for a CCA request will be waived on this occasion.

 

In the meantime, we have placed your account on a 30 day delay to allow you enough time to submit a written request. If we do not hear back from you within this time we will assume you no longer require this information and your account activity will resume."

 

I sent the CCA request with the enclosed payment to the same address on the letter?!

 

It is now 17 days since the date of my original CCA request. I'm not sure which way to respond to this - any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

Many thanks!

 

I assume you used our CCA Request...then no need to respond ....you have made your legal request...that is their response...attach it to your copy of section 77/78 and ignore anything else....they are now in default.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[fkofilee]

So you sent a written letter with a £1 Stat Fee... and they respond saying it needs to be in writing.

 

Classy!

[Stigman]

Keep all of your correspondence including the information of the banked £1 for the CCA request.

 

As above ignore all future letters until they come back with anything resembling a CCA request, when/if they do, remove anything that can personally identify you and post up.

 

Stigman

[petersmith80uk]

Hi All,

 

Thank you so much for your feedback!

 

I did write the CCA letter to the exact same address as their response with the £1, which I can see they've banked. I didn't use the exact template as I wasn't aware of it at the time but it essentially says the same thing.

 

I'm not sure whether I should write a letter in return to inform them that I've already followed the procedures according to the rules and that they are in default or just leave it.

 

Or should I write a different letter?

 

Thanks again!

[slick132]

Hi PS,

 

Can you copy the exact wording of your CCA request, leaving out anything that would identify you.

 

[petersmith80uk]

Hi Slick,

 

It said:

 

"With reference to the above claim, I require the following:

 

1. A true copy of the alleged agreement you refer to. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement, under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

2. A signed true copy of the deed of assignment of the above referenced agreement that you allege exists.

 

3. A full statement of account.

 

4. A copy of any other documents referred to in the agreement.

 

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77-79), I am entitled to receive a copy of my credit agreement on request. I enclose a payment of £1.00 which represents the fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act. Please note that under no circumstances should this payment be set aside any alleged debt. If you are unable to supply the documentation requested, this fee should be returned.

 

I understand a copy of our credit agreement should be supplied within 12 working days.

 

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of the agreement under these sections of the Act."

 

 

Many thanks!

[renegadeimp]

Number 2 you wont get. Was that letter from cag or from another site?

[slick132]

Hi PS,

 

That's fine and you've done all you need for now.

 

Unless and until they produce a reply to the CCA request, they are in default and cannot take action to demand or collect the alleged debt (as suggested above).

 

Let us know what you receive next.

 

[petersmith80uk]

Number 2 you wont get. Was that letter from cag or from another site?

 

Yep... I now understand that is incredible unlikely, despite case law.

 

On that topic - I have a question..!

 

Given the original creditor has not followed the rules, the DCA do not have legal assignment of the alleged debt.

 

If they were then to make a CCJ Claim and eventually it goes to the judge.. And if the judge requests the evidence and they then prove they own the debt, then does the fact that they still only have equitable assignment mean that they are still unable to claim for the money (without the help of the original creditor?).

 

My worry is that they prove it and so you lose your defense.

 

What other options do you have other than going to the original creditor yourself and asking for confirmation that they assigned the debt?

 

Thanks for any and all advice!

[petersmith80uk]

Hi PS,

 

That's fine and you've done all you need for now.

 

Unless and until they produce a reply to the CCA request, they are in default and cannot take action to demand or collect the alleged debt (as suggested above).

 

Let us know what you receive next.

 

 

Thanks so much for your advice slick132. Very much appreciated!

 

If they continue to chase me and what point am I able to take action?

[AndyOrch]

Yep... I now understand that is incredible unlikely, despite case law.

 

On that topic - I have a question..!

 

Given the original creditor has not followed the rules, the DCA do not have legal assignment of the alleged debt.

 

If they were then to make a CCJ Claim and eventually it goes to the judge.. And if the judge requests the evidence and they then prove they own the debt, then does the fact that they still only have equitable assignment mean that they are still unable to claim for the money (without the help of the original creditor?).

 

My worry is that they prove it and so you lose your defense.

 

What other options do you have other than going to the original creditor yourself and asking for confirmation that they assigned the debt?

 

Thanks for any and all advice!

 

Only the benefit of an agreement may be assigned. There is no requirement for written notice to be given or received. The only significant difference between a legal assignment and an equitable assignment is that an equitable assignee often cannot bring an action in its own name against the third party contractor, but must fall back on the rules governing equitable assignments and join the assignor as party to the action.

 

But how would you know what type of assignment it was.... without Notice...without seeing the Deed of Assignment ? and a DCA would not dare issue a claim in court only attaining equitable assignment.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Old Cogger]

all you get is letter of assignment that is all you are entitled to see.

[petersmith80uk]

Only the benefit of an agreement may be assigned. There is no requirement for written notice to be given or received. The only significant difference between a legal assignment and an equitable assignment is that an equitable assignee often cannot bring an action in its own name against the third party contractor, but must fall back on the rules governing equitable assignments and join the assignor as party to the action.

 

But how would you know what type of assignment it was.... without Notice...without seeing the Deed of Assignment ? and a DCA would not dare issue a claim in court only attaining equitable assignment.

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

Thanks Andy. I thought that in order for it to be a legal assignment they would need evidence that the debtor accepted the letter either via registered post or in person. If they have no such evidence, as you say, they only have the benefit of the agreement but not legal assignment that would give them the right to make a claim.

[AndyOrch]

Thanks Andy. I thought that in order for it to be a legal assignment they would need evidence that the debtor accepted the letter either via registered post or in person. If they have no such evidence, as you say, they only have the benefit of the agreement but not legal assignment that would give them the right to make a claim.

 

I thought you had stopped reading nonsense on other forums

 

A Claimant will not disclose the type of the Assignment...no need to wont be ordered to or questioned on by a Court...all they have to produce is a Notice of Assignment...even a reconstituted version if they dont keep hard copies....and the court will accept it.

 

Andy

[Old Cogger]

all that is accepted is an entry on file that a letter was sent out (Balance of Probabilities), one can say they did not get one but alas you would no doubt be told move on within the case (Most Buyers send 2 letters in the envelope to you, so called one from seller and one from buyer).

 

Must say sounds the query stems from another site which if used in a court room backfires in adjudication, meaning defendant can be a bigger looser than if not used such an argument!

[petersmith80uk]

Thanks andyorch / oc; I really appreciate your candid advice!

 

So if I request evidence using the CCA letter to a DCA and they fail to respond and then subsequently make a claim. I'd then defend and when it goes to the judge, they'd ask for info and I finally get the evidence I asked for to pay up. But by that point, I've now coughed up more in time and money just because they've not followed the rules.

 

And at worst the judge then adds on interest and you'd end up paying more on top!

 

In your experience is the above typical?

 

Really appreciate all your time in responding. I've never been in a court room so have no idea of what happens in reality vs whats on paper!!

[renegadeimp]

They can't make a claim if they don't have the right paperwork

[AndyOrch]

" So if I request evidence using the CCA letter to a DCA and they fail to respond and then subsequently make a claim. I'd then defend and when it goes to the judge, they'd ask for info No you ask for infor and the court compels them to disclose and I finally get the evidence I asked for to pay up.If they can disclose...dont forget you have already sent your CCA request and they cant comply..thats the reason for sending pre litigation But by that point, I've now coughed up more in time and money just because they've not followed the rules.What money?...costs nothing to defend a claim

 

And at worst the judge then adds on interest and you'd end up paying more on top!No further interest or costs added they are already included in the claim

 

But because you requested the agreement by way of a CCA request ...they cant comply....you defended the claim...they cant disclose to the court...claim dismissed or discontinued.

 

In your experience is the above typical? "

 

Not at all......but now I have amended above.... thats typical

 

Andy

[petersmith80uk]

" So if I request evidence using the CCA letter to a DCA and they fail to respond and then subsequently make a claim. I'd then defend and when it goes to the judge, they'd ask for info No you ask for infor and the court compels them to disclose and I finally get the evidence I asked for to pay up.If they can disclose...dont forget you have already sent your CCA request and they cant comply..thats the reason for sending pre litigation But by that point, I've now coughed up more in time and money just because they've not followed the rules.What money?...costs nothing to defend a claim

 

And at worst the judge then adds on interest and you'd end up paying more on top!No further interest or costs added they are already included in the claim

 

But because you requested the agreement by way of a CCA request ...they cant comply....you defended the claim...they cant disclose to the court...claim dismissed or discontinued.

 

In your experience is the above typical? "

 

Not at all......but now I have amended above.... thats typical

 

Andy

 

Thanks very much for the detailed response Andy. Very much appreciated.

[petersmith80uk]

Hello!

 

After many months they've cobbled something together, which they say is a "reconstituted agreement". Essentially they have taken screenshots of a computer system which includes some of my personal details?!

 

The contents of which include my name and address, the credit card limit (Which is wrong) and bank details - of which is the current name of the bank and not the name of the bank at the time of the agreement.

 

So far they've sent me statement of all transactions made on the card along with the above screenshots. It doesn't contain interest rates, T&Cs or anything like that. How should I respond?

 

Many thanks!

[martin2006]

When did you take out this alleged barclaycard?

Is it still showing on your CRA file?

Check noddle and clearscore, they have the account start dates on them.

The key to whether a reconstituted agreement is acceptable is the date the account was opened.

[petersmith80uk]

Hi Martin,

 

There's a barclaycard on there but account status is closed. Then I can see a HPH2 record on there with account opened 15 October 2008.

 

Thanks!