court papers in my sons name for my debt!!!

[ajjars]

Hi, I need some advice regarding a debt in my sons name that I opened. 8 years ago

 

 

I applied for a catalogue account on line and was turned down.

I then changed the name to my sons and was accepted.

 

 

The intention was never to commit fraud, and the fact that it probably was fraud never crossed my mind.

I maintained the account for about 4 years, by which time my son had found out that this account existed

and obviously was not very happy about it.

 

I was (wrongly) advised to stop paying it and then when it went to debt collectors

to explain the situation and they would change the name over and let me pay it off. Big mistake!

 

 

The debt collectors have refused to deal with me, and my son has refused to deal with it as it is my "mess".

 

 

I sent an email on my sons behalf about 3 years ago explaining that it was not his account,

that it was mine and their reply was to advise my son to go to the police and have me charged with fraud,

obviously neither he, nor me want this.

 

 

He has also emailed the debt collectors a few months ago asking for the original signed consumer credit agreement, but they have not responded.

 

Obviously they will not have it.

Today I received court papers in my sons name for this account.

(He doesn't live here now, and I can clearly see it is court papers).

His credit history is perfect, he has never even paid his phone bill late so I really need to sort this out for him.

 

How should he defend this?

Obviously he will defend the whole claim and ask for the signed consumer credit agreement,

but should he put in the court papers that it was me who opened the account,

or should he just leave them to prove the onus is on him,

that he denies it is his account and that they have to prove it is his?

I don't know how it works.

 

Obviously I am a little bit worried that I may be charged with fraud - that was never my intention,

it never even crossed my mind back then, but I have to sort this out for my son.

 

 

If the debt collectors agreed to change the name to mine and remove it from his credit file

I would be happy to set up a plan to pay it off.

We did initially approach them with this and that is when they said to go to the police.

 

 

Should we send them a letter now with this proposition,

in the defence time asking them to withdraw the court papers?

How should we proceed for the best outcome?

 

He recently applied for a loan and was turned down because of this so I really need to sort it.

 

The catalogue is a plus size woman's clothes catalogue btw

- he was an 18 year old when the account was opened.

 

Thanks in advance - from a very silly mum!!

Edited January 2, 2015 by citizenB
formatting for easier reading

[citizenB]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?419198-You-have-received-a-Claim-What-you-need-to-do.-**UPDATED-December-2014**(1-Viewing)-nbsp

 

Can you please have a read of the thread I have linked above. Please provide answers to the questions asked .. in this thread Then we can move forward. The most urgent information required is the date of issue of the claim form - you will find this at the top right hand side of the claim form.

[citizenB]

You don't need telling how stupid you have been because you now realise the damage that has been done and it is not CAG's policy to be judgmental.

 

The problems you are facing are..

 

There will be no signed agreement, catalogues pretty much accepted that the receipt of the goods and the first payment was sufficient.

 

This action as you have already discovered has blighted your Son's credit history and from the default date will stay for 6 years. If this claim is not dealt with satisfactorily then he will also have a CCJ recorded for a further 6 years.

 

You say that you did advise the catalogue company and they refused to change this unless your Son made a complaint to the police, yes ?

 

IMHO, I think your Son should deny the account is his - that the company was informed of this on DATE. Whether or not he acknowledges that he knows who did this (ie his Mum) , I really don't know - I will ask others with more knowledge.

[ajjars]

Thanks for you reply.

 

 

I see in the thread above that you asked me to read, it says direct communication with the creditor is encouraged by the court.

 

 

I have drafted up an email to send to Lowell Portfolio who have initiated the court claim stating that it is not my sons debt,

that it is indeed mine and offering to set up a payment plan with them if they agree to withdraw the court action.

 

 

We will still defend the claim until it has been resolved one way or the other

- but the fact that my son is not admitting to the claim and I am is surely enough to prove it isn't his debt?

 

 

Therefore they won't win in court, so are more likely to accept my offer of a payment plan?!

 

 

Then the court can see that we have tried to resolve this without the need to take up the courts time. What do you think?

 

 

Will it prejudice the claim in any way?

 

 

I really can't let my son get a CCJ, he is very strict about paying bills and it will put our all ready rocky relationship under more strain.

 

 

Thanks

[citizenB]

I am not sure if that would be acceptable - the claim is in your Son's name and he now will need to defend this. He MUST adhere to the time table set out by the claim.

 

So please, let us know the issue date as requested if you wish us to help.

[ajjars]

The issue date is 30th December.

 

 

I am trying my best to sort this out without him having to do anything other than sign the court papers. I will have to tell him tomorrow about them, but I was hoping to have a plan of action in place when I do ....... soften the blow a bit

[citizenB]

The issue date is 30th December.

 

 

I am trying my best to sort this out without him having to do anything other than sign the court papers. I will have to tell him tomorrow about them, but I was hoping to have a plan of action in place when I do ....... soften the blow a bit

 

What is the amount of the claim ?

 

The general consensus of opinion is the only way you will avoid obtaining a CCJ for your son would be to pay the amount owed immediately to prevent it going any further.

[ajjars]

Thanks for your reply CitizenB,

 

 

Unfortunately paying the debt off is not an option for me - it's almost £1800.

Even if I could, which I can't it would stop the CCJ, but it would still be on my sons credit file.

 

 

I need to sort this out for him, get it completely off his file and restore his good credit history.

I don't see how they can go ahead with their claim if I admit he knew nothing of it and that it was me who opened the account?

That is obviously going to be his defence and I will submit a letter to the court in his bundle to that effect.

I cannot let him get a CCJ for this and I will go to the police myself if I have to.

 

 

I don't think it is worth submitting his defence saying he didn't open the account without me admitting I did as they might not believe him.

If he does end up with a CCJ is there an appeal process?

 

 

Thanks

[unclebulgaria67]

Thanks for your reply CitizenB,

 

 

Unfortunately paying the debt off is not an option for me - it's almost £1800.

Even if I could, which I can't it would stop the CCJ, but it would still be on my sons credit file.

 

 

I need to sort this out for him, get it completely off his file and restore his good credit history.

I don't see how they can go ahead with their claim if I admit he knew nothing of it and that it was me who opened the account?

That is obviously going to be his defence and I will submit a letter to the court in his bundle to that effect.

I cannot let him get a CCJ for this and I will go to the police myself if I have to.

 

 

I don't think it is worth submitting his defence saying he didn't open the account without me admitting I did as they might not believe him.

If he does end up with a CCJ is there an appeal process?

 

 

Thanks

 

Tell your Son what has happened and work together. Think your Son could defend and try to negotiate a lower settlement amount, which he could pay.

 

Or your Son just settles the court claim and you pay him back over a period of time.

 

Do you know whether this catalogue account was taken out before or after April 2007 ?

[caro]

This is your son's claim and he has to deal with it. This all came about because you used his name, and you're obviously STILL opening post addressed to him.

 

It's great you're trying to protect him, but he needs to deal with it, so bite the bullet and work WITH HIM so that he can try and defend this.

 

If he's happy for you to share the information if he wants help from CAG, please post the POC - or maybe he'd rather post for help himself.

[ajjars]

I am totally ashamed and embarrassed about this, I am not sleeping and I don't know what to do, as I imagine most posters on this site are. We are all human and make mistakes - but you're right guys, I need to work with my son as he needs to defend this.

 

 

I am just trying to get ahead with a plan before I have to tell him about the claim.

 

 

I am opening his mail as I could see it was court papers - I don't normally open his mail, that's why I had no idea this was going to court.

He doesn't live here anymore, so the only mail that comes here is from this company.

 

 

Right POC of Claim are as follows:

 

 

THIS CLAIM IS FOR 1416.23, THE AMOUNT DUE UNDER AN AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE ORIGINAL CREDITOR AND THE DEFENDANT TO PROVIDE FINANCE AND/OR SERVICES AND/OR GOODS.

 

 

THIS DEBT WAS ASSIGNED TO/PURCHASED BY Lowell Portfolio I Ltd ON 07/01/2013 AND NOTICE SERVED PURSUANT TO THE LAW OF PROPERTY ACT 1925

 

 

PARTICULARS

RE - JD WILLIAMS

A/C NO ********

 

 

AND THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS 1416.23

 

 

THE CLAIMANT ALSO CLAIMS STATUTORY INTEREST PURSUANT TO S.69 OF THE COUNTY ACT 1984 AT A RATE OF 8% PER ANNUM.

FROM THE DATE OF THE ASSIGNMENT OF THE AGREEMENT TO DATE BUT LIMITED TO A MAXIMUM OF ONE YEAR AND A MAXIMUM OF 1000 AMOUNTING TO 113.30

 

 

 

 

The grand total is 1714.53 with costs and fees.

 

 

The solicitor is Bryan Carter.

 

 

Is there a chance that they would agree to a full and final settlement with a discount before it goes to court. If we were to offer them an amount do you think they would accept it? I cannot afford to pay the full amount, but maybe half the debt and the costs and fee's.

 

 

My son will not be able to help me out with this, he has a young son of his own and like most young couples they are just getting by themselves.

 

 

Do you think I would be worth sending them a CCA request? I know nothing has ever been signed, but I can't recall if it was opened before April 2007 or not. I know he was 18, so it was definitely 2007.

 

 

 

 

If anyone could help me with what to do now, how to start defending this I would be very grateful.

 

 

Thanks

[caro]

So the defence is very simple.

 

The defendant denies that he ever entered into any agreement with the original creditor, or received finance and/or services and/or goods, and puts the claimant to provide proof of their claim.

 

If they provide a CCA I assume that your son's signature won't be on it, although they are not required to provide the original if it was after April 2007, so the date is crucial.

 

I am not as legally savvy as many on the site so let's see what others views are.

[ajjars]

Just found an old statement dated 09/07/2011 and is numbered statement 36.

 

 

By my calculations that means the account was opened 3 years previously in 2008 - so that puts a whole new slant on things I'm guessing?

 

 

Doesn't change the facts though .......

[caro]

They can certainly provide a recon agreement instead of the original, but as you say, it doesn't change the facts. I've asked for further advice for you.

[ajjars]

Thank you

[citizenB]

There is a timeline that you are required to adhere to (or your Son is), otherwise the claimant will obtain a Judgment by default - so the sooner you tell your son about this the better.

 

Issue date 30.12.2014 + 5 days for service = 03.01.2015 + 14 days for acknowledging = 17.01.2015 + 14 days to submit a defence = 31.01.2015

[unclebulgaria67]

My advice is that you should speak to a Solicitor. Many offer a free half an hour consultation. Your local Citizens Advice may be able to help.

 

Because the debt account was taken out after April 2007, they just have to prove the debt exisits in your Sons name. Presumably you applied online using his name and date of birth, with all the statements/deliveries going to the address where you both lived. So it is not possible to prove that the debt is not his or yours. The court will believe the documents supplied by the claimant.

 

Please be aware that in a similar case involving Lowells, they went down the bankruptcy route. It took years and much expense to resolve, which involved the person having to appeal against the bankruptcy.

 

The advice from a Solicitor is probably for you and your Son to find the money to pay the claimant, so you can put this all behind you.

[ajjars]

Thanks unclebulgaria for your reply.

 

Do you think that we should communicate directly with the claimant, offer to pay if they change the name over to mine

and remove all reference of it from his credit file.

 

 

I don't care what they do to me, but I cannot let this affect his credit - I have to get it removed for him.

 

 

I have found the reply to the email that was sent a few years ago to the original creditor

and they offered to change the names over if we contacted the fraud dept.

 

 

This is the reply where they also advised my son to go to the police.

 

 

Obviously the word "fraud", made me bury my head in the sand again ..... I really didn't digest the contents of it properly.

 

 

Would it be worth pursuing that route again?

 

 

What do you think the chances of getting the debt reduced to an affordable amount that I could pay off in one lump sum is?

 

 

Are Lowell's known to do this?

 

I just find it hard to think that even if my son denies this debt,

and I admit it that the court could still find in favour of the claimant and CCJ my son.

 

What would my son want with women's clothes?!!

 

This really is stressing me out now!!

[unclebulgaria67]

If the claimant is paid the amount due within the time allowed, then there would be no record in your Sons name.

 

 

So it is not necessary to change the name and they won't anyway.

 

A court judgment is only recorded officially, it is not paid within the time allowed or you need to enter into a repayment arrangement over a period of time.

[ajjars]

What about the default etc that will be on his credit file pertaining to this account?

 

If they agreed a reasonable discount I could probably pay it ...

.. but are they known to do this and how should we go about it?

[unclebulgaria67]

What about the default etc that will be on his credit file pertaining to this account?

If they agreed a reasonable discount I could probably pay it ..... but are they known to do this and how should we go about it?

 

Yes there could be defaults on your Sons credit file. Not sure how he would get these removed.

 

They probably won't accept a reduced settlement.

 

 

Your Son could defend the claim and look to go into a mediated settlement with Lowell, looking to reduce the amount they want.

e.g he could ask for excessive charges to be removed.

 

 

Then once the amount is agreed, if he pays this within 30 days, then no CCJ would be recorded.

[ajjars]

Well, whatever happens he will need to defend this - if only to buy us some time.

 

 

Would someone be kind enough to advise what he should put on the defence form?

 

 

Is it worth doing a SAR request?

 

 

I still can't believe there is no way to prove this isn't his account; the email address registered to this account is mine, it is registered to all my personal accounts and my bank accounts, it was always my card that was used to pay the account, and always me who signed for the parcels - apart from the initial opening of the account - none of his data will be associated with it in any way.

 

 

What about if I go to the police now and admit what I've done?! Will this have any bearing on the court case?

 

 

He's so screwed - all because of my stupidity!!!

[unclebulgaria67]

Well, whatever happens he will need to defend this - if only to buy us some time.

 

 

Would someone be kind enough to advise what he should put on the defence form?

 

 

Is it worth doing a SAR request?

 

 

I still can't believe there is no way to prove this isn't his account; the email address registered to this account is mine, it is registered to all my personal accounts and my bank accounts, it was always my card that was used to pay the account, and always me who signed for the parcels - apart from the initial opening of the account - none of his data will be associated with it in any way.

 

 

What about if I go to the police now and admit what I've done?! Will this have any bearing on the court case?

 

 

He's so screwed - all because of my stupidity!!!

 

The defence is that he has never opened a catalogue account with X company and that the catalogue company or Lowell finance are aware of this, as the person who opened the account in the wrong name has already contacted them.

 

Ask for proof ( Son to send a CPR 31.14 letter) from Bryan Carters that Mr X applied for the account and has incurred a debt, with a copy of the application, a copy of the Consumer Credit Agreement and copies of all statements of account.

 

http://www.consumerwiki.co.uk/index.php/DCA:_Using_CPR_31.14_to_Your_Advantage

 

Actions

 

1) Son to send CPR 31.14 letter to Bryan Carters by recorded delivery. Amend the letter to ask for documents mentioned above.

 

2) Son to acknowledge the claim form online within the time allowed, saying that he will defend in full.

 

3) Then wait for a response to the 31.14 letter, but keep an eye on the deadline date by which an initial defence needs to be submitted by. It is likely that Bryan Carters won't respond in time and a defence can just be added that Mr X denies that the debt is his, as he has never applied for an account with original creditors X company. He also is aware that the person who opened the account in error had contacted X company to inform them of the error.

 

You can explain what you have done as an error. It is unlikely that Lowell or the Catalogue company will report you for fraud. If you went down to the Police station and admitted to fraud, it is not definite that they would actually charge you with fraud, unless the catalogue company wishes to pursue the matter.

 

In the case I mentioned the other day, which is on CAG somewhere. The Judge in the court just said that Lowell and the debtor should come to an arrangement to resolve the debt. There was a mix up about whose account/debt it was, but that there was a debt, which should be resolved.

 

Just get your Son to send the CPR letter and to acknowledge the claim form that it will be defended in full for now.

[*RainbowTears*]

Can I just ask the following;

 

What if the OP confesses now to opening the account in her sons name to JD Williams?

 

As it's had nothing to do with him whatsoever, this will have impacted his credit history (as I'm guessing there's markers on his file) & he could potentially be facing having an CCJ which will severely impact him!

 

So say if the OP confesses, can the Court proceedings be dropped as the person named on them is incorrect?

 

I do hope you are able to get this sorted out.

 

Good luck!!

[SabreSheep]

an admissoin of guilt would in theory allow for the son to have his credit history cleared.

 

With evidence they were told by the true owner of the debt he might be able to claim compensation regaridng inaccurate entries to cras