Another disquieting article from Scoop

[brassnecked]

Here is another unsettling article from the Daily Mail courtesy of Scoop.

It shows how unaffordable Council Tax is now, and most probably the Enforcement Companies will be salivating at the prospect of all those extra fees they will be raking in:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2806474/How-debt-mountatin-unpaid-council-tax-worth-450-family-parts-country.html

 

The tone of the article indicates that the Government just doesn't "get it" about council tax, as in castigating a council for non collection when the residents are skint is passing the buck, it is one seriously iniquitous tax that takes no account of ability to pay. Now more are in the net due to Council Tax Benefit being replaced by Council Tax Relief I wonder how much of the arrears are due to people who never had to pay before, now finding they need to pay £10 or more per week from benefit or Tax Credit?

Edited October 28, 2014 by brassnecked
Rant

[sillygirl1]

Perhaps a campaign could be started along the lines of

 

1. Councils should NOT be fined for non collection of CT

2. Councils should NOT be allowed to use the court system unless an individuals CT debt is over £5,000 (would save a heck of a lot of back office staff....)

3. Councils should be fined for the amount of liability orders they issue within the current financial year

 

That little lot of legislation would make the whole process fairer.

 

I can barely pay my CT yet they continue to try to prove I have a huge 'excess income' when the majority of that (and ALL of that) is taken up in essential fares to travel to work.

[mikeymack2002]

A fair story to read........ But if you read what is not there then you may see why these areas are high for non collection, !! the areas have a high immigrant population, no racisim intended but it is statisical, these arrears stem from those areas for a reason and the lack of enforcement from the LA shows that even they are possibly afraid to go and collect the due amounts. Why do the Councils not follow up on enforcement as this is so unfair on those that can and do pay.....

 

Check with the local councils with a FOI request for a breakdown of who is in that area

 

"Other councils in the top 10 include Salford, Luton, Manchester, Barking and Dagenham and Birmingham, where £245 is owed for each of the £430,000 homes."

[outlawla]

Despite increased pressure on local authorities, with deep cuts in their budgets, the amount of money they collected in council tax last year actually fell.

 

Just 97 per cent of the levy was paid in 2013-14, compared to 97.4 per cent a year earlier. It means town halls' performance is now no better than it was in 2008.

 

Something wrong with the reporting here.

 

I doubt "the amount of money they collected in council tax last year actually fell". More like the amount collected was higher because more tax was levied because of the benefit reforms. The percentage may have fallen but that's a different matter.

[Jamberson]

A fair story to read........ But if you read what is not there then you may see why these areas are high for non collection, !! the areas have a high immigrant population, no racisim intended but it is statisical, these arrears stem from those areas for a reason and the lack of enforcement from the LA shows that even they are possibly afraid to go and collect the due amounts. Why do the Councils not follow up on enforcement as this is so unfair on those that can and do pay.....

 

Check with the local councils with a FOI request for a breakdown of who is in that area

 

"Other councils in the top 10 include Salford, Luton, Manchester, Barking and Dagenham and Birmingham, where £245 is owed for each of the £430,000 homes."

 

It may be true that there is a correlation between immigrant numbers and non-collection, but you need to be careful how you interpret things like that. Many migrants arrive in search of work, so are generally not affluent to start with. So they will tend to live in non-affluent areas of Britain, and it's in those area where non-collection is going to be highest anyway - because of poverty and similar factors. There's a difference between a correlation and a causative relationship in data, and I'm not aware that councils are afraid to "go and collect" from people non native to the UK. It doesn't make much sense to me.

[mikeymack2002]

One of the main reasons for my reply was to show that even though the Councils make the mistake of "grouping" sets of people together rather than having a much more diverse culture spread over several "districts" it has been noted within the named areas that those populous are at the very least very poor and unaware of the conequences of non-payment of the CT.

 

You only have to look at "Brent Council" to see what is and how it is seen to be that these groups are being moved on and out of "affluent" areas thern the new Councils are maybe to frightened to collect in fear of the race card, therefore causing un-necessary arears forcing the use of LO's.

 

My point was just an observation and can be commented on in any manner, The Office of National statisics clearly see what is going on an make this avilable to view by anyone, it would be very interesting reading to see if the EA's and their offices would be prepared to state that are there more groups of people that are more likely not to pay when the enforcement has already started? regardless of race colour gender, then to be able to see which of these groups really need help and get that help for them, this would be more beneficial than just sweeping it under the carpet and getting a LO

[brassnecked]

In the meantime knowing what an absolute shower Anglesey Council are, this one will likely end up with bailiffs as in a penny turned into £310.01

 

http://www.newsnorthwales.co.uk/news/140003/grieving-gaerwen-father-told-to-pay-a-1p-tax-bill-after-his-daughter-died.aspx

 

The council have said how sorry they are, not to worry etc but still they continued, but no doubt this shower will pursue the arrears with extreme vigour and prejudice.

[mikeymack2002]

I have seen a few of these myself and for rent arrears too, council seeking possession for 1p madness in all honesty

[brassnecked]

I have seen a few of these myself and for rent arrears too, council seeking possession for 1p madness in all honesty

 

Personally I would have gone into the council office with a video crew, paid with 5 pence and demanded my change.

 

Problem is if this escalates, and knowing Anglesey it probably will, some anally retentive Official will issue a statement that the council is duty bound to collect arrears, yada yada, and by the way there is £xxx unpaid that will be chased with bailiffs if required

[BazzaS]

I have seen a few of these myself and for rent arrears too, council seeking possession for 1p madness in all honesty

 

A repossession hearing for 1p??

 

I'd hope the judge would offer to witness the transfer of 1p from defendant to plaintiff, and then have words with the plaintiff about use of the court's time.......

[brassnecked]

A repossession hearing for 1p??

 

I'd hope the judge would offer to witness the transfer of 1p from defendant to plaintiff, and then have words with the plaintiff about use of the court's time.......

 

I would also hope that would be the outcome Bazza, but; by the time it gets to the eviction hearing ther fees and costs will form the main basis of the eviction argument as in tenant didn't engage, was warned costs added, letters sent, costs added ad infinitum until presents at court for eviction for arrears and costs of say £2 - 3 K.

 

There is no reasoning with some council or Capita/Liberata drones. Common Sense may have been replaced by Common Purpose

[Bailiff Advice]

There is a another factor that is responsible for the collection rates falling and this is one that very few people in government are willing for make public and this concerns 'Freeman on the Land' (and other similar 'movements'.

 

A story featured a few days ago on SCOOP and I had intended starting a new thread about this matter and it was only yesterday afternoon that I noticed that in fact the article itself was dated 2010 !!!! and consequently the court case has already taken place.

 

This 'freeman' movement (because that is what it is) is called UK Column and from the article you will see that their 'guru's' is peddling the following rubbish:

 

 

 

What will happen if you refuse to pay?

 

 

After two or three months your local Council will withdraw the option of paying in instalments.

 

After another two or three months they will threaten to take you to Magistrates Court to obtain a “liability order” which will add £90.00, (£50.00 for the issue of the summons, and £40.00 for the issue of the liability order) and give the Council the power to take money directly from your earnings, Income Support or Job Seekers Allowance. That will take at least a month.

 

Let’s do the sums.

 

I understand that the average Council Tax bill is £1200 over 10 months.

 

That is £100 per month.

 

A person could withhold payments from the 5th month into the financial year and then pay up at month 10 before any sanctions are applied except the £90 costs.

 

If a few people do that, the tyranny will not be inconvenienced. If a million people do it will be.

 

For the more adventurous members of the resistance, there may be ways to starve the beast of tyranny of its taxes altogether

 

They are the Freeman concept, Chapter 61 of Magna Carta and duress of circumstances.

 

http://www.ukcolumn.org/article/council-tax-lawful-rebellion#.VErLsNsiPXU.twitter

 

 

PS: These 'guru's' make my blood boil. Many can well afford to pay council tax but consider that the 'resistance' can disrupt government agencies.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

There is a another factor that is responsible for the collection rates falling and this is one that very few people in government are willing for make public and this concerns 'Freeman on the Land' (and other similar 'movements'.

 

A story featured a few days ago on SCOOP and I had intended starting a new thread about this matter and it was only yesterday afternoon that I noticed that in fact the article itself was dated 2010 !!!! and consequently the court case has already taken place.

 

This 'freeman' movement (because that is what it is) is called UK Column and from the article you will see that their 'guru's' is peddling the following rubbish:

 

 

 

What will happen if you refuse to pay?

 

 

After two or three months your local Council will withdraw the option of paying in instalments.

 

After another two or three months they will threaten to take you to Magistrates Court to obtain a “liability order” which will add £90.00, (£50.00 for the issue of the summons, and £40.00 for the issue of the liability order) and give the Council the power to take money directly from your earnings, Income Support or Job Seekers Allowance. That will take at least a month.

 

Let’s do the sums.

 

I understand that the average Council Tax bill is £1200 over 10 months.

 

That is £100 per month.

 

A person could withhold payments from the 5th month into the financial year and then pay up at month 10 before any sanctions are applied except the £90 costs.

 

If a few people do that, the tyranny will not be inconvenienced. If a million people do it will be.

 

For the more adventurous members of the resistance, there may be ways to starve the beast of tyranny of its taxes altogether

 

They are the Freeman concept, Chapter 61 of Magna Carta and duress of circumstances.

 

http://www.ukcolumn.org/article/council-tax-lawful-rebellion#.VErLsNsiPXU.twitter

 

 

PS: These 'guru's' make my blood boil. Many can well afford to pay council tax but consider that the 'resistance' can disrupt government agencies.

 

 

Idiots Ville UK just a bloody nuisance , we had a small group of Neo Hippies pushing these stupid theories around North Essex./ South Suffolk a couple of years ago banging on about their rights to ignore statute law a couple tried it in court over CT they failed dismally and have not been heard from since.!!

[Bailiff Advice]

There is a another factor that is responsible for the collection rates falling and this is one that very few people in government are willing for make public and this concerns 'Freeman on the Land' (and other similar 'movements'.

 

They are the Freeman concept, Chapter 61 of Magna Carta and duress of circumstances.[/i]

 

Chapter 61 of Magna Carta covers the subject’s right to appeal to a committee of 25 Barons for redress against a tyrant.

[brassnecked]

Chapter 61 of Magna Carta covers the subject’s right to appeal to a committee of 25 Barons for redress against a tyrant.

 

Don't think the current crop of braying Donkey barons would be interested.

[Bailiff Advice]

 

What will happen if you refuse to pay?

 

 

After two or three months your local Council will withdraw the option of paying in instalments.

 

After another two or three months they will threaten to take you to Magistrates Court to obtain a “liability order” which will add £90.00, (£50.00 for the issue of the summons, and £40.00 for the issue of the liability order) and give the Council the power to take money directly from your earnings, Income Support or Job Seekers Allowance. That will take at least a month.

 

Let’s do the sums.

 

I understand that the average Council Tax bill is £1200 over 10 months.

 

That is £100 per month.

 

A person could withhold payments from the 5th month into the financial year and then pay up at month 10 before any sanctions are applied except the £90 costs.

 

If a few people do that, the tyranny will not be inconvenienced. If a million people do it will be.

 

For the more adventurous members of the resistance, there may be ways to starve the beast of tyranny of its taxes altogether

 

 

PS: These 'guru's' make my blood boil. Many can well afford to pay council tax but consider that the 'resistance' can disrupt government agencies.

 

The theory from idiotic movement beggars belief.

 

Firstly, if payment of council tax is 'withheld' from Month 5 the idiots are wrong in thinking that a Liability Order would not be issued for a further 5 months. Also, their 'resistance' members would all lose their right to pay to pay the remainder of their council tax by direct debit and they would all be liable for the summons costs.

[sillygirl1]

If payment f council tax is witheld from month 2 in most councils they get the liability order from month 4... not month 10. My local council charge £110 for costs....

 

These idiot sites need closing down as they serve no real purpose other than to confuse an already confused person into thinking they can 'get out of jail' completely free without paying anything like the amount they should.

[brassnecked]

In the meantime more from SCoop on the Haringey case

 

http://www.haringeyindependent.co.uk/news/11566799._A_powerful_win___single_mother_takes_down_council_in_supreme_court/

 

"Five judges held unanimously that the new rules had been adopted following a council-led consultation that was both “unfair and unlawful.”

They won't like that in Haringey Council, the implications are very serious, as it may well render any Liability Orders for the arrears created on the back of their scheme vexatious, and all bailiff fees void and repayable well that is one viewpoint.

[mikeymack2002]

It will be a great read to see the full Judgement will it be posted?

[outlawla]

It will be a great read to see the full Judgement will it be posted?

 

http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKSC/2014/56.html

[mikeymack2002]

Thanks should have checked myself I guess I got lazy today

 

Thx Outlala