Drink Driving

[jamesharris343]

I have recently been charged with drink driving (here for advice, I'm aware of how stupid and reckless it was)...

 

I blew 58ug at the police station, pleaded guilty in interview and currently out of work on JSA.

 

 

1. What is likely to happen to me?

 

I know I will get a year ban minimum and a fine. What is likelihood of custodial / community service?

 

 

2. When I go into the magistrates court - What should I take with me? Are they likely to ask me any questions about the incident and my background, give me a chance to plead my case? Or will it literally be a case of sentencing.

 

3. I read on another fourm that I should take my driving license with me (though have not been told this officially) but I have lost the paper counterpart. Is this likely to annoy the judge or do they not deal with this part.

 

4. How do I address the judge/bench? I'm assuming its 'your honour' ?

 

 

Thanks, James

[citizenB]

James,

 

Make sure you arrive early - make yourself known to the clerk of the court.

 

You address a Judge "Your Honour"

 

In an English High Court, it would be either "My Lord or My Lady".

 

Although if you are uncertain, perhaps it would be worth asking the clerk of the court before you go in.

 

At all times be respectful.

[citizenB]

Have you received a date for the hearing ?

 

From a quick google, if this is a first offence then you are likely to receive 12-16 month ban and a fine. It might be in your interest to take proof of your Benefit - apparently the fine is supposed to "hurt" but not leave you destitute.

 

If you know the court you will be attending, it might be worth asking if there is a Duty solicitor (unless you have already instructed one) who might be able to go into court with you.

 

I am sure others will pop in during the day to offer some assistance.

[Jamberson]

Unlikely to get a custodial sentence unless you have some previous - and it doesn't sound like you do. Someone got drunk in a pub, drove home and smashed into my wife's parked car one night, and wrote it off. He didn't get custodial sentence and I gather he'd been in trouble before.

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

I've moved your thread to the motoring offences forum at CAG and left you a short term redirect from the Local Authorities Parking forum. Here's a link in case you need it.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?432888-Drink-Driving

 

HB

[SabreSheep]

Please make sure you make yourself aware on how serious it could of been. I wont preach to you or issue judgement but as someone whose close family friend was in collision with a drink driver many years ago I feel many do not understand the seriousness of it.

 

Her father was an on duty Police officer at the time. After she suffered a head on collision with the drunk driving on the wrong side of a dual carrage way, her father was rushed in uniform to her bedside. Staff unaware of his connection told him that "This is likely going to be a case of death by dangerous driving as we are waiting for permission to switch off the life support"

 

Thankfully he fought on for her and she broke the only intact bone trying to get out of bed weeks later. Short term memory loss and also plates everywhere.

 

Make sure for your sake you understand the potential implications, and offer your apologies etc.

[Bandit127]

You will need to plead. Guilty or not guilty.

 

If you plead guilty the magistrates will want to know the background so you are likely to be asked to tell your story from the dock. You will need to swear an oath on the bible. They will likely ask you what effect banning you will have. If there are any mitigting circumstances you should write them down for yourself - it will make it easier for you to present that in court.

 

If there are no mitigating circumstances I think the starting point for the ban is 18 months.

 

Some responses to this thread will be a bit emotional. Perhaps even hysterical. Bear with the forum on that. Drink driving is an emotional and political issue as well as a criminal one. IMO, the criminal price you pay is the only one society requires you to pay - don't get hung up by the rest.

[SabreSheep]

Indeed to the above.

 

The reason for my post is that it gives you some idea on how things can go wrong. Showing genuine remorse has its place. But it has to be genuine.

 

I will now bow out of this thread as I do not want to be one of those who are self righteous and begin condemning you for what you did or didnt do. Im not a judge

[mch1991]

No one is here to judge you on your situation, so don't worry about that.

 

Blowing 58ug, as you said it's your first offence would not warrant any custodial sentence or any community service order (unless you blew a high reading).

 

You're looking at a driving ban for 12 months (minimum) and a fine/costs/victim surcharge, however a breath sample of 58ug would in my opinion see you banned for 16 months minimum, and the court can also require you to retake your driving test (theory and practical) again before obtaining a license.

 

You'll see increased insurance premiums as a drink driving conviction will stay on your license for 10 years (removed on the 11th anniversary).

 

Take your driving license along with any evidence of your benefits to the court, ask for weekly deductions from your benefits.

 

Just be apologetic, show remorse for your actions. You've pleaded guilty, just learn from this mistake for when you're able to drive again in the future.

[Aretnap]

Drink driving is on page 124 of the sentencing guidelines here

 

http://sentencingcouncil.judiciary.gov.uk/docs/MCSG_(web)_-_Complete_8.pdf

 

As you can see, you can expect a ban of 12-16 months (probably 16 as your alcohol reading is at the top of the first band) and a band C fine - which means around 150% of your weekly income, reduced by a third if you plead guilty.if you're out of work and on benefits your income will be assumed to be £110/week, so expect a fine of around £110. To that you can add costs of around £85 (may be reduced for people on very low income) and a victim surcharge of £20. You'll normally be allowed to pay the fine by installments. You'll likely be offered the chance to take a drink driver rehabilitation course which would reduce the ban by a quarter.

 

You won't be going to prison unless there's something big that you haven't mentioned. Jail is reserved for repeat offenders, those WAY over the limit, and those who kill or cause serious injury while drunk.

 

While the details of the conviction stay on our licence for 11 years, it only has to be declared to insurers for 5 years, as that's how long it takes to become "spent" under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act. However you can expect a significant premium hike for those 5 years.

 

You're more likely to be dealt with by magistrates than by a judge. The correct form of address for magistrates is "your worships", but if you get flustered or you're not sure, nobody is going to get upset if you just say "sir" or "madam".

[jamesharris343]

Many thanks to all those that have replied so far.

 

I pleaded guilty straight away in the interview and apologised for being such an idiot and was thankful that nobody was hurt (and this is sincere).

 

The police that followed me commented that I was not driving irratically and I was driving at a steady 70mph on a dual carriageway.

 

My only concern is that it took me a long time (over 5 miles) to pull over from when the blues n twos first went on, however the charge of failing to stop was dropped. Because they dropped this charge, do I not need to worry about it - or can they use it against me in court for the charge of DD?

 

And does this effect the worry of prison?

 

Thanks, James

[BazzaS]

Many thanks to all those that have replied so far.

 

I pleaded guilty straight away in the interview and apologised for being such an idiot and was thankful that nobody was hurt (and this is sincere).

 

The police that followed me commented that I was not driving irratically and I was driving at a steady 70mph on a dual carriageway.

 

My only concern is that it took me a long time (over 5 miles) to pull over from when the blues n twos first went on, however the charge of failing to stop was dropped. Because they dropped this charge, do I not need to worry about it - or can they use it against me in court for the charge of DD?

 

And does this effect the worry of prison?

 

Thanks, James

 

What first made them decide to stop you if your driving didn't appear impaired?

[mch1991]

That's very fortunate for you that the police dropped the "Failure to stop" charge, driving for 5 miles with a police vehicle with blue lights on is good evidence to get a successful prosecution.

 

Where you driving late at night? Early morning? I'm interested as to why the police initially decided to perform a s.163 RTA 1988 stop on you. You say that your driving wasn't what drew attention to yourself, but unless somebody reported you, or you somehow activated an ANPR camera, or unless you were driving late at night/early morning, then it's rare to be randomly pulled over.

 

They could, in court use the distance it took you to stop when signalled to do so as an aggravating circumstance, but a first time drink drive offence with a lower reading (58ug) I would imagine you'll receive a 12-16 month ban as stated before.

 

Let us know how you get on.

[Bandit127]

I think it is unlikely that they will bother with the 5 miles thing. If they didn't see enough evidence to prosecute you with failing to stop I don't see any benefit in putting it in the witness statement.

 

The evidence they need for the conviction is 1. you in the car and 2. your blood alcohol level. Anything else is not relevant to the charge and could be prejudicial.

 

You are not going to prison for a first time offence of simple driving over the limit. Get over it on that.

 

I think your blood level might make them look to the mid/upper range of the 12-16 months and might aggravate the fine. You were clearly well over the 35 limit.

[jamesharris343]

I was very depressed and my wife was concerned and called the police so they were looking for my car.

 

Will the police attend court as witnesses or will the prosecution just use their statements?

 

I think it is important to bring up that the police did not see a problem with my driving for my plea, but I do not have copies of the police statements (or my own interview), so how should I go about this (I am representing myself).

 

 

Thanks, James

[BazzaS]

I was very depressed and my wife was concerned and called the police so they were looking for my car.

 

Will the police attend court as witnesses or will the prosecution just use their statements?

 

I think it is important to bring up that the police did not see a problem with my driving for my plea, but I do not have copies of the police statements (or my own interview), so how should I go about this (I am representing myself).

 

 

Thanks, James

 

I'm not sure that the police "didn't see a problem with your driving" will be a mitigating factor - rather that it is the absence of an exacerbating factor (of poor / impaired) driving.

 

The offence isn't "poor driving while drunk", it is driving while over the prescribed limit......

[mch1991]

I would advise highly against saying anything of the sort to a magistrate. As stated above, you've been charged with driving whilst over the prescribed limit of alcohol.

 

You can't really mitigate in regards to a drink drive charge such as this. You should in court most definitely apologise for your actions, as it remains the only offence you've committed, you need to draw their attention to this and just accept that it was irresponsible of you, and something that remains out of character.

 

Magistrates will most likely show people who take responsibility for their actions more respect then those who are denial of the facts, they've probably heard every excuse in the book.

 

You're worrying to much in my opinion, many people are prosecuted each day for drink driving offences, many are much worse then yours.

 

Show up, dress up smart, be remorseful and apologetic, ask if a drink driving awareness course is available (might reduce your ban by a few months), and just learn from the experience.

 

As stated above, expect a driving ban of around 16 months, a large fine + costs + victim surcharge, and the possibility of having to reapply for a provisional license once the ban is up, and retake your theory and practical driving test.

[jamesharris343]

Thanks for everyones help.

 

I got a 15 month ban which will be reduced by 3 months after doing the drink driving programme and a £205 fine (I'll save that by just not paying car tax for 12 months!)

 

So relieved and lesson learnt

 

 

James

[king12345]

First of all remember to sorn the car asap, take a copy of the v5 and send it recorded delivery to dvla, otherwise there will be trouble.

Secondly, you sound very remorseful so the reduced fine and ban fits this situation imo.

Bare in mind that not too many years ago, especially in Europe, they didn't have the breathalyser and coppers were assessing the suspects on the road side.

Many drivers were over the present limit of 35, but their driving wasn't affected.

I'm not condoning drink driving, but a reading of 58 surely doesn't mean that you're plastered.

Imo there should be a bracket between 35 and 60/70 were the police could use their discretion and issue points and fine on the roadside, and of course prevent the driver continuing their journey until sober.

This is my personal opinion, so feel free to start the attack

[SabreSheep]

First of all remember to sorn the car asap, take a copy of the v5 and send it recorded delivery to dvla, otherwise there will be trouble.

Secondly, you sound very remorseful so the reduced fine and ban fits this situation imo.

Bare in mind that not too many years ago, especially in Europe, they didn't have the breathalyser and coppers were assessing the suspects on the road side.

Many drivers were over the present limit of 35, but their driving wasn't affected.

I'm not condoning drink driving, but a reading of 58 surely doesn't mean that you're plastered.

Imo there should be a bracket between 35 and 60/70 were the police could use their discretion and issue points and fine on the roadside, and of course prevent the driver continuing their journey until sober.

This is my personal opinion, so feel free to start the attack

 

I think you find that reactions and concentration are impacted in the majority of cases below the legal limit. It is that that causes accidents, not "Being plastered" or "Driving because I feel fine"

 

Those that "feel safe" to drive are more dangerous in some respects. You "feel Fine" from a standpoint where alcohol is already having an impact on judgement. Simply put, you cannot ask someone that has consumed alcohol to accuratley assess their own ability to drive.

 

Also bear in mind that there are other factors that impact on how much Alcohol effects different people. Having a "band" and using "common sense" is not practical. Also bear in mind that those "years gone by" things have changed.

 

"

 

• 0.2 mg per ml– Estonia, Malta, Romania, Slovakia, Czech Republic (see the comment by AAA for some slight clarification/extra detail on the Czech Republic), Hungary
  
• 0.3 mg per ml - Serbia. For a new drivers (with drivers licence for beginers), profesional drivers, motorcycle drivers, there is zero tolerance
  
• 0.2 mg per ml– Norway, Poland, Sweden
  
• 0.4 mg per ml- Lithuania
  
• 0.5 mg per ml- Belgium, Bulgaria, Denmark, Germany (Germany is 0.3 if you’re in an accident), Finland, France, Greece, Italy, Serbia/Montenegro, Croatia, Latvia, Macedonia, Netherlands, Austria, Portugal, Slovenia, Spain, Turkey, Cyprus (North), Switzerland
  
• 0.8 mg per ml– UK, Ireland, Luxembourg, Malta,
  
• 0.2 mg per ml Cyprus (South)
  

As you can see, we have the HIGHEST permittable level inside Europe. NOTE Serbias Zero tolerance for new drivers!!

 

 

Please remember that Drink Driving is not about "Points or Penalties" it is about the "Lives" of the driver and passengers and Innocent bystanders that get caught in the carnage.

[king12345]

I agree 100% that anyone drinking shouldn't be driving and as a matter of fact I never drive even if I have half a pint of beer.

However, I don't think that 2 pints would affect a 15 stone man to the point of being impaired, despite the fact he would be over the limit.

Again, I prefer being safe than sorry so I never use my car if I have had any alcohol at all.

[SabreSheep]

Same as me, I have a zero tolerance.

 

A 15 stone man might not be effected as much as someone else based on weight alone. However other factors may enhance the impact. That is why it i not practical to use other things and apply common sense. Too many factors prevent an accurate and quick assessment on a persons ability to drive. The only quick safe way to do it is the breath or blood tests.

 

Some companies now fit their vehicles with a breathalyser tied to an immobiliser. if you do not blow zero the engine does not start. I could forsee this being extended to cars over time.

[DragonFly1967]

The figures in post #20 are for blood alcohol, and should read mg per 100ml of blood. To save anyone else doing the maths. And basing the figures on the UK standard measurement of Micrograms of alcohol per 100ml of breath (µg/100ml).

 

0.2mg/100ml = 9µg/100ml

0.3mg/100ml = 13µg/100ml

0.4mg/100ml = 18µg/100ml

0.5mg/100ml = 22µg/100ml and

0.8mg/100ml = 35µg/100ml

 

The current ACPO guidance on drink driving and the evidential breath test machine is that up to 39 the driver is not charged. 40-49 the driver is offered a blood or urine test, and 50+ is goodnight Vienna.

[Bravot]

And lets not forget that someone can still be prosecuted whilst under the limit if they are driving whilst unfit due to drink/drugs.

[chiefmegawatty]

95% of vehicle collisions in the UK are not drink related.

Only 5% of collisions are drink related.

The vast majority of the carnage is caused by motorists who haven't been

drinking at all.

I therefore wonder why motorists who don't drink but cause accidents don't receive an

automatic disqualification for incompetence. or driving without due care and attention.

Over the years I have known people who have lost their licence due to failing a random

breath test by a small margin without any detectable impairment of their driving standard.

These people were risking an accident but never had an accident.

I have also known people who have caused fairly serious accidents who don't drink and

were not disqualified.

I therefore conclude that according to the law, risking an accident is far more serious than actually

having an accident.

Now surely if the government wish to reduce injuries and deaths on the roads then motorists

who cause accidents should be treated equally as severely as motorists who are caught just

risking an accident.