Police offence - using handheld mobile phone (but i wasn't)

[nawidak]

Can anyone advise please
Police car stopped me on a dual carriageway and apparently saw me using my phone which is incorrect. They were driving behind me.

My car has bluetooth built in and my navigation was on but was on a phone holder. The phone holder had fell and i just picked this up which was attached to my phone.

I didn't use my phone for calls or text and was simply hearing the directions, however i am not happy with the 6 points or a fine and now thinking to take the police to court because of the false accusation, they can even go through my call history or whatsapp whatever they like.

Please help

[dx100uk]

doesnt matter - you had the device in your hand.

doesnt matter what you were or not using it for.

 

sorry.

 

dx

[nawidak]

Ah right i understand and thank you for your response however it was not used, should i accept the fine and penalty? fine is going to be reduced by 33% i believe. when will the points go away?

[dx100uk]

not recommending these ever.

but its a good indication of expiry dates.

 

4-11yrs.

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dx

[unclebulgaria67]

So if no offence was committed then ask for Magistrates hearing, where you can put your case forward.  On your phone, you should be able to get the activity history for evidence.

If Magistrates decide you did commit the offence, you may have more to pay, as the Police will no doubt add their cost amount.

[Ethel Street]

This is the Police UK advice on the law, you can use a hands-free device but mustn't hold it: "You can use hands-free mobile devices while driving your car as long as you do not hold them at any time during usage. "

https://www.police.uk/advice/advice-and-information/rs/road-safety/driving-mobile-device-use/

 

[Man in the middle]

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…and now thinking to take the police to court because of the false accusation,

You won’t need to do that. You will probably be offered a fixed penalty  (£200 and six points) for the offence. If you decline that offer you will face prosecution in court.

If you plead not guilty it will be for the court to decide whether or not you were “using” your phone whilst driving and they will do this based on the evidence from the police officers and you. The mobile phone legislation was changed in March 2022 and now doing just about anything with a mobile phone is considered to be “using” it. From your description I believe the court will find you guilty.

If you are convicted you will face a fine of half a weeks net income, a surcharge of 40% of that fine, prosecution costs which will be a minimum of £620 and six points.
 

[nawidak]

Thanks all for your kind comments and advise.

Have decided to take this to court will let you know outcome.

[dx100uk]

On 30/07/2023 at 21:08, nawidak said:

The phone holder had fell and i just picked this up which was attached to my phone.

as MITM pointed too, the rules drastically changed in 2022.

your phone was in a suction holder and it fell so you reached down to pick it up, thats still in your hand , use is not described as it having to be to your ear or you pressing icons or texting and even if not, you reached down to pick something up. thats a wee bit dodgy too? it was talking via bluetooth so what prompted you to bother even doing that?

probably what alerted the police to look at you .. did it fall into the passenger footwell?

 

[nawidak]

It just dropped near my lap near gearbox department. I only follow bluetooth sound on directions so police officer could not have seen me with a phone at all as they were behind me. I just thought id try place it back again.

[dx100uk]

i get your point. i also get your semantics of the situation.....but... 

On 30/07/2023 at 21:08, nawidak said:

The phone holder had fell and i just picked this up which was attached to my phone.

when they stopped you, they obv clocked what the holder held...a phone.

it's p'haps 6 of one or 1/2 a dozen of the other. 

but equally was it dangerous for you to reach down and get it.? was it on the floor by the pedals, could it have fouled your control of the car?

if it just fell in you lap , you simply picked it up and stuck it back down? one handed or bother hands off the wheel?

[nawidak]

i love this forum and appreciate all the comments.

Yes it was near my lap and it was a split second only and the car didnt lose control and both hands were on there. If you read the officers statement its so unreal. The officet who also stepped out said look because your license is clean take it to court.

[Man in the middle]

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...and the car didnt lose control

That is irrelevant as the issue of control oft the vehicle is not an element of the offence.

 

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...and both hands were on there.

Then how did you pick it up? How many hands do you have?

 

Quote

If you read the officers statement its so unreal.

Would you care to post it up here (suitably redacted) so we can comment.

If you plead Not Guilty you will have to ask for the officer who made the statement to attend so that you can cross-examine him to cast doubt on his evidence (unless, as it stands, it does not support the charge).

Do you feel able to do that?

My view is that if there is evidence that you picked up the phone (and you don't seem to dispute that you did) then the court will find that you were using it.

It doesn't matter what else you were or were not doing with it. The principal point of the law is to prevent people faffing about with hand-held phones whilst driving. As soon as it leaves its secure place your phone becomes "hand held" and you were faffing about with it.

If I see the officer's statement I'll reconsider. But purely on your version of events I stand by my earlier comment.

[dx100uk]

still no clearer here upon your actions, if hands left the wheel???

scan to pdf only.

read upload

 

dx

[nawidak]

all noted thanks all.

Please see statement attached.

There is no way they could have seen me holding the phone holder from behind or on the side. i still stand with taking them to court and going

2nd statement attached.

 

Edited August 3, 2023 by Ethel Street
Personal information showing

[Ethel Street]

@nawidak I have had to remove the two police statements that you posted because they show your personal information, including your name, address, date of birth and car registration number. This could be copied and used by scammers.

Please can you repost with all your personal information covered up.

Having read their statements I believe it will end badly for you if you take this to court and use the defence that the police could not have seen you holding the phone. Two police officers have both signed witness statements that they saw you holding the phone as they drove alongside your car.

So your defence amounts to saying that they both lied in their witness statements but you have no evidence to show that they lied other than your opinion. Does it seem likely to you that magistrates will accept just on your say so that two police officers have lied? It doesn't seem at all likely to me.

[nawidak]

Its okay i dont mind and thanks.

 

But if there is no photographic evidence and the phone holder wasnt my phone but they could have midjudged the item in my hand how will the court go in favor of them? 

[Ethel Street]

Even if you don't mind having all that personal information on line for anyone to read CAG minds! So could you repost it please with your personal information covered up so that others contributing to this thread can see the police statements and advise you better.

Thanks

[nawidak]

all noted will do and thanks again for your advise much appreciated as always

[Man in the middle]

Since it seems we're not likely to see the statements I'll go on what the Site Team has said about them.

If you have statements from two police officers (who have nothing to gain and everything to lose by committing perjury) that say they saw you handling your phone, you will have to ask them both to attend court and give evidence in person. After they have done so (with their "live" evidence almost certainly agreeing with their written statements) you will have the opportunity to question them. What will you ask them? SImply calling them liars will end badly. Suggesting they were "mistaken" is the way to go, so why were they mistaken? Do you suggest they couldn't see you?

After that, you will have the opportunity to give evidence in your defence (though you don't have to). What will you say? You've told us on here that you picked up your phone cradle, with the phone attached to it, after it had fallen.Will you tell the court that? Bear in mind that after you have given your evidence you can be questioned (by the prosecutor). 

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But if there is no photographic evidence and the phone holder wasnt my phone..

But you said the phone was attached to the holder. The officers' evidence is what the prosecution will rely on to convict you. 

I wish you every success with your defence. Do let us know how it goes.