How to discuss/understand presented speeding photos and data set before pleading

[drive123]

I have struggled with being able to discuss reasonably the information (evidence) presented when you are about to be charged with a speeding offence.

You go online and there is a set of several photos from some way awy, passing and going away.  amongst these is a data set
Date, Time, Loc, Speed Limit, Speed, Distance, etc and included in these is a data item   "Manual: Rear Plate"

I was going to be charged with doing 50 in a 30.  The 30 section was a very short stretch of Dual carriage way (no houses) before a short stretch of the 40 on the dual carriage way followed soon after by National speed limit.  The speed trap is not in the long stretch of houses (where no-one exceeds 30 ever) before the dual carriage way but On the dual carriage way only on the short stretch before the 40 sign.   Some of the photos were in a 30 section and some of the photos were in the 40 section, the rear photos were in the 40 section.

The information said if you had questions contact the Safer Roads Unit.  I asked over several emails what was theactual meaning of the data item "Manual: Rear Plate" and its value.   They seemed unable to undestand the question and unable to give a meaningful response, simply saying in a variety of different ways:
things like:
"That's just what we always set IT to" , "We ALWAYS set IT to that in case it's a motor bike", "it does not effect you, it is still an offence"

So, no answer to the what the data item actually is and what it actually means to set it to "Rear Plate" .  A reasonable guess would be that it means it is a manual camera and the shot that relates to the offence is of a rear plate (and so 50 in a40 not 50 in a 30, a significantly different offence).  I suggested this and explained the reason why I thought it was important, but they neither confirmed nor denied, but did not seem to understand, but just kept repeating things like the above.

Finally they said if I delayed saying that I was the driver it would be an additional offence.  So I thought well, that does not admit the offence, I shall do that and continue the discussion.  However when I continued the discussion they said because a Justice Procedure Notice had been issued I could nolonger discuss the matter with them.  Also there is no duty to disclose any evidence unless I submit a not guilty plea.  So I was a bit stumped.   It's not like burglary or murder, you may not actually KNOW for certain or recall that you were or were not speeding and so being able to properly discuss and understand what they are presenting to you and what it means is helpful to weigh it uo and say that sounds right.  From this it sounds like they could actually have present me with nothing except the written charge unless I pleaded not guilty - no photos, nothing.

After weighing things up and being told by others it's very unlikey you would win in court, I pleaded guilty and included a detailed apology and request for leniency.  I was fined £700 and got 6 points, a bit harsh for the context I though.  40 in a 50 may have been a speed awareness course.

I am now very focused on speed limits (often takes my attention away from driving there are so many changes - there is a section on one road where it drops from 40 to 30 for 10 seconds then back to 40, others the other way around - why not just leave it all 30 - less distracting).  My local area is predominantly 20mph (long queus of irritaed cars behind me) - even wide roads with little traffic, no junctions and set back houses with big gates, then tiny busy bus routes with schools and all kinds of hazards, 30 or 40!  Car parks entrance roads and sometimes the car park itself with Highway Code red circle signs for 10 or even 5 MPH !!!  Very anoying for others if you actually try to observe these, but car parks are under highway code as public highwyas AFAIK.

Anyway - hopefully I won't get caught again, but if I do - how could I handle better the discussion about the photos and the data.  I feel like it would be better for the police to provide very clear longhand explanation along with the photos and clear footnaotes for each piece of data.

Thanks.

 

 

 

Edited March 10 by drive123

[dx100uk]

because motor bikes dont have front number plates.....

[drive123]

I really don't understand.

I still don't know what the field actually means. 

If it means what I suggest and the reason it is always set to what it is set to is the suggested reason, then it will always be right for a very large minority of vehicles, bikes, but serve no purpose since they only have a rear plate anyway and you will never know if it's right or not for the very large majority of vehicles, cars.

Seems a bit odd to even have the field at all and always set it that way.  It becomes meaningless and serves no purpose.

[dx100uk]

how else do they capture the reg number of the offender if they are on a bike...

[drive123]

I still don't understand.  What I am wondering is what is the meaning and useful purpose of the data item.

Does it mean anything generic, does it mean what I suggested or something else.

[dx100uk]

it is a series of 3 speeding cameras that all vehicles cant avoid passing through.

ONE of them must be set to catch the reg number of vehicles without a front numberplate ...as simple as that.

of the 3 they choose the middle one .

cant understand what you are getting so confused about.

[drive123]

It's a handheld.  There's several images and just one data set with a number of items, name: value pairs.

All shots are the same vehicle of course, multiple include the reg plate.

If "Manual: Rear plate" means "the rear shot is the shot offence is based on" then the quoted offence is wrong.

If "Manual: Rear plate" means "use this image to look at the reg" then the data item is superfluous, the are all of the same vehicle, any shot with the reg is useful.  Making clear which image is the offence is the most important thing if the images are in different limits.   All images obviously have the same reg just look at any image with a reg to know reg.

To say the data item has a number of values it can be set to but we always set it to Manual rear plate 'in case' it is a motorbike doesn't seem to make sense to me.

 

But I guess I'm just a bit dumb!

 

 

Edited March 10 by drive123

[dx100uk]

what road where.