Help! Summons to court after paying FPN

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

It does contain Road Traffic Act violations. I can find no list otherwise that states it's a criminal offence.

A different set of offences and law/ regulation.

If you have a query as to how such offence (s) as yours may affect a passport application contact the UK Passport Office.

[sigkap87]

Guilty of a road traffic offense, absolutely. Not a criminal one. I asked a magistrate we know and he said it's not seen as a criminal offense, it's seen as a minor traffic offense. I still can't see any guidance that says otherwise.

[Aretnap]

Guilty of a road traffic offense, absolutely. Not a criminal one. I asked a magistrate we know and he said it's not seen as a criminal offense, it's seen as a minor traffic offense. I still can't see any guidance that says otherwise.

Road traffic offences are criminal offences. There's no such thing as a non-criminal offence. hence every piece of legislation which creates an offence, from speeding to rape simply says "offence" without feeling the need to classify them into criminal and non-criminal offences.

 

Your magistrate friend may mean that it's not a recordable offence in that it does not lead to a criminal record in the normal sense (recordable offences are basically ones for which you can be sent to prison), however from the link I posted above clearly it is something which the Home Office regard as relevant to citizenship applications.

[sigkap87]

Yes I think you're right and that's what he meant. Makes sense when you put it that way. I had pictured having to declare myself a "criminal" when going abroad which is apparently not the case.

 

What I fail go understand is why, given the same offence, it makes all the difference to home office whether it was settled by FPN or in court. Both have the same outcome (usually), therefore that part makes no sense to me! Anyway, have contacted an immigration lawyer about that one.

[stu007]

You may have been driving for 6 month with a US Driving Licence but how long have you actually been resident in the UK are you an international student?

[sigkap87]

I've been here for 12 years. Too scared to drive but moving and having children has given me no option so started recently.

[Aretnap]

AIUI your US licence can only be used here for 12 months from the date you become resident in Britain - not 12 months fromtt the date you first drive here.I wonder if that was part of the reason they didn't laccept the payment of the fixed penalty - though if they picked up on that it's odd that they didn't also charge you with driving otherwise than in accordance with a licence. Going forward though it sounds like you ned to get a UK licence as soon as possible.

 

I assume that the thinking behind differentiating between fixed penalties and actual convictions is that minor traffic offences are usually dealt with by fixed penalties, and if you end up in court it's normally because it's a more serious offence (eg driving a long way over the speed limit) or because you've already had multiple fixed penalties. The situation of someone who'd normally get a fixed penalty ending up in court because of an administrative error doesn't seem to be covered in the guidance. I'd certainly hope that that you'd be able to get citizenship despite this but I don't know - you need to speak to someone who understands the system. The immigration lawyer sounds like a good place to start.

[Nimrod205]

You are not ineligible for a British Passport. In this document "GUIDE AN - Naturalisation as a British citizen – A guide for applicants

 

3.6 – 3.7 You must give details of all criminal convictions both within and outside the United Kingdom. These include road traffic offences. Fixed penalty notices will not normally be taken in to account unless:

•you have failed to pay and there were criminal proceedings as a result; or

•you have received numerous fixed penalty notices.

 

Source:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/318570/2902467-Guide_AN_v1_0.pdf

[stu007]

Hi

 

Aretnap is correct it is 12 months from when you first drive in the UK using your us driving licence for a period of 12 months only which starts from when you became resident in the UK not from when you first drove a vehicle using your US Driving Licence in the UK.

 

You can only drive in the UK on your US Driving Licence for 12 months from when you became resident in the UK (As OP points out in post#31 was 12 yrs ago). After being resident in the UK for 12 months your US Driving Licence become invalid and you must then apply for a UK provisional licence and pass the UK Theory and the Car Practical Tests to obtain a Full UK Driving Licence.

 

Also what Insurance did you have in place for the vehicle you were driving?

Edited August 9, 2014 by stu007

[sigkap87]

Well I'm 9 months pregnant now so not much I can do. Ill have to get full license when I can, hopefully before jan. If they want to now get me on loads of technicalities than whatever, I can't stress about this anymore, I have more important things on my plate.

 

Thank you nimrod for the guidance, I will show the immigration lawyer who told me I have no case and have to wait 3 years.

[honeybee13]

Well I'm 9 months pregnant now so not much I can do. Ill have to get full license when I can, hopefully before jan. If they want to now get me on loads of technicalities than whatever, I can't stress about this anymore, I have more important things on my plate.

 

Thank you nimrod for the guidance, I will show the immigration lawyer who told me I have no case and have to wait 3 years.

 

Hello there.

 

I hope it all goes well with the baby. Have you stopped driving now? I'm just concerned that if you're stopped again it could be worse next time.

 

HB

[sigkap87]

No. I haven't been told by anyone I have to and that would be virtually impossible as well. If I have to chance it for a few months then that's what I'll do...and not go v far!!!

[BazzaS]

I'm 9 months pregnant now so not much I can do. Ill have to get full license when I can, hopefully before jan. If they want to now get me on loads of technicalities than whatever, I can't stress about this anymore, I have more important things on my plate.

 

Thank you nimrod for the guidance, I will show the immigration lawyer who told me I have no case and have to wait 3 years.

 

You are not ineligible for a British Passport. In this document "GUIDE AN - Naturalisation as a British citizen – A guide for applicants

 

 

 

Source:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/318570/2902467-Guide_AN_v1_0.pdf

 

 

But it isn't an FPN once it has gone to court!.

I doubt it can be disregarded once it has gone to court

 

No. I haven't been told by anyone I have to and that would be virtually impossible as well. If I have to chance it for a few months then that's what I'll do...and not go v far!!!

 

You've been told here, and anyhow "ignorance of the law is no defence"

 

If you chance it : even if you got the first "wound back" to an FPN, multiple FPN's could adversely affect your naturalisation application.

 

Do you want the benefits of citizenship without accepting the responsibilities?

[citizenB]

If your US driving licence is no longer valid in this country then I suspect your insurance will not be valid either.

 

If you were to have an accident, then this could have catastrophic consequences.. not just for you, but for anyone else who might be involved.

[unclebulgaria67]

If your US driving licence is no longer valid in this country then I suspect your insurance will not be valid either.

 

If you were to have an accident, then this could have catastrophic consequences.. not just for you, but for anyone else who might be involved.

 

Yes the Insurance would not be valid, because I doubt it has been declared that they have a US driving licence which may no longer be valid.

 

Surprised that the Police did not realise that there were other issues or perhaps if they did they decided not to pursue them.

 

Suggest that you don't drive again in the UK until your licence has been sorted out and you have made sure any Insurance is issued on the correct basis.

 

https://www.gov.uk/exchange-foreign-driving-licence

[Aretnap]

No. I haven't been told by anyone I have to and that would be virtually impossible as well. If I have to chance it for a few months then that's what I'll do...and not go v far!!!

Nobody's going to tell you that you have to stop (until you end up in court, by which point it's too late) - the onus is on you to ensure that you're entitlement to drive is valid.

 

It's your choice of course, but be aware that you're driving without a valid licence and, depending on the terms of your policy, quite possibly without insurance as well. On top of being very expensive in their own right, being convicted of either of those things would pretty much scupper any remaining chance you have of getting citizenship in the next few years.

[Aretnap]

If you were to have an accident, then this could have catastrophic consequences.. not just for you, but for anyone else who might be involved.

That's melodramatic - anyone else involved could still claim compensation from the OP's insurers (it's extremely difficult for an insurer to avoid their liabilities to third parties, even where the policy is not valid), or in the worst case scenario the MIB.

 

not that that makes driving without insurance a good idea of course.

[Raykay]

Both. One from court saying I have 3 points. Another from DVLA asking for license.

 

 

That normally follows after a conviction at court where a licence is not produced, the court award the points and then notified the DVLA of them, who have asked for your licence so that it can be updated - they may not know that you have a USA licence.

[honeybee13]

That's melodramatic - anyone else involved could still claim compensation from the OP's insurers (it's extremely difficult for an insurer to avoid their liabilities to third parties, even where the policy is not valid), or in the worst case scenario the MIB.

 

not that that makes driving without insurance a good idea of course.

 

But driving without a valid licence is 3-6 points as I understand it and driving without insurance is 6 points and a FPN or a large fine and disqualification.

 

If stopped for this, the OP could end up with a shadow licence with too many points to be able to drive, or have I missed something?

 

HB

[Aretnap]

But driving without a valid licence is 3-6 points as I understand it and driving without insurance is 6 points and a FPN or a large fine and disqualification.

 

If stopped for this, the OP could end up with a shadow licence with too many points to be able to drive, or have I missed something?

 

HB

Generally speaking with two offences committed on the same occasion she'd only get the points for the more serious one, so at worst 6-8.

 

I also don't think it's obvious that she'd be uninsured. Many (probably most) insurers merely stipulate that the driver must either hold, or have held and not be disqualified from holding a valid licence. It means that people who, for example, forget to renew their licence every 3 years when they turn 70 aren't left uninsured. The OP's situation is not dissimilar - she has held a valid licence (her US licence was valid for a year) and she is not disqualified from holding one. I'm not certain that I'd want to stake my driving licence on that argument though, let alone my passport.

 

And OTOH some insurers (eg Admiral) simply stipulate that you must hold a valid licence, which would make her uninsured.

[Aretnap]

https://www.gov.uk/exchange-foreign-driving-licence

Unfortunately a US licence isn't exchangeable for a UK one. The OP will need to take a theory and practical test to get a UK licence.

[honeybee13]

Aretnap, I know you know your stuff, thank you for commenting.

 

But if the OP needs to take the new driving test, would she become a new driver in UK terms? If that's the case, any points that took the balance over 6 could mean that the UK licence is revoked?

 

HB

[Nimrod205]

She will become a New Driver upon taking her tests and subject to the New Drivers Act (1995). The points she already has on her UK provisional licence (assuming 6-8) will not prevent her from driving after passing her test. However, ANY more points gained in the two years following her test will result in revocation of her licence by the DVLA.

[sigkap87]

I have 3 points, not 6-8....

 

Being so pregnant there's little I can do about this right now. My insurance know I have a US license. I can book a 3 day intensive driving course in oct and do the road test on the day 3. Quite where and how I'm going to do a practical with a nursing baby I don't know.

 

I won't be getting a UK passport now, that's completely scuppered and to be honest not even sure I want one anymore!

[Conniff]

If you are caught without insurance it is a criminal offence and they take your car away there and then.