held in a private carpark against my will by - citypermits

[Tony P]

By 'the guys will be along', I meant someone with more knowledge than me should arrive with answers. I'm not sending the boys round on behalf of the PPCs .

 

LOL

 

Sadly not an area of knowledge to this Guy, but I enjoyed that!

[andyg55]

Haha, you had me worried there.

[dx100uk]

i've changed the title

 

that should do it

 

dx

[Bang!]

Regarding CCTV - you know the exact reason your bouncer tape was uavailable - as few offer self incriminating evidence.

 

When police shot the south amerian guy on the underground - all the videos that day disappeared too.

 

From this - the car park tapes will be checked first to see if its best to lose you or the parking attendants.

[LaughingGirl]

Eh? I was only joking earlier on this thread, but how the heck is this a civil matter just because it happened on private land? Joking apart, are the Police seriously saying that I could stop an employee from exiting my work car park (private land) and use threats to demand payment if I felt that they owed me money? I feel like I'm missing something.

[ashmk]

citypermits.co.uk like to use the work 'fine' on their website.

[pcr1]

Eh? I was only joking earlier on this thread, but how the heck is this a civil matter just because it happened on private land? Joking apart, are the Police seriously saying that I could stop an employee from exiting my work car park (private land) and use threats to demand payment if I felt that they owed me money? I feel like I'm missing something.

 

Correct. The police are wrong. Offence here is common assault, plain and simple. Assault is causing someone to fear violence (not necessarily hitting them). I would be pressing this with the police and escalating it.

[LaughingGirl]

I was thinking along the lines of demanding money with menaces, but I can see that too.

 

Either way, it's a pretty poor show.

[pcr1]

No such thing as demanding money with menaces. But s21 Theft Act 1968 defined Blackmail with reference to those terms as:

 

(1)A person is guilty of blackmail if, with a view to gain for himself or another or with intent to cause loss to another, he makes any unwarranted demand with menaces; and for this purpose a demand with menaces is unwarranted unless the person making it does so in the belief— .

(a)that he has reasonable grounds for making the demand; and .

(b)that the use of the menaces is a proper means of reinforcing the demand.

 

 

It is tenuous however because they might say they believed they had reasonable grounds (we know they didn't, but they can still believe it).

 

Far better go for assault, plain and simple. I would press it with police and ask for a senior officer if they won't take the report. Report it as assault, nothing else.

[Gbarbm]

Could the parking thug/bully be charged with affray on the grounds that he put the OP in fear?

[pcr1]

Could the parking thug/bully be charged with affray on the grounds that he put the OP in fear?

 

It's assault, affray doesn't really stand up. But sections 4 and 4A Public Order Act 1986 might work too.

 

http://www.penmanjohnson.com/ForIndividuals/CriminalDefence/TheMeaningofCommonAssault.aspx

[andyg55]

Thanks for discussing this for me. I've not hear anything today. Anytime I hear anything I'll update you. Every time I've called the police I've used the 101 number (non emergency). I get put through to someone who isn't a police officer, and is a civilian. They always say they wouldn't touch it as there was no physical harm. I'm worried that if I report assault, and then they say "did he touch you", and I say no, the same thing will happen again. They were almost treating me as though I was wasting their time... :/

[my-spirit-soars-free]

It is nice to know that wrong doing on private property is a civil matter. Until today, I assumed that murdering my dear husband would be against the law, but it seems that as long as I do so within our house (private property) it will not be a crime.

[skyman2012]

is it still allowed to clamp in private land?

 

A friend of mine said his car been clamp in private car park in Islington, London.

 

I thought clamping was ban since last year.

[crem]

 

I thought clamping was ban since last year.

 

Nope. They are still thinking about it, talking about it, pondering changes to it, then no doubt will take another year to bring in a totally inadequate version that neither does owt or summert!

[Cardiff Devil]

I have only skim-read this thread so apologies if this has already been suggested

but as you stated you paid via credit card,

contact your credit card provider and request a chargeback.

 

Give a brief description of the events that occured (but do not mention the previous tickets)

and state that you were essentially forced to pay under duress to be allowed to leave the car park.

 

It was only a few days ago so they may still be able to reverse the charge.

 

I would contact them ASAP though.

 

 

Also I would contact the police again,

or visit your local station and make an official complaint.

 

The fact that you were forcibly blocked in a car park and made to pay for two previous "debts" to be allowed to leave is NOT a civil matter, regardless of what they may think.

 

If you don't get anywhere then ask to speak to a senior officer.

[dx100uk]

yes sorry should have mentioned chargeback long ago

 

dx

[andyg55]

Devil - Thanks very much for the advice. I contacted Natwest minutes after the event actually happened, it was the first thing I did. They immediately cancelled the payment and cancelled my card - this is what they then got so angry about!

 

I contacted Braemar Estates again today and asked for an update. They said they have contacted security who have found the footage. They describe me entering the car park at 10:02pm, I am seen on camera doing a u-turn (this is where I was blocked), and then I was seen leaving the car park at 10:17pm.

 

I asked if they saw me blocked in, but she said they are reviewing the footage themselves tomorrow, but that is all the security have reported. I will say though, if they saw me do a u turn, they will have seen me blocked in.

 

They then said they're reviewing the fobs used to gain access to the car park. Apparently this will help them identify who they were. This now makes me worried though, as I don't have a 'legal' fob. It's a fob I kept and never returned from when I used to live there. Hopefully they only check theirs and not mine.

 

Regarding clamping - I am baffled that clamping is legal, yet them charging for tickets isn't. This makes no sense to me. So I guess they could actually have clamped me then, and that would have been legal?

 

Who do I ask for a copy of the CCTV do you think?

 

Also, does the fact I 'owe' them about 20 parking fines mean I'm in the wrong at all? I don't want to go to court if they might swing in their favour because I 'owe' them so much money...

[Surfer01]

The crime here is being detained against your will.

[Tony P]

The crime here is being detained against your will.

 

I thought he was free to walk away - that is not being detained.

It is the car that was detained. A different matter?

[Cardiff Devil]

It's still an unlawful seizure of property. They can't simply take someone's car and hold it to ransom over a supposed unpaid parking debt. That's what the courts system is there for.

[ManxRed]

They can't sieze property without a court warrant, which they cannot obtain unless they take you to court, you lose, and then you still refuse to pay. And even then the warrant has to be executed by court appointed bailiffs, they can't do it themselves. So them clamping for unpaid invoices would be completely illegal.

[Old Snowy]

Before the security "conveniently" lose any relevant footage I suggest you write to them formally and put them on notice that you will require all relevant footage (including that from the arrival on site of the clampers and of any checks or patrols they made of the site right through to the point where they left site) in connection with court proceedings and ask that they retain it. You might also draw their attention to the provisions of s.35 Data Protection Act. This would allow them to disclose the footage - which will also contain personal data of the clampers - to you as it is required in connection with proceedings.

 

You might be able to obtain the footage by making a subject access request but this will cost you £10 and they may edit it down to footage just showing you.

 

Leaving things for any length of time may mean that the footage drops of and will be lost. I therefore suggest you make the request well in advance of any retention limit (usually 28 days) they may have.

[stu007]

Hi

 

Hope this may be of some help ref cctv footage: