CEL ANPR PCN - 12 min stay trying to get app to work ! - Palmyra Pyramid Parking

[AngryMan05]

I recently received a letter from CEL saying I owe £60.

I entered the car park and downloaded the app.

I then spent the next 12 minutes (the limit is 10 minutes stay that you can stay without any "offence" being committed but I wasn't keeping track as i was trying to get the app to connect to my account)

I was unsuccessful

drove to a car park opposite (different land owner) that has a card reader.

I parked there instead.

Do I have a case not to pay?

£60 seems excessive for being 2 minutes over the allowance.

[honeybee13]

Hello, welcome to CAG.

If you still have the original parking ticket, please could you let us have the details requested in this sticky thread? Then we can start advising you.

Best, HB

[Nicky Boy]

It's just a made up rules that they can't enforce. Against their own trade association code of practice for a start...

[honeybee13]

I hope @AngryMan05 comes back and lets us have some more information so we can help.

HB

[dx100uk]

thread title updated

dx

[AngryMan05]

For PCN's received through the post [ANPR camera capture]

Please answer the following questions.

1 Date of the infringement 3rd December 2023

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] Issue date 8th December 

3 Date received 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] Y

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] N

 Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up N

7 Who is the parking company? Civil Enforcement

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Pyramid Arts Centre, Palmyra Sq South, Warrington, WA1 1BL
For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. BPA

2023-12-08 CEL PCN NTK offence 3-12-23.pdf

[dx100uk]

had to hide that

its totally unredacted.

now go back and read upload carefully!!

use the sites listed.

dx

 

[dx100uk]

PCN file converted to PDF

post unhidden.

 

[lookinforinfo]

The PCN appears to give two reasons for its issue. No fee paid and no Permit.

If you were in an area that required a permit you were not allowed to park there without one. As that sign would have been a prohibitory one, ie no permit-do not park -there is no offer of a contract there. You cannot breach a contract if they never offered you a contract.

Also under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012  the Section 9 [2][a] they are required to specify the period of parking. They failed and only quoted an Incident date with the times you entered and left the car park. 

As it would have taken several minutes to find a parking spot, manoeuvre the car into the parking space making sure that the car wheels were within the lines and then leaving the parking place and exiting the car park obviously involved a fair amount of time . And that does not take into account things like having to possibly stop for pedestrians crossing in front of the car plus a possible traffic queue waiting to leave the car park.

On top of that as there app. was so poor you were unable to pay the fee, which is what you wanted to do. So there was either a frustration of contract and/or  you were not parked but trying to get permission to park.

You sensibly left when you could not make payment but apparently not fast enough for CEL.

This is what the BPA have to say on Consideration periods.

"13.1 The driver must have the chance to consider the Terms and Conditions before entering into the ‘parking contract’ with you. If, having had that opportunity, the driver decides not to park but chooses to leave the car park, you must provide them with a reasonable consideration period to leave, before the driver can be bound by your parking contract. The amount of time in these instances will vary dependant on site size and type but it must be a minimum of 5 minutes."

So you were unable to comply with the regulations because of their poor app. So you had not entered the "parking contract" and the Consideration period must be a MINIMUM of 5 minutes.