VCS/Elms CCTV PCN PAPLOC - Claimform - Appealed - no stopping - Leeds Bradford Airport

[HappyHolidays]

Which Court have you received the claim from ?

1. MCOL Northampton N1 ?  NN1 2LH

Name of the Claimant :  VCS Ltd, Sheffield S9 1XH

Claimants Solicitors: ELMS Legal Ltd

Date of issue – 6 Mar 2024

Date for AOS - 22 Mar 2024

Date to submit Defence - 05-04-2024

What is the claim for – 
Particulars of Claim

1. The Claim is for a breach of contract for breaching the terms and conditions set on private land.

2.The Defendant's vehicle, XXXXXX  was identified in the Leeds Bradford Airport Roadways on the 28/07/2023 in breach of the advertised terms and conditions; namely Stopping in a zone where stopping is prohibited.

3. At all material times the Defendant was the registered keeper and/or driver.

4. The terms and conditions upon entering private land were clearly displayed at the entrance and in prominent locations. The sign was the offer and the act of entering private land was the acceptance of the offer hereby entering into a contract by conduct.

5. The signs specifically detail the terms and conditions and the consequences of failure to comply, namely a parking charge notice will be issued, and the Defendant has failed to settle the outstanding liability.

6. The Claimant seeks the recovery of the parking charge notice, contractual costs and interest.

What is the value of the claim?

Amount Claimed £170

court fees £35

legal rep fees £50

Total Amount £255

Have you moved since the issuance of the PCN? (yes. I stopped for 28 seconds (according to them) to read a sign

Did you receive a letter of Claim With A reply Pack wanting I&E etc about 1mth before the claimform? Yes. Letter Before Claim dated 01 Dec 2023

 

 

docs 1.pdf

[dx100uk]

please note your corrected dates for AOS and defence filing.

pdf files merged and properly redacted

thread title updated

............................

pop up on the bulk court website detailed on the claimform.
[if it is not working return after the w/end or the next day if week time]
.
When you select ‘Register’, you will be taken to a screen titled ‘Sign in using Government Gateway’. 
Choose ‘Create sign in details’ to register for the first time. 
You will be asked to provide your name, email address, set a password and a memorable recovery word.

You will be emailed your Government Gateway 12-digit User ID. 
You should make a note of your memorable word, or password as these are not included in the email.<<**IMPORTANT**

 then log in to the bulk court Website
.
 select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box.
.
 then using the details required from the claimform
.
defend all
leave jurisdiction unticked
 you DO NOT file a defence at this time
[BUT you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 ]
click thru to the end
confirm and exit the website

.get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?486334-CPR-31.14-Request-to-use-on-receipt-of-a-PPC-(-Private-Land-Parking-Court-Claim

type your name ONLY

no need to sign anything

.you DO NOT await the return of paperwork.

you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform.

[lookinforinfo]

Hi and welcome to the Forum. All airports are covered by Byelaws which means that the charge cannot be transferred from the driver to the keeper. Only the driver is now liable for the charge. If you haven't appealed and revealed who was driving you will win hands down. Even if you have admitted who was driving there are still several good chances that you won't have to pay a penny even if you end up in Court.

To get a clearer picture which help you avoid payment could you please complete the following questions including the original PCN. Please redact your name. address and car vrm but do include  the dates and times.

[FTMDave]

 

[dx100uk]

BTW: i've put up a new version of the docs  in post 1 as i noticed they were blurred,  i've now cleaned my screen and now they are alot clearer.. (well that my excuse).

d

 

[HappyHolidays]

I will post the CPR31 request to the solicitors in the morning.

I have completed my AOS on the moneyclain website saying I defend all of the claim.

Initially when I received the Charge Notice - Notice to Keeper, I appealed & admitted to being the driver.

I hadn't been in this situation before so didn't know any better.

The attached are my appeal & their response.

I realise I haven't made things easy on myself but I believed as I only stopped briefly to read a sign then it would be a straight forward cancellation. Little did I know....

 

 

I think these are the questions you wanted answering....

1 Date of the infringement 28/07/2023

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 07/08/2023

3 Date received Not sure

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] No

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes. Attached earlier

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] Yes

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up Yes - see earlier attachement

7 Who is the parking company? VCS Ltd

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Leeds Bradford airport by the entrance to "Premium Short Stay car park" I stopped to read the sign as I was unsure if it was the 1hr free parking. Which it wasn't
 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. IAS

Appeal+reply.pdf

[FTMDave]

Thanks for filling in the second sticky.

It's a pity you outed yourself as the driver as you would have been home & dry had you not done so.  Still, live & learn and all that.  All of us on the forum have made legal mistakes, especially if we've found ourselves in a situation for the first time.

It was also a bad idea not to reply to the Letter of Claim.  The PPCs are on the look out for people who ignore the LoC as they think they may ignore a claim form too so the PPC gets an easy default win.

Can you show us on Google Earth exactly where you stopped?  I've had a look but can't find it.  You say you had to stop anyway as there was a barrier so this could be a useful avenue to go down.

 

[HappyHolidays]

Hi. It happened where the black arrow is near the centre of the attached picture.

It doesn't look anything like this now as there are now new buildings & barriers into the car park.

It has changed again recently as I drove there yesterday to take some pictures for evidence.

The "Premium Short Stay" car park is now a "Meet & Greet" car park so I don't have pictures of the sign I stopped to read

Location.pdf

 

A quick question. The initial letter says "Charge Notice (CN) Notice to Keeper (NTK).

The county court claim document talks about a parking charge notice a couple of times but not a Charge Notice. Does this matter?

Both the "Urgent: Notification of Instruction" & "Urgent: Notification of Issue of Proceedings" both state PCN as well

Thanks

[dx100uk]

not an issue

[HappyHolidays]

I found some photos on google of how it was

 

PremiumShortStay.pdf

[FTMDave]

6 hours ago, HappyHolidays said:

The "Premium Short Stay" car park is now a "Meet & Greet" car park so I don't have pictures of the sign I stopped to read

Yep, after these indications I found it!

So essentially you stopped a couple of meters before an entrance and a barrier where you would have had to stop anyway.

This could be argued as de minimis.  Plus there was a sign there which encouraged you to stop.

[lookinforinfo]

Why does VCS keep doing this. they call a "No Stopping" and "No parking" rule as a contractual issue. And yet neither rule can ever form a contract as they are both prohibitory and therefore there can be no  offer fro the motorist to consider.

VCS are hoping that you do not know this and will pay up thinking all is lost when nothing could be further from the truth. You have every chance of winning despite them knowing who was driving . i was also going to say that it was surprising that they were pursuing you as the keeper as well as the driver before I realised that Elms were the solicitors.

They should know that airport land is covered by Byelaws so hhe liability lies with the driver only-the keeper  cannot be pursued. dummies.

[HappyHolidays]

Thanks for replying both.
Yes.FTMDave

I stopped just before the barrier to read the (small) signs. I didn't got to the barrier (where I would be forced to stop anyway) as I didn't want to block it for others if I found out I needed to reverse away.

lookinforinfo

I had no intention of stopping except I had no choice if I wanted to read the signs. Also I had no choice if I went to the barrier or just decided to do a 3 point turn to leave. In all these cases I couldn't leave without stopping

[Nicky Boy]

1 hour ago, HappyHolidays said:

I stopped just before the barrier to read the (small) signs. I didn't got to the barrier (where I would be forced to stop anyway) as I didn't want to block it for others if I found out I needed to reverse away.

 

1 hour ago, HappyHolidays said:

I had no intention of stopping except I had no choice if I wanted to read the signs. Also I had no choice if I went to the barrier or just decided to do a 3 point turn to leave. In all these cases I couldn't leave without stopping

Perfect defence for your witness statement!

Wouldn't worry myself much about this one...

[HappyHolidays]

I need to fill in my defence at MoneyClaim Online. 

Any suggestions how to word it? I'm not sure what detail I need to put in?

Thanks

[FTMDave]

We have a bland defence which covers all cases.  Click on

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/393251-received-a-court-claim-from-a-private-parking-speculative-invoice-how-to-deal-with-it-hereupdated-dec-2021/

and scroll down to

Q2) How should I defend?

[HappyHolidays]

They have replied to my CPR31 request with a copy of their contract with the airport.

I'm not sure if I can include this bit any more?
"3.  As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance.  The Claimant was simply contracted by the landowner to provide car-park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the car park is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner.  Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim.  "

Or is it still valid even with a contract?

[dx100uk]

who says its legally enforceable.....

[FTMDave]

It's common sense that they have a contract with the airport to manage the area.  That's not in dispute.

What is in dispute is that the airport has given them the authority to sue under their own name.  If you really have done something bad on airport land then it is the airport who should sue.

Can you upload the contract?

 

[HappyHolidays]

The wording is below

There are also photos showing the road in question being included which I haven't uploaded

Looking at the page numbers there also seems to be some pages missing. Unless it is pictures?
There are lots of pictures of Private Land - No stopping etc as well which I didn't upload

contract-merged.pdf

 

On 18/03/2024 at 12:54, Nicky Boy said:

Perfect defence for your witness statement!

Should I put this in my defence I have to file by next week, or does it wait until I get a court date etc?

Edited March 27 by lolerz
PDF's merged

[Nicky Boy]

No, detailed stuff goes in your witness statenent later on. Don't give them any clues!

On 24/03/2024 at 19:01, FTMDave said:

We have a bland defence which covers all cases.  Click on

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/393251-received-a-court-claim-from-a-private-parking-speculative-invoice-how-to-deal-with-it-hereupdated-dec-2021/

and scroll down to

Q2) How should I defend?

 

[lolerz]

PDFs Merged.

lolerz.

[Nicky Boy]

Well, it appears that the contract is with Leeds Bradford Airport Ltd.

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/02065958

 

But the owners of the airport are AMP Capital

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/12785098

 

Confirmation on their own website (Under "Recent Developments")...

https://www.leedsbradfordairport.co.uk/about-leeds-bradford-airport

 

So, the "contract" isn't valid?

[HappyHolidays]

Good to know. Thanks again

[lookinforinfo]

The contract they have sent isn't valid since it hasn't been signed by VCS and the signature of the Client  [if any ] has been redacted. 

I assume that a valid unredacted contract does exist but that is the one that will need to be produced in court. as AMP is the land owner it will require an authority of some kind from them allowing  the Leeds Bradford company to sign on its behalf. 

They don't appear to know what tailgating is-their definition is a joke. Where you have ANPR cameras  in force, a car  leaving the car park too close to another means that the camera fails to pick up the vrm of one of the vehicles . This can also occur when a high sided vehicle leaves and obscures the vrm of another vehicle. If one paid after exiting then one vehicle could avoid paying. As this is not the payment system here, one wonders the reason for such a fuss. ANPR systems are particularly  poor at  detecting and preventing tailgating hence the reason for so many double dipping cases where the tailgater returns later.

There is also another form of tailgating where the vehicle behind the first car is travelling within two seconds of the car in front. Whilst this is an offence i would doubt that VCS patrols would have the equipment necessary to check that condition. One wonders if it is a requirement of the land owner [or the Bye Laws ] and VCS are just going through the motions to mollify their client.  [This is not of much help to  Happy Holidays just me musing  Though if anyone could find a way of using it to rubbish the contract that would help HH].