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MET ANPR PCN - Overstay - double dipping? - Appealed - Misleading signage? - Starbucks (closed) 346 SouthGate Park, Stansted, CM24 1PY


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I received a Notice to Keeper from this MET site for a contravention on the 27th November, the notice was issued on the 29th November and I received it in the post on the 13th December.

Having read that you shouldn't ignore it, I posted an appeal on the same day (looks like that was a mistake?) they responded asking me to provide evidence that I didnt contravene the terms & conditions. I had entered and left the carpark,  then returned some 10 minutes or so later and they stated that there was only one entry and exit.

I responded with another appeal, this time questioning my 50 minute stay, given there is a 60 minute free parking option. The signage states that the 60 minute free period is for Southgate customers only, ie Starbucks. But that was shut at the time I arrived in the car park, there is also nothing to state that you have to log your stay on the ring go app for this free period (why would you if its free?) it also doesnt say that the free period is void if the Starbucks is closed. I did not leave the car to go any other site. ie McDonalds.

i have responded again pointing these discrepancies out, despite them saying i have reached the end of their appeals process.  I have responded as the Registered Keeper, and have been very careful with my wording so as to not confirm who the driver was.

Their responses have used pretty aggressive language, with the threat of court action if the fee isnt paid. They have also supplied a POPLA verification code. Should I go ahead and appeal via POPLA, or just wait to see if they drop it to their debt resolution agents or issue a court summons?

I was interested by this wording -

By law we are also required to inform you that Ombudsman Services (www.ombudsman-services.org) provides an alternative dispute resolution service that would be competent to deal with your appeal. However, we have not chosen to participate in their alternative dispute resolution service. As such should you wish to appeal then you must do so to POPLA as explained above.

Does this indicate that MET are in bed with POPLA?

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HI Essex and welcome to CAG.

Appeals are a waste of time, but it looks like you've been canny with them and not outed the driver... Well done!

We know this location very well!

Could you please fill in this sticky and we'll take it from there...

 

We could do with some help from you.

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Thanks!

For PCN's received through the post [ANPR camera capture]

(must be received within 14 days from the Incident)

Please answer the following questions.

1 Date of the infringement 27th November 2023

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 29th November 2023

3 Date received 13th December 2023

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] N

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? yes

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] yes

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up N

7 Who is the parking company? MET Parking

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Southgate Park, Stansted

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. N
 

I've just realised I didn't keep copies of my appeal text (on the Met appeals page) and i can't see a way to retrieve them from the site?

 

2023-11-29 NTK for PCN 2023-11-27.pdf

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  • dx100uk changed the title to MET ANPR PCN - double dipping? - Appealed -The infamous Southgate Met Car Park - Misleading signage?

thread title updated.

double dipping here? 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Posted (edited)

They have said there is only one recorded entry and departure, which is incorrect. However, I have no proof of me leaving and returning as the dashcam footage has been overwritten.

The line they seem to be taking is because Starbucks was closed (i didn't know that until arriving) technically you can't be a customer and the 60 minute free parking is therefore not available, and you have to pay. Yet there is nothing on the signage that confirms this to be the case. There is nothing to state that you must use the app to take advantage of the free parking period.

This is their response to the appeal;

'The terms and conditions of parking are clearly stated on signs prominently displayed in this area. These include that the car park is a pay by phone car park and that there is 60 minutes free stay for Southgate Park customers. Your vehicle was observed parked in breach of these terms as the premises located at Southgate Park (Starbucks) was closed at the time and no payment was made for your stay, therefore we believe the charge was issued correctly and we are upholding it.

We are confident there are sufficient signs at this location bringing the terms and conditions of parking to the attention of motorists and it remains the driver's responsibility to check the signs where they park and comply with the terms and conditions.

This decision, which has been based on the facts of the case and takes into account our consideration of any mitigating circumstances, is our final decision. You have reached the end of our internal appeals procedure and you now have a number of options'

southgatesignage.pdf

Edited by EssexBiker
typo
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google location

facebook location

smart watches

phones

there was more than one in the car?

one of them must have location data surely?

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Google maps location sharing switched off

Don't have a personal facebook account

Don't wear a watch

All location tracking switched off on phone

Just one person in the car

My pitch for appeal is around the signage and its lack of clarity. I may not have any chance, but its worth a look rather than to give these shysters £60

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no. wont work.

there are 100's of threads here about this site.

i suggest you get reading most of them.

Programmable Search Engine (google.com)

clickme^^

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • dx100uk changed the title to MET ANPR PCN - double dipping? - Appealed - Misleading signage? - Starbucks (closed) 346 SouthGate Park, Stansted, CM24 1PY

This is a scam site.

It has been exposed as a scam site on national television.

Logically there is no point in appealing to the very people who set up the scam site.

You can give them £100 to make the matter go away - or fight them.  Up to you.  We would prefer you did the latter.

This Cagger got on to the organ grinder and got the charge cancelled.  Have a read of the whole thread.  This is the road to go down  https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/462450-met-anpr-pcn-occupants-left-southgate-premises-appeal-refused-starbucksmcdonalds-southgate-park-stansted-airport-cm24-1py-cancelled-by-euro-garages/

 

  • Like 1

We could do with some help from you.

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Just a thought on the double dipping...

Would it be worth the OP making a SAR request?

Bear in mind that this site is monitored by CCTV. It has to be, to catch the human "reverses trespassers".

According to the they, the OP was in the car park for 50 minutes, he could request all video for that 50 minutes, which should show his departure / return.

Not sure how much this would help, because the they would still say that it was unauthorised parking.

But, it would certainly highlight the unreliability of their system.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

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A good thought thanks, I may do that. 

I have today e-mailed Euro Garages as suggested in another thread, which seems to have been recommended by Starbucks.

 I have since noted the signage states no return within 60 minutes of the vehicle departing, i need to be cautious with the double dipping issue.

Not withstanding, the parking charge notice was for a period of 50 minutes and there is clearly a 60 minute free parking period.

The MET Parking take seems to be that because Starbucks is closed, this free parking period isnt available, but there is no wording on the sign to support this.

It also states that you may extend your stay up to total of 3 hours using the pay by phone app. Nothing to state that you need to do so when entering and using the 60 minute free period.

The sign is either deliberately ambiguous to catch people out, or worded poorly unintentionally (yeah right) but in either case I think i's be happy to stand up in court and argue the case?

I'll see what EuroGarages come up with.

I suspect MET Parking will not respond to my second appeal response as they stated;

Quote

This decision, which has been based on the facts of the case and takes into account our consideration of any mitigating circumstances, is our final decision. You have reached the end of our internal appeals procedure

It seems they only allow one appeal, but again this is not stated or clarified in any of their wording.

Met Parking are so dodgy its unbelievable

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43 minutes ago, EssexBiker said:

It seems they only allow one appeal, but again this is not stated or clarified in any of their wording.

It's in their dodgy Code Of Practice.

43 minutes ago, EssexBiker said:

Met Parking are so dodgy its unbelievable

Not just them!

We could do with some help from you.

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  • dx100uk changed the title to MET ANPR PCN - Overstay - double dipping? - Appealed - Misleading signage? - Starbucks (closed) 346 SouthGate Park, Stansted, CM24 1PY
1 hour ago, EssexBiker said:

It seems they only allow one appeal, but again this is not stated or clarified in any of their wording.

you should never appeal anyway. so immaterial

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

is it worth appealing via POPLA, or is it just a case of sitting it out and seeing how far they progress it. I realise I'm going to be notified the reduced fee period has elapsed and I then assume a string of demands will follow, followed by a threat of DCA and possibly court action.

I've also asked for 50 minutes of CCTV footage of the alleged parking violation, although they have bluntly told me any further correspondence may not receive a response.

Edited by EssexBiker
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9 minutes ago, EssexBiker said:

is it worth appealing via POPLA, or is it just a case of sitting it out and seeing how far they progress it.

We've already advised against any appeals... don't.

9 minutes ago, EssexBiker said:

I've also asked for 50 minutes of CCTV footage of the alleged parking violation, although they have bluntly told me any further correspondence may not receive a response.

If you have actually sent them an official SAR <<click me, they MUST comply. (You can sue them if they don't).

Can you post up what you've actually sent?

Also please get into the habit of posting stuff up for advice before you send it...

We're here to help you... Don't keep going rogue!

We could do with some help from you.

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As Nick asked - was the request for the 50 minutes' CCTV just in a normal letter or did you send them an official SAR?

We could do with some help from you.

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OK, so if you click on the word SAR then a thread will pop up with a SAR template letter.

I would change the paragraph -

Please supply me with copies of all the data which you hold on me in relation to any matter and in any form and for any period of time.

to

Please supply me with copies of all the data which you hold on me in relation to any matter and in any form and for any period of time, and in particular the CCTV footage of vehicle XXXXX of which I am the registered keeper

Send it off today, signed, by 2nd class mail and get a free Certificate of Posting from the post office.  Stick in some ID like a Council Tax bill otherwise they will use lack of ID as a reason not to reply.

If they don't reply they will be in hot water.

If they reply without the CCTV they will be in hot water.

If they reply with the CCTV they will be in hot water as presumably it will show the double dipping and that they were lying about it before.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

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Met has surprisingly responded to my e-mail, with this;

Please note that this charge was issued using ANPR cameras and not CCTV, therefore we do not have any CCTV or video footage to provide. We have enclosed all of the available photographic evidence. As previously advised, there was only 1 visit recorded for your vehicle.

As we have reached our final decision our internal appeals process is now closed, and any further correspondence received by us in respect of this charge may go unanswered.

Interestingly MET state they have no CCTV footage to provide, but given they have been supplying it in the cases of 'Reverse Trespass' I would think its safe to assume that there is permanent monitoring of the site. I'll get that SAR off to them......

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If you look at other threads, you'll see your case is atypical.

The vast majority of invoices they issue is because they have CCTV of the driver going into McDonald's.

In their minds McDonald's is in a different car park even though the line between the car parks is invisible which to them means that the driver is abusing the car park by not paying and not being a genuine customer.  A total scam, but that is the "logic".

Therefore they do have CCTV of every vehicle and are obliged to hand it over if you SAR them.  When they refuse you can both report them to the iCO and also sue them if you wish.

We could do with some help from you.

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My input into another current thread about this site...

 

You were a Southgate Park customer.

Starbucks is not mentioned anywhere on their signage.

In fact, I would say that if you actually went into Starbucks, you would be in contravention of their signage, because you would be leaving Southgate Park.🤔

Read the signage literally... That is what forms the "contract" and if a contract can be interpreted in more than one way, the consumer can choose whichever meaning they wish.

 

Refer back to this IF, IF, IF you ever need a witness statement.

 

We could do with some help from you.

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Thanks Nicky Boy, thats exactly the point i'd be happy to argue in court. The alleged period of parking was within the 60 free period, I didn't leave the site to go to mcdonalds and signage only states that you need to use the pay by phone service if you are extending the stay.

 

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I wouldn't worry about the no return feature as you weren't charged with double dipping on the PCN.

As long as you didn't reveal who was driving it will be difficult for themto prove who was driving. Especially as they have said they did not use CCTV in your case. Because the car park is on airport land covered by Byelaws the keeper cannot be made to pay a PCN. Only the driver is liable and thousands of drivers are able to drive your car.

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