UKPC 2xANPR PCNs - The Autopark, Eastgate St, Bury St Edmunds, IP33 1YQ ***Cancelled by landlord***

[ihb9]

Interested in this case.

UKPC/dcbl ANPR PCN claimform - didnt input reg - ignored everything - auto park estate, Eastgate street, Bury st Edmunds Suffolk IP33 1YQ - Page 3 - Private Land Parking Enforcement - Consumer Action Group

I visited a business on this business park for a booked appointment this past Sat and parked on the forecourt immediately outside the business I was visiting. My wife joined me later as we had quite a lot to discuss (new kitchen).

We have both visited here in the past and at that time there was no camera or parking charge.

The signage is inadequate IMHO.

I saw nothing, nor did my wife, and to be honest, if you are visiting a business for a booked appointment and parking directly outside their door ... not somewhere random nearby ... you really don't expect to need to register your parking or treat the place as if it were a public car park. Sadly the business failed to advise either of us of the need to register when we arrived.

My wife was back there again today and this time when she entered, someone advised her she needed to register. A shame they didn't do this on Sat. This was our first knowledge of this new scheme. As I say, neither of us saw their signage or would realistically expect not to b able to park right outside a business we were visiting.

Nothing has arrived yet, but from what my wife was told today and reading this, I am expecting 2x PCN to arrive in the post, one for me and a second for when my wife arrived later on Sat. £120 charge to make a legit booked visit to a business!

What is the correct approach to handling any PCNs that will arrive?

Pay the £60 per vehicle, or is there a reasonable defence given where we parked and that it was a booked appointment and signage is clearly poor as neither of us saw anything.

Fine to discourage unauthorised parking, but this was not our case.

We made a special visit to be there!

Thanks for any advice

 

[honeybee13]

Hello, welcome to CAG.

Please start a new thread/topic of your own and we'll advise you. This one is for advising Sym01.

Best, HB

[ihb9]

I visited a business on a small business park for a booked appointment this past Sat. I parked in a visitor parking bay immediately outside the front door of the business I was visiting. I was there 2 hours discussing a new kitchen. My wife joined me part-way through and again parked immediately outside the entrance to the business in a second visitor parking bay immediately next to the business front door and up against the businesses front wall. We have both visited here in the past without issue.

It seems since our earlier visits the landlord for the estate site has introduced UKPC as a private land parking agent. This is 'new', at least to us. Parking is free but requires you to register your car on a terminal inside each business. Neither of us, arriving independently, saw any notices and sadly neither of us were advised nor warned by the business that we needed to register our vehicles on entering the business ... they happily talked to me for 2 hours neglecting this 'small detail' of pretty important advice.

The following Thu my wife returned to the business as she wanted to loan a sample panel for an at-home colour test. On this visit she was warned on entering that she needed to register her car ... a shame this wasn't done on Sat. This was our first knowledge of there being any requirement to register our arrival.

On this occasion they advised of other visitors having received £100 parking charges, reduced to £60 on early payment. This caused her to going looking for signage. I have included this. Importantly....

1. This might be private land (the business estate) but it is not a car park and so you do not expect to need to pay or register your car simply for attending a legitimate appointment at a business on the estate, i.e. we were not parking and leaving our car. We were parking in a businesses visitor parking bays to visit that business
2. The signage is inadequate IMHO. See the pictures
   1. A small sign at the entrance which is both high out of your line of sight, on the inside of the turn as I approached, and shielded by being just outside an overbridge - <Turn-in to business park.jpg>
   2. There is a camera viewing the entrance again with a small sign - <Turn-in to business park2.jpg>
   3. There are signs on the wall opposite the business - <UKPC notice.jpg>. These presumably replace the old notices - <Old parking notice.jpg>. These (to me) suggest parking there in this 'public area' is subject to restrictions, not that the entire business park including a businesses 'own' visitor parking is subject to restriction
   4. Importantly: There is no signage that warn you that parking in the businesses visitor parking bays is in any way subject to restriction, as you might typically see at the head of a Blue Badge parking bay for instance
3. There is no clearly visible large sign as you might see when entering a public car parking area subject to charges or parking restriction - <ANPR notice1.jpg>, 2 and 3. Remember, this is a business park. You have an appointment with one of the businesses on the estate. You park in their visitor parking bays ... not somewhere random elsewhere on the estate ... there is no warning in the bays that their use requires free vehicle registration to avoid a charge

This morning 2x PCN arrived in the post, one for me and a second for when my wife arrived later on Sat. £120 charge to make a legit booked visit to a business!

What is the correct approach to handling these PCNs? There is an appeals process, so try that making the points above as a first step? The business are happy to confirm our appointment and support our appeal ... and so they should as advising us to register each car would have saved all this hassle.

Thanks for any advice

(pic of the visitor parking bays to follow)

[honeybee13]

Hi.

Please don't appeal, UKPC hardly ever listen and you could say something that outs you as the driver.

Perhaps you could let us have the information requested in this sticky thread and we'll advise from there. I suggest we start with your own ticket and then the guys will decide if we need another thread for your wife's one or not.

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/391121-have-you-received-a-parking-ticket-please-fill-this-out/

HB

[FTMDave]

Yes, please fill in the forum sticky.

Your photos haven't uploaded for some reason.

Can you please tell us which business park this is?  Contacting the landlord is often a route to getting these invoices cancelled.

[ihb9]

Date of the infringement Sat 11 nov 

Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] "Parking Charge Issue Date": 14-Nov-23 (is this the 'NTK'??)

Date received Fri 17-Nov-23

Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] Yes

Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes

Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] No

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up n/a

Who is the parking company? UKPC

Where exactly [carpark name and town] The Autopark, Eastgate St, Bury St Edmunds, Bury Saint Edmunds IP33 1YQ (it is  small business park, NOT a car park)

Does it say which appeals body they operate under. No ... not even on their 'legalities' page - https://ukpcappeals.co.uk/Legalities

I hope this answered everything you need.

Picture of the visitor parking bays lacking any form of warning hopefully coming from my wife ... if she remembered

Am seeing if I can get the landlord details via the business who would support our claim to have these charges cancelled ... and thank you

Meantime, pic of notice outside the showroom where we parked

I can confirm no appeal made as per your advice.

 

UKPC Parking Notice.pdf Parking Pictures.pdf

[dx100uk]

thread tidied

dx

[FTMDave]

6 hours ago, ihb9 said:

Am seeing if I can get the landlord details via the business who would support our claim to have these charges cancelled.

That would be brilliant and perhaps the key to solving this whole mess.

[ihb9]

The store have said they will contact the landlord to request cancellation of these PCN. Whether the landlord will bother to do anything about it of course, is a quite different case. We wait to see, but as you say, would be a simple clean closure ... but its all down to the landlord.

But this entire scheme, which I presume is to stop people using the place as a free car park, must be a significant issue for businesses on the estate. Take the case I first saw of the daughter going to Bury Bowl. There as pics of this in the attached <Parking pictures2.pdf>. There are signs right across the bay saying "Bury Bowl, Customer Parking". Pretty reasonable then, to presume if you are going to Bury Bow, this is the place for you to park 'unhindered'. There is then just one UKPC "Registered Users Only"  sign, stuck up in the air.

So, what is a 'Registered User' in the terms of a businesses clearly marked customer parking? The sign doesn't clearly say "You must register your car when parking here even if a customer of this business". You 'get' the idea of unauthorised parking, but if you are a customer of a business and the parking is marked customer parking, it's pretty reasonable to believe you can simply park there. You don't even go looking for parking charge/registering/restriction notices.

So how many of the businesses on this estate are now finding they have unhappy customers due to them collecting a PCN for the 'sin' of being a customer of theirs. Something is very wrong and very inadequate with the signage.

 

Edited November 18, 2023 by dx100uk
pdf already merged to earlier pdf

[Nicky Boy]

All great points for a witness statement if it ever gets that far. 

[FTMDave]

The work you have put in to take all these photos is superb.

The MO of UKPC, and indeed most of the PPCs, when they get a new contract, is to put up a pathetic amount of signs that drivers won't see so they have an excuse to send out their invoices.  If they are later forced to improve the signage due to complaints, well then they can always lie in any court action and pretend the new signs were there all along.  Win win for them.

So well done on getting your own evidence.

Amongst all the rest it could be argued that you were indeed registered - you had a registered appointment with the business.

Logically there's no point in appealing to the very spivs who have dreamt up this money-making scheme.

It's good the business is being supportive but it would be even better if they would tell you who the landlord is so you can make your own submission directly.

3 hours ago, ihb9 said:

Something is very wrong and very inadequate with the signage.

But not from the point of view of UKPC.  The signage is perfect.  It's fulfilling its role of being there but in a way that motorists won't notice so they can send out their demands for money.

[ihb9]

Thanks @FTMDave. I agree, this must be a nightmare for the businesses on the park as I can see a lot of people being caught like this. It's not a case of ignoring the signs, but if you visit a business, park in their customer/visitor parking bays, it doesn't even occur to look for 'how to pay' or obtain a free ticket/whatever. Even their terminology of "Register Users Only" doesn't really mean much. Does that mean staff working at the site? Can't apply to the customer/visitor parking bays surely...

I think it would be worth a complaint to the BPA. There needs to be clear signage on entering the business park that ALL vehicles must register to park there else face a charge. 12x18" 'Registered Users Only' signs do not convey that even if you are a legitimate visitor to/customer of a business on the estate, that you MUST register your car. There need to be far more explicit signage IMHO

[Nicky Boy]

 Complaining to BPA is pointless. They're all just one old boys club who have got together and invented a trade association to serve their own interests. 

[ihb9]

Edited November 18, 2023 by ihb9

[ihb9]

An update. The owner of the business we were visiting made some kind of direct appeal to UKPC and/or the landlord. Just heard...

Thank you for your email.

 

The two PCNs have been cancelled, no further action will be taken.

[FTMDave]

That is superb news - well done!

Who exactly did the e-mail come from?

[ihb9]

From UKPC:

From: Customer Services
Sent: 24 November 2023 16:09
To:  [the business we visited]
Subject: RE: Recent PCN cancel requests, Following tel conv Phil Hamilton.

Good Afternoon,

Thank you for your email.

The two PCNs have been cancelled, no further action will be taken.

Kind Regards

Dean – On behalf of Customer Services

Voyager House, Mercury Park,
Wycombe Lane,
Wycombe Green,
High Wycombe,
HP10 0HH

 Web: ukparkingcontrol.com

[Nicky Boy]

Brilliant result!

If you think we've helped, please pass the word on to friends...

Oh, and there's a donation button further down the page.

We're all volunteers here, but there are overheads for hosting and administering the website.

All the best, 

Nicky Boy.

[FTMDave]

Brilliant!

Well done on your victory! 

Thread title updated.

[ihb9]

Apparently the owner...

Contacted 4 people, 3 emails and a phone call. So far 100% success rate.