Ingeus

[osdset]

Your signing on comes first - don't miss it!! Here is an extract from the DWP Work Provider Guidance Chapter 1 - Introduction and Overview (all the documents are available to read on the dwp.gov website)

 

• Some participants may be required to attend mandatory interventions with Jobcentre Plus. For example JSA participants will be required to attend their Jobsearch Reviews and other mandatory interventions at Jobcentre Plus, you should ensure that nothing you require of participants prevents them from attending these appointments.

 

 

It's very clear and specific; any appointments with the Jobcentre or DWP come first; Ingeus have to work around them, not vice versa. Quote the section above if they argue and tell them you'll report them for not following the terms of their contract with the DWP.

 

It's disgraceful that these training providers don't know the rules they're supposed to be following.

 

At my one and only visit to Seetec on 01/03/13 the 'advisor' mentioned that sanctions for ESA claimants would be loss of the work related component, I piped up and told him that the rules had changed as from 03/12/12 claimants would lose the whole of the personal allowance but keep the work related component ie a £71 drop in income. This came as a total surprise to him, he stated categorically that Seetec had not been informed of any changes!

 

He obviously did not believe me until I showed him this

 

What is changing?

 

Under the new rules ESA claimants in the WRAG who fail to comply with the conditions for receiving benefit will receive an open ended sanction, followed by a fixed period sanction when they re-comply. The fixed period sanction will be one week for a first failure, two weeks for a second failure and four weeks for a third and subsequent failures in a 52 week period.

 

Claimants who are sanctioned will lose all of their personal allowance, but their work related activity component will not be affected.

 

Taken from the DWP's advisers and intermediaries/update/ Changes to sanctions for Employment and Support Allowance claimants from 3 December 2012 page.

 

The look on his face was stony to say the least.

[dyfed]

I think we might well see many, if not all the pimps shuffling off into obscurity when the two year figures are announced. The WP has been a colossal failure, most cannot get anywhere near the governments 5.5% back to work predictions, many haven't achieved half of that.

 

The government will find a way to manipulate the figures and hail it as a huge success. This would be a good outcome for us.

A bad out come would be for the governments WP to bee seen as a failure and the media ripping it apart because the Tory government will probbaly take some knee jerk reaction and limit JSA for two years. Or something simular.

[dyfed]

Hiya Ruby

 

"Low Life's"...lol .....funny,.... WP is low life central.

 

I used to work on the WP when it first began although it was not with Ingeus, and I can show you advisors with criminal records..lol ....One in particular was caught selling weed around the back of the building....lol another was prosecuted and jailed for fraud,

 

Nimitz

 

Great I am looking forward to the WP now, I might be able to score and sit in the class room stoned lol

[joeski]

if the WP fails then the blame lies at IDS's door, thats a good thing because we all know how IDS loves a good lie haha

[lilbiggeeman]

Your signing on comes first - don't miss it!! Here is an extract from the DWP Work Provider Guidance Chapter 1 - Introduction and Overview (all the documents are available to read on the dwp.gov website)

 

• Some participants may be required to attend mandatory interventions with Jobcentre Plus. For example JSA participants will be required to attend their Jobsearch Reviews and other mandatory interventions at Jobcentre Plus, you should ensure that nothing you require of participants prevents them from attending these appointments.

 

 

It's very clear and specific; any appointments with the Jobcentre or DWP come first; Ingeus have to work around them, not vice versa. Quote the section above if they argue and tell them you'll report them for not following the terms of their contract with the DWP.

 

It's disgraceful that these training providers don't know the rules they're supposed to be following.

 

Thank you for the info, I'm glad I found out, I was going to go to Ingeus in case I got sanctioned.

[flumps1976]

Lilbiggeeman, you need to advise the providers that the course clashes with your signing arrangements which unless they complete paperwork such as an ES88XJP to excuse you from signing the JCP will not excuse you from that requirment to attend.

On your Job Seekers Agreement do you have any restrictions regarding the times you are available to work?

If you do and it states you are only available to 14:00 due to caring responsibilities then they cannot expect you tro attend a course that runs any later than that, however if there are no restrictions then you will need to source childcare for your children to be able to attend the course or face a possible sanction referral for not participating fully with the course, of course you are able to rearrange the course and claim childcare expenses for registered childcare from the providers to cover that too, the likelihood is they will umm and ahh and find an alternative course for you to attend.

[Bakatcha]

oh i understand that it's just the system, i'm just worried , it's the unknown that scares me! I've decided that I will have to reschedule my appointment as I have to sign on in the morning and my sons finish school at 15:15pm, I can't afford to pay for a babysitter...

The pimps have to pay for childcare costs incurred as a direct result of attending any mandated appointment. Contact them asap. Don't take no for an answer. If they argue say that it is part of their contract with DWP (it is!). If they refuse to pay for childcare costs complain to the JCP.

[flumps1976]

Bakatcha, it is only registered childcare that they have to reimburse,

If they refuse then yes contact JCP to raise as an issue, I am always raising issues at work regarding these incidents, where they claim that they receive no funding for travel costs etc and it has been pointed out time and time again that they do indeed recieve payment once a customer is referred and this is exactly what the payment is intended to be used for.

If they do refuse then you are entitled to request that the course is rescheduled either for a time in advance to ensure plenty of time to arrange suitable registered childcare and for them to have sufficent time to pay the incurred costs or for them to refer to a more suitable course that doesn't clash, but once again they could argue that if the JSAg doesn't show any hour restrictions they are not obliged to re-schedule the course.

[joeski]

i think IDS's has been taking the lyrics to the song 'Little Lies' by Flletwood Mac abit to seriously..he hasn't told little lies at all, he's basically an automated lieing machine!

[Guest]

am surprised he hasn't had the front to go on comic relief with david cammoron

[lilbiggeeman]

my Job seekers agreement says I am only available to work from 10am til 2:30pm, so I'll ring them armed with all these details and advise them that they have to deal with it and sort something else out for me, I feel so much better about the situation, I was so worried but now I feel prepared, Thank you everyone for the help

[joeski]

am surprised he hasn't had the front to go on comic relief with david cammoron

 

 

if he did go on he'd probably be telling porky's again

[Bakatcha]

Bakatcha, it is only registered childcare that they have to reimburse,

If they refuse then yes contact JCP to raise as an issue, I am always raising issues at work regarding these incidents, where they claim that they receive no funding for travel costs etc and it has been pointed out time and time again that they do indeed recieve payment once a customer is referred and this is exactly what the payment is intended to be used for.

If they do refuse then you are entitled to request that the course is rescheduled either for a time in advance to ensure plenty of time to arrange suitable registered childcare and for them to have sufficent time to pay the incurred costs or for them to refer to a more suitable course that doesn't clash, but once again they could argue that if the JSAg doesn't show any hour restrictions they are not obliged to re-schedule the course.

Thanks for that Flumps. Too many people are unaware of their rights or too frightened to stand up for themselves.

As your reward you can watch this (though not whilst at work!)

[osdset]

The government will find a way to manipulate the figures and hail it as a huge success. This would be a good outcome for us.

A bad out come would be for the governments WP to bee seen as a failure and the media ripping it apart because the Tory government will probbaly take some knee jerk reaction and limit JSA for two years. Or something simular.

 

What's to stop the government from limiting JSA to two years regardless? Get rid of the pimps and it's one less thing to worry about, I cannot see how continuing the WP is a good thing for anyone who is claiming JSA.

 

The WP will be seen to be a failure, and the media will tear the government to shreds over it, that's inevitable. There is only so much gloss and spin the government can put on the figures. I think many of the pimps will pull out at the two year mark as they simply aren't generating enough cash out of the scheme, I reckon most claimants have gotten wise to withdrawing consent by now. So the pimps have painted themselves into a corner, there is no way out.

 

I don't rule out IDS coming up with yet another half baked scheme though.

[RebeccaPidgeon]

What's to stop the government from limiting JSA to two years regardless? Get rid of the pimps and it's one less thing to worry about, I cannot see how continuing the WP is a good thing for anyone who is claiming JSA.

 

The WP will be seen to be a failure, and the media will tear the government to shreds over it, that's inevitable. There is only so much gloss and spin the government can put on the figures. I think many of the pimps will pull out at the two year mark as they simply aren't generating enough cash out of the scheme, I reckon most claimants have gotten wise to withdrawing consent by now. So the pimps have painted themselves into a corner, there is no way out.

 

I don't rule out IDS coming up with yet another half baked scheme though.

Unfortunately, after 1997, and with the increasing privatisation of Public Services, the Welfare To Work Sector thrived.... including through the introduction of the New Deal and Flexible New Deal - which achieved nothing other than make plebby organisations (such as A4E and Working Links) extremely rich at the expense of the taxpayer. On the plus side, of course, Emma Harrison of A4E was on track to become a £1Billion Woman.

 

When Labour return to power, I am sure that they will terminate the Work Programme, and introduce some scheme which is just as bad as the FND.

[Chester6]

Unfortunately, after 1997, and with the increasing privatisation of Public Services, the Welfare To Work Sector thrived.... including through the introduction of the New Deal and Flexible New Deal - which achieved nothing other than make plebby organisations (such as A4E and Working Links) extremely rich at the expense of the taxpayer. On the plus side, of course, Emma Harrison of A4E was on track to become a £1Billion Woman.

 

When Labour return to power, I am sure that they will terminate the Work Programme, and introduce some scheme which is just as bad as the FND.

 

Habit seems to be to equal and to be worst as well each change of government

As if the idea is to punish and penalise the unemployed and anyone on benefits such as illness etc

[dyfed]

What's to stop the government from limiting JSA to two years regardless? Get rid of the pimps and it's one less thing to worry about, I cannot see how continuing the WP is a good thing for anyone who is claiming JSA.

 

The WP will be seen to be a failure, and the media will tear the government to shreds over it, that's inevitable. There is only so much gloss and spin the government can put on the figures. I think many of the pimps will pull out at the two year mark as they simply aren't generating enough cash out of the scheme, I reckon most claimants have gotten wise to withdrawing consent by now. So the pimps have painted themselves into a corner, there is no way out.

I

I don't rule out IDS coming up with yet another half baked scheme though.

 

Well if the media do tear the WP to shreds you can bank on our lives becoming even worse because by hook or by crook we the ill, disabled and unemployed are going to pay.

 

I hope to God I am wrong and the government just do the usual thing by bringing out stats from a right wing think tank or justifying the WP as a success because it gets us lazy skivers up before midday and working hard for £2 an hour.

[osdset]

Well if the media do tear the WP to shreds you can bank on our lives becoming even worse because by hook or by crook we the ill, disabled and unemployed are going to pay.

 

I hope to God I am wrong and the government just do the usual thing by bringing out stats from a right wing think tank or justifying the WP as a success because it gets us lazy skivers up before midday and working hard for £2 an hour.

 

 

The Public Accounts Committee (PAC) announced that in it's first 14 months (to July 2012) the WP had achieved a 3.6% success rate in getting claimants into sustainable employment, dire by any standard. Margaret Hodge who chairs the committee that is made up of cross-party MP's stated

 

the programme was particularly failing young people and the hardest to help.

 

and

 

It is shocking that of the 9,500 former incapacity benefit claimants referred to providers, only 20 people have been placed in a job that has lasted three months, while the poorest-performing provider did not manage to place a single person in the under-25 category into a job lasting six months

 

Personally I think it's shocking that former IB claimants were mandated to this programme in the first place! But I digress, the results of the two year 'trial' will be published I believe this month, unless there has been divine intervention in the last six months the figures will not have improved much, if at all.

 

If the governments own watchdog committee is condemning the WP as "worse than if nothing was in place" it surely must be a dead duck!

[john27]

A wonderful rant, Impecunious! I like to use 'overt' and covert' a lot in my talks with advisors. Also 'zenith' and it's opposite 'nadir'.

 

What happened to the good old days when you were employed in just ONE capacity, did the job to acceptable standards, within the stated hours and if you agreed to overtime, it was paid at time and a half on Saturdays and double time on Sundays. Happy days!

 

Now, in addition to doing work which would have been covered by ten different job titles at one time, you're expected to work any hours, think of ways to improve the company and generally live, breath, eat, sleep and dream 'the company'. Work to live, not live to work.

 

I had an interview once for a very basic admin job, nothing fancy. The interviewer saw my cv and remarked 'Oh, you've done credit control, we can have you doing some of that'...oh, you've done costing, we can have you doing some of that'. This went on until he came to my last job; graphic designer. He said 'Oh, you've done graphic design, we can have you doing our literature and catalogues too'.

 

At this point I reminded him that I was there for a basic admin job, which involved none of these skills and that if I AGREED to also do graphic design for them we'd naturally have to re-negotiate a suitable salary in keeping with this - (graphic design was paying about £25 per hour at the time).

 

'Oh, it'll all just be part of your basic admin duties' he said. I walked out.

 

good on you! i have noticed that since there are so few jobs these days that employers are starting to take the pee more and more, making potential employees jump through silly hoops, jerking them about and subjecting them to childish nonsense such as "what sort of animal would you be?" or as in your case expecting them to do more work than the job would normally entail just so they can be employed - i heard from one lad that Asda are terrible for getting people to do "work experience" positions there and telling them if they work extra hard they'll give them a job at the end of it, but they never do - they just take on the next person so they can have an endless stream of free labour

 

hopefully we'll drag ourselves out of this recession and the cogs of the British economy will resume turning at their former pace - being on the dole sucks because sooner or later you'll run out of things to do

[Bakatcha]

The Public Accounts Committee (PAC) announced that in it's first 14 months (to July 2012) the WP had achieved a 3.6% success rate in getting claimants into sustainable employment, dire by any standard. Margaret Hodge who chairs the committee that is made up of cross-party MP's stated

 

 

 

and

 

 

 

Personally I think it's shocking that former IB claimants were mandated to this programme in the first place! But I digress, the results of the two year 'trial' will be published I believe this month, unless there has been divine intervention in the last six months the figures will not have improved much, if at all.

 

If the governments own watchdog committee is condemning the WP as "worse than if nothing was in place" it surely must be a dead duck!

Wishful thinking I fear! The contracts given out to the pimps relate to a 5 year period (with an additional 2 years to supervise those placed into employment (HA HA) in the final few months. Premature cancellation is likely to lead to enormous breach of contract pay outs.

Of course the outcome percentages will have improved and doubtless this will be spun as the WP improving. In reality this is a statistical quirk and the real point of comparison should be with the non intervention figures set out in the DWP's original Invitation to tender document. This will show an abysmal performance.

[joeski]

What's to stop the government from limiting JSA to two years regardless? Get rid of the pimps and it's one less thing to worry about, I cannot see how continuing the WP is a good thing for anyone who is claiming JSA.

 

The WP will be seen to be a failure, and the media will tear the government to shreds over it, that's inevitable. There is only so much gloss and spin the government can put on the figures. I think many of the pimps will pull out at the two year mark as they simply aren't generating enough cash out of the scheme, I reckon most claimants have gotten wise to withdrawing consent by now. So the pimps have painted themselves into a corner, there is no way out.

 

I don't rule out IDS coming up with yet another half baked scheme though.

 

 

hopefully he won't be around long enough to do any more damage.

[flumps1976]

Oh Bakatcha, I enjoyed that although had to suddenly stop the video when my child walked into the room :o

If only I could post that on my fb account but the good old electronic media policy prohibits watching the video during work hours (am I agree with that tbh) but also not allowed to have anything policitcal at all on our fb accounts.

 

Lillbigeeman I'm glad you checked out your JSAg it means you can insist that the course eith accommodates your hours or that it is rescheduled with a more suitable course that you can attend

[dyfed]

The Public Accounts Committee (PAC) announced that in it's first 14 months (to July 2012) the WP had achieved a 3.6% success rate in getting claimants into sustainable employment, dire by any standard. Margaret Hodge who chairs the committee that is made up of cross-party MP's stated

 

 

 

and

 

 

 

Personally I think it's shocking that former IB claimants were mandated to this programme in the first place! But I digress, the results of the two year 'trial' will be published I believe this month, unless there has been divine intervention in the last six months the figures will not have improved much, if at all.

 

If the governments own watchdog committee is condemning the WP as "worse than if nothing was in place" it surely must be a dead duck!

 

 

Yes I agree the WP is not working and I watched the select commitee and read the report. The governments defense was its still too early and thousands have found work.

My worry is if their is widespread condemnation and shouts of we want blood from right wing lobbyists, media and the tory voters then what will happen. Tougher cuts, more slavery or even a time limit jsa benefit.

 

Its not looking good for us.

[dyfed]

I wonder if the torys are, in part, trying to scrap eu human rights laws so they can abuse us some more? A lot of IDS plans are being scuppered because of them pesky eu human rights law.

Its not all about deportation. The government could, if it wanted, deport anyone, anywhere at anytime. This deportation commution is nothing but a ruse.

[jimduf22]

Finally got my SAR request back today. In Ingeus own words "he has to be one of the hardest clients to deal with". Job done