Ingeus

[osdset]

What sort of animal would I be?

Let them work it out! Refer to the animal by its binomial nomenclature in Latin - without subtitles - or by its classification and taxonomy

Don't whatever you do, smile or provide an explanation!

 

Impecunious!

 

Ho hum! All this jolly banter is huge fun no doubt, and fiddling with the minds of the pimps is a justifiable pursuit, however most pimps have been educated at neanderthal level, and by virtue of that react with a blunt instrument, in the case of JSA claimants the blunt instrument is a sanction.

[jasta11]

'What sort of animal would I be?'

 

..I'd have replied politely 'A mouse; then I could spend my entire 2-year lifespan attending this work programme, die, and never know that life could have been so much better'.

 

Sarcasm may be the lowest form of wit..but it's bl**dy satisfying!

[dyfed]

What sort of animal would I be?

 

As sly as a fox, as wise as an owl and like a rabbit in the bedroom lol

[RebeccaPidgeon]

Ho hum! All this jolly banter is huge fun no doubt, and fiddling with the minds of the pimps is a justifiable pursuit, however most pimps have been educated at neanderthal level, and by virtue of that react with a blunt instrument, in the case of JSA claimants the blunt instrument is a sanction.

Of course, W2W Clerks appreciate that they cannot sanction a candidate .... simply raise a sanction, and if the candidate is simply mandated to attend a meeting (as advised within the letter), that is their only obligation within reason.

[jasta11]

Of course, W2W Clerks appreciate that they cannot sanction a candidate .... simply raise a sanction, and if the candidate is simply mandated to attend a meeting (as advised within the letter), that is their only obligation within reason.

 

The odd advisor does realise this and treads carefully but I find that the majority of them assume that, because they're working under contract to the DWP, it automatically gives them the same full powers. I've lost count of the times I've had to remind them that they only have a certain amount of autonomy; for the rest of it they're under DWP rules just as much as I am.

 

It all comes down to staff training (the total lack of it, apparently)...and what they're told to do by their managers. We all need to keep abreast of the rules and keep one step ahead.

*cue Madness with 'One Step Beyond'

[Chester6]

Or just cue madness

Had an stupid "effective job seeking" group and was 10 minutes late so I wasn't allowed in and then lectured about how the group would be so good and she had tha uadacity ask how I would act if she had set up a job interview

Got the stupid thing again supposedly

Do other pimps not allow you in if you are late or later then 15 mins?

[Bakatcha]

My cup runneth over! Just returned from double jeopardy - a JCP signing on followed by a "review interview" with A4 greed. A new "adviser" at the JCP. I was expecting this as the previous one had told me that she'd found a new job. Now these things are a lottery and I could get the adviser from hell or strike lucky and get a decent human being. I was lucky - the new adviser seems like a reasonable human being. Not even a mention of UJM by the way.

And so on to Emma's pad:

Another new adviser (my 7th), this time not because of someone moving on but just an internal shuffling around.. I appear to have escaped pointless jobsearches and courses at least for the time being with my next appointment in a month. Adviser mentioned UJM and said that it was mandatory from 4th March. I corrected him by saying only mandatory if a JSD issued by a FLA at JCP, so I wouldn't be registering.

Apparently I am nearing the end of 80 weeks on the WP and I was warned that I would have to attend a training course before being passed back to the JCP. There were 2 possibilities - one an internal A4greed 2 day affair and one a 2 WEEK external course run by some cowboy outfit called Charnwood training. I expressed astonishment at a 2 week course and asked what they were supposed to be teaching for 2 weeks. The answer? " Soft skills and suchlike" (WTF for 2 'effin weeks?. - is this the famous Jonty Oliffe-Cooper "How to wipe your bottom" course???) . Anyway I am being recommended for the shorter version as I learnt how to wipe my bum over 50 years ago (and can still manage it). I did not have to demonstrate.

I have looked up Charnwood Training http://www.charnwood.co.uk/about-us/. Apologies if this is not the organisation concerned.

Looks like they specialise in hospitality, security and catering. None of which I have ever done or have the slightest inclination to do!

I was asked (again) for my phone number and declined to give it.

[dyfed]

Do you know something.

 

I aint going to do this jsa or WP. Once I am cured of a degenerative heart condition by atosh/dwp and taken off the support group thats it.

I cant go through all of this crud just for a few quid. I aint gonna do it. I just cant bring myself to be abused by these morons.

I would rather beg on the streets than beg in a so called job centre or WP regime.

[biggeorge]

Everyone at Ingeus or any other Work Programme Provider needs to download this:

http://consent.me.uk/workfareconsent/

Fill in the missing details with your providers name and send in recorded delivery, This makes you worth £0 to them and you will get parked

like me, My appointments are now 8 weeks apart and last the time it takes me to finish a coffee.

If every single person on the Work Programme at all providers did this, they would be bust with the month.

 

George

[jasta11]

I agree - it needs the majority of participants to do this to have any real effect. I handed mine in ages ago, using a modified Consent.me template (made mine sound even stronger with the use of 'heretofore' and other such lovely' legalese').

 

I did however tell them that, if they actually did find me a vacancy - which was the type I was looking for - and I got the job, I'd make sure they got the outcome payment...on condition they never bothered me again until hell freezes over. If they do decide to do their usual thing - ie nothing - then that's up to them.

[MacMcGann]

Hi, I'm hoping I can get some advice on what I should do.

I've had the pleasure of a meeting with intraining, the "induction" I had to attend with my child as it was in the half term holidays. I was told, at the end, that 'children aren't allowed due to the type of people we get in the premises'. My first advisor appointment was booked for the next school holiday so I went in a changed it - also explaining I need to leave town at 2pm for school pick-up. I attended the appointment today and arrived 10 mins early. Eventually the advisor came through 20 minutes late, no apologises for being tardy. I told her 3-4 times I needed to get to school - it closed even earlier than normal as it's last day of term, she ignored me, saying it was important I do a 'better calculation' and some questionnaire.

Anyway, the upshot was, I was 30 minutes late collecting my child from school. And both of us majorly upset about it? Lucky the school don't charge for the childcare.

Are they allowed to do this? I don't have family and friends I can rely on to collect - and certainly nothing at such short notice.

Who do I complain to - and are they likely to do anything?

[biggeorge]

MacMcGann, I would start with a formal complaint to the manager regarding this matter explaining what happened and how you were ignored

and made late picking up your child from school, This was unacceptable and someone should be answering for it.

 

If we are late we are Sanctioned, If they are late not even an apology so another complaint about there lateness without excuse or explanation.

As for picking up your child from school I would personally have left when I needed to, You explained you had a child in school

who needed picking up, that should have been enough for the pleb.

 

If you can find a registered child minder she if they are available at short notice, they have to pay for child care and child minding can be costly

so next time they make an appointment close to school time explain you will need refunding child care costs, Bet you anything they change appointment times.

 

George

[Bakatcha]

biggeorge is 100% correct.

[MacMcGann]

Thanks for your reply George,

Yes, I really wish I had left at 1.50, before the advisor had even seen me. Hindsight and all that. All they say is that if you don't do what they want the will 'raise a doubt' on your claim.

Have got some great advice from this site and intend to use it. Already got my eyes on a recording device

I'll get together some information about childcare and be 'armed' (with information) for my next meeting.... a 2 hour job search which sadly co-insides with the JCP appointment. Sounds wonderful!

 

Mac

[Bakatcha]

@MacMcGann

Find yourself a registered child minder. Get their hourly rate. Inform your pimp (in writing and keep a copy) that every time they make a mandatory appointment for you that involves you using the services of a child minder that you expect to be reimbursed at the stated rate, in cash, before leaving their premises. The refund to include time spent at their offices plus travel time (travel expenses in addition to child care costs). Thus if you have a one hour appointment but have to travel an hour each way you use 3 hours of child minder time and the reimbursement is for the full 3 hours. Remind them that their contract with the DWP states that no one should be out of pocket for attending the WP.

I bet you don't get quite so many mandatory appointments.

[biggeorge]

http://consent.me.uk/workfareconsent/

Is a great letter to withdraw consent from the plebs and makes you completely worthless to them.

 

My pleb was stuck for words last week when I asked her to take my phone number off there system, Explained I had now

given my sim card to my daughter so that number they keep texting me on is no longer mine and must be removed.

She wasn't happy when she asked me how can I contact you then and I said 1st class post is normally fine as my new phone number

is personal and private.

 

If you have a computer at home then a 2 hour job search is unreasonable and you can question it. Get the consent letter sent in and they must stop spamming your

details around to anyone, Can't add anything to the computer systems, You in effect tie their hands to what they can actually do.

 

If we can get 50%+ who withdraw consent from all WP providers they will all go bust, no other outcome payments for them at all, they will have to survive on the

initial payments they received when you were sold to them (£400-£600).

 

George

[jasta11]

Thanks for your reply George,

Yes, I really wish I had left at 1.50, before the advisor had even seen me. Hindsight and all that. All they say is that if you don't do what they want the will 'raise a doubt' on your claim.

Have got some great advice from this site and intend to use it. Already got my eyes on a recording device

I'll get together some information about childcare and be 'armed' (with information) for my next meeting.... a 2 hour job search which sadly co-insides with the JCP appointment. Sounds wonderful!

 

Mac

 

Make sure you go to your JCP appointment FIRST, Mac. They always come first - if it clashes with a WP appointment then it's the WP who has to get around it.

 

Here's an extract from the DWP guidelines to WP 'Chapter 1 - Introduction and Overview'. Show it to the WP if they get stroppy and threaten to report them to the DWP for non-compliance with their contract.

 

'...JSA participants will be required to attend their Jobsearch Reviews and other mandatory interventions at Jobcentre Plus, you should ensure that nothing you require of participants prevents them from attending these appointments.'

 

All the rules and guides the WP must follow are freely available from the DWP website here :

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/supplying-dwp/what-we-buy/welfare-to-work-services/provider-guidance/work-programme-provider.shtml

 

It's well worth reading them (yes, I know they can be a bit heavy going !) but you'll learn - as we did - that WP's are breaking rules left right and centre and it's up to us to know these rules so we don't suffer as a result.

 

The document on 'Mandation' is especially worth reading, as the WP tend to think they can just call you in anytime and by any means...read that one and you'll see they can't!

Edited March 24, 2013 by jasta11

[Bakatcha]

Make sure you go to your JCP appointment FIRST, Mac. They always come first - if it clashes with a WP appointment then it's the WP who has to get around it.

 

Here's an extract from the DWP guidelines to WP 'Chapter 1 - Introduction and Overview'. Show it to the WP if they get stroppy and threaten to report them to the DWP for non-compliance with their contract.

 

'...JSA participants will be required to attend their Jobsearch Reviews and other mandatory interventions at Jobcentre Plus, you should ensure that nothing you require of participants prevents them from attending these appointments.'

 

All the rules and guides the WP must follow are freely available from the DWP website here :

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/supplying-dwp/what-we-buy/welfare-to-work-services/provider-guidance/work-programme-provider.shtml

 

 

 

It's well worth reading them (yes, I know they can be a bit heavy going !) but you'll learn - as we did - that WP's are breaking rules left right and centre and it's up to us to know these rules so we don't suffer as a result.

 

The document on 'Mandation' is especially worth reading, as the WP tend to think they can just call you in anytime and by any means...read that one and you'll see they can't!

 

A similar thing happened to me when the pimp arranged my induction for a time that clashed with my normal signing on. Stupid as signing on details/cycle is one od the bits of info passed to the pips. I phoned them to point this out. I also wrote to them. Having done this I attended the JCP thinking that I had done sufficient to inform the pimp (A4E) and that the JCP as the principal, rather than the agent, should take precedence. Result - a nasty letter from A4e saying I Failed To Attend and a sanction doubt was being raised. I wrote another letter. I complained to the pimp and to the JCP. Result? No sanction. But I am still awaiting an apology 18 months later. "Sorry" does not appear to be a word they have in their vocabulary.

[Nystagmite]

Surprised you still have to go to the JC. I didn't. I just had to hand in a piece of paper every Thursday between 9 & 4pm to say I've done what I should be doing and nothing has changed.

[Charlotte_Henderson]

Signing on comes first, your pimp at ingeus will have to change your appointment

 

Hearing lots of bad things about ingeus over the last few weeks worst than before, cant something be done about them????

[Chester6]

Signing on comes first, your pimp at ingeus will have to change your appointment

 

Hearing lots of bad things about ingeus over the last few weeks worst than before, cant something be done about them????

 

Even in the highly extremely unlikely chance that something is done then the next pimp will be worse

They seem to choose pimps on the basis of who can find new ways to scrape the barrel of useless and unprofessional pimping

[jasta11]

I agree with Chester; the next lot will be equally as dismal. I've also been to A4e and when I was put with Ingeus I was assured by the JC that they were 'nothing like A4e and were much better'...being the hardened cynic I am, I didn't believe this..and I was right not to. The business of making profit from the unemployed is still the same, no matter who the company is.

 

As the saying goes 'The more things change, the more they stay the same' or to quote a line from 'Won't Get Fooled Again' by The Who...'Meet the new boss..same as the old boss'

[Chester6]

I agree with Chester; the next lot will be equally as dismal. I've also been to A4e and when I was put with Ingeus I was assured by the JC that they were 'nothing like A4e and were much better'...being the hardened cynic I am, I didn't believe this..and I was right not to. The business of making profit from the unemployed is still the same, no matter who the company is.

 

As the saying goes 'The more things change, the more they stay the same' or to quote a line from 'Won't Get Fooled Again' by The Who...'Meet the new boss..same as the old boss'

 

or just as accurate " meet the new staff ...same as the old staff" as many just transfer from one pimp to another to another

The jobcentre tends to wash their hands of you when on the pimp's hands and the pimps are just about the profits and short-term nonsense

I have met many people who say these schemes are just to stress and anger the jobseeker into taking any old crappy job

[NikkiJayne]

The Jobcentre are sending me on a day and a half course with Ingeus tomorrow and Wednesday. It is called 'Finding and getting a job'. I shall take great pleasure in informing them that I already work part time, so I think I have the basics of 'finding and getting a job' down.

 

Has anyone here been on this course? Is it as very useless as the letter sent out to me makes out?

[Chester6]

Has anyone been on the "effective job seeking" course? is it as useless as it sounds?