Ingeus

[jasta11]

- When reading a job advertisement, it's important to make sure you're in a calm and quiet environment to properly read it and take it all in without interupptions or background noise.

- It's important to always print out any job advertisement you see and want to apply for, so that you can highlight important key words.

- Use one highlighter for key words and another coloured highlighter for "words you don't understand"

- Google the words you don't understand

- 'Challenge' is a skill you have. (WTF)

- Always make sure you can get transport to the job. If in doubt, go to Google Maps and type in the name of the place you live and the place you will be working for. Make sure to put in the correct times and try not to spell anything incorrectly. Click the button "next" and print out your route so you don't forget it.

- Always save the job advertisement by clicking "save" so you can go back to it at any time.

 

Straight off a script, isn't it? Not even the pretense of trying to help customers. I must remember to get a new pack of highlighters so that I can go through my vacancies diligently Had the exact same speil at A4e - and they even had a nice big box of highlighters too (usually used for colouring in or 'team work exercises' as they called it).

 

One positive point though - if we're ever queried on our '35 hour jobsearch' evidence, this could be used to fill in quite a large chunk of time. Even 'printing out the advert' might require a couple of hours to visit nearest library and use their facilities; another hour on Google to check unknown words; 30 mins more on Google Maps to check the location of the company and plan various routes; another 30 mins on internet to check bus timetables, etc. There's 4hrs gone just for one vacancy and we haven't even started personalising our cover letter yet..

[RebeccaPidgeon]

Just another update from my adventures with "LearnDirect" (an extension of Ingeus).

 

Today 7 young people including myself arrived at 9am (our appointment time). We were told to go on the computers and job search for an hour. Someone immediately kicked up a fuss saying they could have done a job search at home to which the advisor told her that we all need supervised to make sure we're *actually* looking for work and not just pretending. Hmm. After the job search (which, as always, was finished in about 10 minutes because how are we supposed to apply for jobs without our CV's on the computers to upload?) we were told to gather round a table and told that today's discussion was going to be on Job Advertisements. Try not to laugh but here is the gist of what we were taught today -

 

- When reading a job advertisement, it's important to make sure you're in a calm and quiet environment to properly read it and take it all in without interupptions or background noise.

- It's important to always print out any job advertisement you see and want to apply for, so that you can highlight important key words.

- Use one highlighter for key words and another coloured highlighter for "words you don't understand"

- Google the words you don't understand

- 'Challenge' is a skill you have. (WTF)

- Always make sure you can get transport to the job. If in doubt, go to Google Maps and type in the name of the place you live and the place you will be working for. Make sure to put in the correct times and try not to spell anything incorrectly. Click the button "next" and print out your route so you don't forget it.

- Always save the job advertisement by clicking "save" so you can go back to it at any time.

 

Throw in the advisor asking "Ahhh, has anyone ever told you how to do that before? No? See, that's why I'm here." about 10 times and general gloating about how she has a job and we don't ("Not trying to brag, i've been there and done it but I worked my arse off to get here and I done it by following these steps. You want a job that badly? Well listen to me. I've had 12 clients go into work in the past week. I'm telling you. What? You think i'm lying? She's laughing. Do you think I'm laughing, doll? I'm deadly serious."

 

I just dont know how she could possibly have got 12 clients into work with such generic and awful advice?

Perhaps the Welfare To Work Clerk coordinating the session was on Mandatory Work Activity, directed to report at the volition of Job Centre Plus, preparing him/her to become a student in a kindergarten class.

[essexmat]

Well I am vack from another mindane pointless INGEUS appointment - that is that for another 2 weeks - what an utter waste of time.

 

Got in and a letter was on the doormat from INGEUS about a rearranged workshop that was cancelled on 7th July - new date is 31st July - all OK with me, however silly INGEUS letter writer has made a boo-boo. On all letters I have received in the past the paragrpah at the end says "This is a mandatory appointment failure to attend etc ..." On this letter it is just the date and time and the whole mandatory paragraph has been left out - so if I was feeling naught I guess I could not bother turning up and if they tried to raise a doubt I could show the letter which DOES NOT say this is mandatory - it is also signed not with a photocopy signature but an actual original one - shall I have some fun or not?

[Lapsed Workaholic]

The letter informing you of the 7th July workshop, did it have all the mandating stuff?

 

What date was the letter you got today written and posted?

 

You will have heard of the Ruling by the High Court on Friday 4th July where a judge ruled that Government rules designed to force benefits claimants into work placements breached European Human Rights laws.

 

Here is what the Court concluded:

 

Conclusions

 

I grant permission to apply for judicial review on all grounds.

 

I conclude that:

 

a) the Jobseekers (Back to Work Schemes) Act 2013 was incompatible with the Claimants’ rights under Art. 6(1) ECHR;

 

b) Article 1 of the First Protocol to the ECHR was not engaged.

 

151. I grant a declaration in the following terms: “It is declared that the Jobseekers (Back to Work) Schemes Act 2013 is incompatible with the Claimants’ rights under Article 6(1) of the European Convention on Human Rights, as given effect by section 1 of the Human Rights Act 1998”.

 

As I read it, what it is saying is that The Jobseekers (Back to Work Schemes) Act 2013 was incompatible with the rights that Claimants have under Article 6(1) of the European Convention on Human Rights.

All schemes validated and introduced under the authority granted by this Act, and this includes the Work Programme, would appear to have been ruled illegal unless this ruling is overturned on judicial review or appeal.

 

Could this explain why any paragraph suggesting mandation or coercion is being dropped from notification letters as of last Friday? Including such paragraphs may be construed as contempt.

 

IDS and the DWP may try to keep it going and lodge an appeal against the ruling, or change the law again, but it is unlikely that the EU, who provide 50% of its costs, which was 2.5 billion in 2011, and will probably be nearer 5 billion now, will continue to support it and help to pay for it.

 

Could we really be witnessing the beginning of the end of WP as we have come to know and love it?

 

[Lapsed Workaholic]

Essexmat;

If you have one more appointment at Ingeus before the commencement date of the ‘workshop’ you could let them know that you have to be informed in writing if an activity undertaken under the Work Programme is mandatory.

 

Since you haven’t been told in writing that the one you have been invited to attend is mandatory you could not but assume that it was not mandatory and therefore you choose not to attend since you believe it would not be of any benefit to you.

 

It could be the first move in bringing the system to its knees. You could be the one to do it.

 

If my understanding of the High Court Judge’s conclusion as it stands is right they would be acting illegally by mandating you.

 

IDS, with bluff and bluster may try to keep it going until he figures out his next move but it looks like the Work Programme Providers could be deep in the do-do if they continue with it as it is. They could find themselves in breach of contractual terms and conditions made with EFS, an EU body. That EU body, you can bet your boots, will have contractual terms and conditions that comply with EU and ECHR laws and is more likely to seek redress for such a breach through the EU Courts than an English Court.

 

The Work Programme Provider Guidance says:

 

“in addition to this programme-specific guidance it is important that you follow the revised Generic DWP Provider Guidance which applies to all of our provision and ensure that European Social Fund (ESF) requirements are adhered to”.

 

Further information regarding ESF requirements can be found at:

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/266522/pg-chapter-11.pdf

 

 

I would love to see the reaction of those 'coaches' if you could convince them of how close they may be to being an extinct species and that their own future employment could be doubtful if it became known that they actively participated in what the High Court seems to have concluded as being illegal schemes. I suppose they could try that well worn defence; "We were only following orders".

[jasta11]

Being part of the European community is a double-edged sword, as our beloved government are now finding out; we can use their rules just as well as the government can. No wonder they now want us out of the EU.

 

I hope this really is the snowball sliding down the mountainside and growing, they've gotten away with far too much as it is... and when they are extinct, I hope nobody tries to play at Jurassic Park I'm waiting to see what new schemes they come up with before the next election to try and save themselves - should be very interesting.

[dyfed]

Well I am vack from another mindane pointless INGEUS appointment - that is that for another 2 weeks - what an utter waste of time.

 

Got in and a letter was on the doormat from INGEUS about a rearranged workshop that was cancelled on 7th July - new date is 31st July - all OK with me, however silly INGEUS letter writer has made a boo-boo. On all letters I have received in the past the paragrpah at the end says "This is a mandatory appointment failure to attend etc ..." On this letter it is just the date and time and the whole mandatory paragraph has been left out - so if I was feeling naught I guess I could not bother turning up and if they tried to raise a doubt I could show the letter which DOES NOT say this is mandatory - it is also signed not with a photocopy signature but an actual original one - shall I have some fun or not?

 

Careful mate! They might say that the mandatory babble was on the original letter that instructs you to attend and your newest letter is just to inform you of a change of date and the original mandation applies.

 

As we know, the sanction army will find any which way they can to to sanction you.

[newdecember]

hey guys, newbie on the forums but wanted to add my 2 cents and get some advice on this.

 

was referred to ingeus back in may as had been on jobseekers for nearly a year.

(28 and worked every day since i turned 18 except for 2 blips and was signed off work for 6 months due to me having a mental breakdown caused by severe work and stress related depression) (moral of the story, be nice to people who work in customer service call centres... "some" of them have feelings too and are majorly overworked to breaking point )

 

i tried to fight being referred to the work programme as i had gained a place on a college course starting in september, (which i am very happy about as it is helping me get back to some semblance of mental normality) and made sure that this was known to both JCP and ingeus.

 

first few appointments everything was fine and all that until she mentioned about doing call centre work, and told her that i worked in one for years and that i would rather not go back there due to call centre work being the cause of my breakdown. so it was dropped at the first interview.

 

a few weeks late she brought it up again and pushed me to apply for call centre work until i finally caved.

 

my advisor got me to apply the for jobs online and to then pass on the details so they could check the applications and correct any errors, naively i gave them the details and then they submitted the applications for me.

 

I originally marked down in the form that i am looking for between 16-30 hours as i feel I'd struggle to work any more than that at the moment with my mental state and due to going to college.

 

i managed to get an interview for one of the jobs only to find that my advisor has changed it to read that i want to do full time and 40 hours, which i advised her if i am at college i would only be looking for part time.

 

she has now put me in a predicament where at the interview i am going to look like an idiot because its marked as 40 plus hours and I know for a fact that unless i specifically apply for a part time job at this company then they are pretty much inflexible and will get someone who can work those hours. there are literally hundreds of applicants for one position at this place.

 

so I'm left with a choice of either tell the company that i am going to college in sept and probably be shown the door, drop out of college, or reject the job and get sanctioned.

 

 

i spoke to my advisor about this and her answer was to not tell them about college and just leave the job when you start college, one thing i'm not is a liar.

 

i'm in the process of getting tested by psychologists for possible bipolar disorder and right now i really don't need this added pressure, any ideas on what I could do in this case?

[ismael urzaiz]

just fail at the interview, dress a bit scruffy and fluff your answers.it's not a crime to be hopeless at an interview

[Lapsed Workaholic]

Hello Newdecember and welcome. Sorry to learn of your predicament and that those who are supposed to be there to help you seem to be worsening your condition. Your 2 penneth are always welcome, 2 cent might be Euros or dollars, not sure about the exchange rate.

 

My own first priority would be to prepare for the interview.

 

Prospective employers or interviewers usually ask questions about previous employment history. They will know about your previous work experience from details submitted with your application and they will doubtless ask you about that.

 

From the details that you have shared here it would appear that you were happy in your work and felt that you were good at your job. But then the long hours and the stress of the job began to affect your health to the point where you were mentally unable to cope. This resulted in breakdowns and long periods of absence and finally having to give up the job altogether.

 

At this stage the interviewer will be seriously considering the wisdom of offering you the job, especially if he/she knows that there are other candidates who would pose less of a risk.

 

The interviewer may then ask why you applied for the job knowing that it may cause a relapse of your recovery. You could answer by saying that you felt sufficiently confident that a return to this sort of work on a part-time basis to begin with would be well within your capacity to cope with and that as your confidence grew you would be able to consider extending your hours of work. You might add at this point that your adviser at the Work Programme, who forwarded your application form after taking it from you on the pretence that she wanted to check it, altered it to read 40hrs full-time instead of the part-time hours that you initially stipulated.

 

There is nothing idiotic about being forthright and explaining your situation, or a situation you have been forced into, at an interview. Of itself, it can only be an advantage.

 

Here the interviewer may be suitably impressed and consider the risk of employing you on a part-time basis as a risk worth taking.

 

Either way the decision would be the interviewer’s and nobody could doubt that you gave it your best shot or claim that you set out to deliberately scupper the interview.

 

My second priority would be to address the problem of what appears from your description to be a thoroughly obnoxious Work Programme adviser.

 

I would write a formal letter of complaint to the manager of the Ingeus establishment that you attend setting out your grievances and the shameful treatment that you are being exposed to and receiving at the hands of that adviser, as you have done to good effect here..

 

Not only does she not help you to find suitable work that takes account of your condition but her inconsiderate, pressurising approach may be detrimental to your health and puts you at risk of a mental relapse or even breakdown.

 

She is well out of order taking any documents that you prepare on the pretence of checking them for mistakes. Altering them without your consent or knowledge could be construed as criminal.

 

Wish you the best of luck, hope you find this helpful. Obviously I have outlined how I would handle the situation if I were in it. Not everyone handles things the same way though and you are the ultimate arbiter of how you wish to proceed in a way that feels comfortable to you.

 

You have not mentioned any issues that you may be aware of that might affect you continued receipt of Jobseekers’ Allowance and you college attendance; you will doubtless have looked into that aspect yourself.

[essexmat]

Post has arrived, usual INGEUS letter about my fortnightly appointment. Letter usually reads: "activities for next appointment are to job search and apply for relevant vacancies" This one says that but also says "expand your searches in to other sectors and vacancies" So, I am going to apply for roles as a labourer, fork lift driver and gardener. I cannot do labouring as I have no skills and a bad back, I do not hold a fork lift license and have no skills and I cannot do gardening as I have no skills in this area plus a bad back but hey, at least I am broadening my searches and applications, right? My local docs surgery is also short of doctors so may also apply for the vacant GP post, I do not hold a medical qualification, have never studied medicine and have never worked for the NHS - but at least Iam trying, right?

[Mr.P]

a few weeks late she brought it up again and pushed me to apply for call centre work until i finally caved.

 

my advisor got me to apply the for jobs online and to then pass on the details so they could check the applications and correct any errors, naively i gave them the details and then they submitted the applications for me.

 

You need to take back control of your job search activities and make it quite clear to this "adviser" that it is your responsibility to submit applications - If she has been creative with your CV, it is you that could suffer the consequences. Now that she has submitted an application on your behalf that could compromise your mental health at a later stage and falsified information (i.e. wrong hours), you have grounds to instruct her to desist. I'd suggest putting it in writing so that they have a copy on file, and if it happens again, lodge a formal complaint.

[Mr.P]

This one says that but also says "expand your searches in to other sectors and vacancies"

 

Look on the Ingeus web site and see if they have any vacancies. At the next meeting, hint that you are gunning for the manager's job as you could probably make a better go of it than the current individual.

[essexmat]

There was a job advertised at my local SEETEC ironically enough. I did consider going for it but then realised I have respect for people, am not a liar, am not a DWP messenger, courteous (most of the time), intelligent and have my own mind to make decisions so that is out! Thing is, on a serious note, if I went for something like this and managed to bag an interview and get the job I actually do not think I could go through with taking it

[jasta11]

my advisor got me to apply the for jobs online and to then pass on the details so they could check the applications and correct any errors, naively i gave them the details and then they submitted the applications for me...

 

...i managed to get an interview for one of the jobs only to find that my advisor has changed it to read that i want to do full time and 40 hours, which i advised her if i am at college i would only be looking for part time.?

 

They weren't 'checking' your applications; they were simply making sure they had all the details because if you end up getting the job they can't get paid without them. They're looking after their own interests first, not yours. It's what they do so always be aware of this.

 

Whatever else happens you definitely need rid of your current adviser. It's your right to ask for a different one and if anyone asks why, the reply 'because she's fraudulently altered a customers paperwork and I'll have to report this very serious breach to DWP investigators' should be enough to make them play ball.

 

They definitely do treat you a lot better if you show you won't be messed about and are prepared to report them. They'll certainly tread more warily around you.

[Mr Happy77]

Hello again, just after a little advice.

 

I've been in P/T work since January, not claiming JSA but Ingeus continue to send appt letters. They're not mandatory appointments so I don't bother turning up. They do keep phoning me however. On one occasion they've asked if I would confirm my current employers, which I politely declined, to which they responded they would phone them anyway.

 

My question is, iIm not bothered about the letters, they just go in the recycle bin, but is there anyway to stop the phonecalls short of changing my number.

 

Thanks in advance

[sillygirl1]

Formally complain to the manager of your work provider that calls to your employer could mean you loose your employment - and that you deem it extreme harrassment. Copy in your local MP for good measure - that usually gets results. I d

[newdecember]

Hey guys thanks for the replies. I'll certainly be taking all this on board and getting it sorted out.

 

 

 

Interview is in a couple of days so I'm just gonna go in. Do my best and let em know about the situation.

 

That way the ball is in their court. Doubt I'll get the job anyway as its for banking and I have a CCJ against my name from a few years ago which my advisor also knew about... Which if I remember correctly stopped me being employed when I applied previously as they were told when I was asked about applying the first time. Lol

 

 

 

Also they really need to brush up on their cv skills... They "updated" my cv as well and to be honest it Is horrible! I had my cv professionally done 3 years ago and the person who did it took one glance at the Ingeus one and threw it in the bin... Saying that its an example of how NOT to write a CV. Structured completely wrong,and full of grammatical errors.

 

 

 

I'll be glad once September comes and I'm at college doing something I love.

 

 

 

Oh and with regards to the letters. I received one dated 3rd of July for an appointment and the paragraph had been replaced to say "it is very important that you attend all appointments" to coincide with the ruling I'm guessing

[newdecember]

Oh, lapsed workaholic, already looked into the whole jsa thing. I'd be signing off in September anyway. By then I'll have a bursary. And would be a chunk better off than on jsa. As my partner is on jsa at the moment too we would still be eligible for housing benefit even if she gets peanuts from dwp

[Tj rodgers]

Dont the new look of this page

[Tj rodgers]

*dont like ^

[BomBomBom]

Just got my next batch of appointments in through the post. One appointment at 9am every six days for the next four weeks basically.

 

"Summary of next appointment - jobsearch". Yep. Get a 60 minute bus journey, another 15 minute bus journey and 10 minute walk just to sit at a computer and look at job sites for two hours before going home.

[Tj rodgers]

Ive noticed a different approach frm jobcentre staff when i sign on the last few times they havnt checked my jobsearch an instead kind of sit back and ask me what ive been doing each week an how exactly did i do it an kind of tryin to prompt me into saying more as if fishing for info at first i thought it was just the one advisor but last 3 times ive seen 3 different advisors when signin on an all did the same so im guessing itr somthin management hav asked of them

[jasta11]

Ive noticed a different approach frm jobcentre staff when i sign on the last few times they havnt checked my jobsearch an instead kind of sit back and ask me what ive been doing each week an how exactly did i do it an kind of tryin to prompt me into saying more as if fishing for info at first i thought it was just the one advisor but last 3 times ive seen 3 different advisors when signin on an all did the same so im guessing itr somthin management hav asked of them

 

Yes, be careful what you say - or don't say! Probably trying to catch out people who've just wrote stuff down without actually doing it - and I'm sure we've all done that I'm surprised they're doing this as usually they haven't much time to spend with people and are often running late.

[Tj rodgers]

I live in a quiet little town near the beach called Hoylake its actually where the British Open Golf is being held so with it being a quiet more well to do area theres more staff in the jobcentre than people signin on