Ingeus

[Dark 1]

If you can get to and from this office in Wythenshawe within 90 minutes each way and you have been mandated to attend, I don't there is any real way out of it. Keep your bus tickets and demand a refund, in full, and without any strings attached when you get there - Look upon it as a day out at their expense.

 

You don't have to be sanctioned in order to make a nil income declaration. But if you close your claim for JSA and then make a declaration to the council to get HB/CTR, they may wonder how you intend to survive. You'd still need to pay for food, energy, and water - Savings won't last long, so be ready for some awkward questions about personal finances.

 

hey guys so I didn't full read my letter, the appointment in wythenshaw is my work placement

there is a time table included for 4 weeks with start times ranging from 8am - 9am finishing at 6 pm

so you don't think there is a way out of this?

what about if I get a sicknote ?

I have been on esa 2 times in the last 2 years due to a broken leg but Im feeling rather stressed and depressed now so I think I will be going doctors asap

[Tj rodgers]

hey guys so I didn't full read my letter, the appointment in wythenshaw is my work placement

there is a time table included for 4 weeks with start times ranging from 8am - 9am finishing at 6 pm

so you don't think there is a way out of this?

what about if I get a sicknote ?

I have been on esa 2 times in the last 2 years due to a broken leg but Im feeling rather stressed and depressed now so I think I will be going doctors asap

If your starting at 9am and finish at 6pm you must only have to do 4 days a week as the most hours they can give you is 30 per week

[Mr.P]

[...] the appointment in wythenshaw is my work placement

there is a time table included for 4 weeks with start times ranging from 8am - 9am finishing at 6 pm

so you don't think there is a way out of this?

 

Check the bus timetables and see if you can get there in good time and home again - Round here, the bus service doesn't really get going until around 07:30 which is pretty useless if one has to travel for more than an hour to make an 08:00 start.

[think about it]

Check the bus timetables and see if you can get there in good time and home again - Round here, the bus service doesn't really get going until around 07:30 which is pretty useless if one has to travel for more than an hour to make an 08:00 start.

 

This might help, pop your postcode in, then the postcode of the placement and it'll work it out for you. http://www.traveline-northwest.co.uk/journeyplanner/enterJourneyPlan.do?hss=r4Zbp280510022

 

As has been said earlier, if it's less than 90 mins then that's pretty much it.

[Dark 1]

Check the bus timetables and see if you can get there in good time and home again - Round here, the bus service doesn't really get going until around 07:30 which is pretty useless if one has to travel for more than an hour to make an 08:00 start.

 

after checking my local bus timetable there is only one bus that will take me directly there the bus starts running at 07.37 and have me there at around 08.51 also this bus does not run on sundays

on the timetable is says hours to be confirmed by the manager of the placement provider so there is probably some room for negotiation on the times

after researching the venue seems there is a furniture rework shop there thats probably what they will have me doing

well anyway I will be ending my jsa claim today so its unlikely I will be attending this community service

thinking back though now the whole scenario is a bit strange, when I went for my advisor interview I didn't see my regular advisor, during my interview there was another man there who looked at my details on the computer and was the guy talking about the workplacement.

I didn't question who this man was which I now regret but I was feeling unwell on the day and just wanted out..

now since the company that is handling my mwp is learn direct I now believe this man was working for lean direct..

reason being is I went to learn direct off my own back to try and get my English and maths

after doing the tests they said I didnt need to do the a levels and recommended doing an ecdl course..

catch was to do this course I must first attend one of there 5 day courses doing my cv and learning job skill etc

in the end it turned out there were more strings attached such as them calling my mobile every 2 weeks which I refused for them to do sparking a disagreement with the careers advisor I had to see there .

after this i didn't even go on to do the ecdl and just washed my hands of the company but i do think they have something to do with me landing this mwa probably pushed by that careers advisor who didn't like me

[Lapsed Workaholic]

Dark 1

 

Hope you read this before you go and sign-off, which seems to be a drastic move and unnecessary in your case solely for the purpose avoiding this MWA placement.

 

It has been stated repeatedly that if it takes longer than 90 mins to get to the placement you are not obliged to take the placement. Here is what the law says:

 

Time spent travelling to and from the placement does not form part of the hours of attendance on the placement. Where there are no agreed restrictions all MWA placements are for 30 hours per week activity and within 90 minutes travel by public transport of the client’s home address.

 

All you need to do is inform the flunky at the placement provider that they have placed you in a position that the law says is not within their remit and that you do not intend to take the placement.

 

You could do this immediately over the phone and follow it up with a formal letter. You can tell them too that you will be making a formal statement to your Jobcentre adviser to that effect.

 

Your issues with the training programmes you may or may not have thought you were applying for are different and do not have anything to do with MWA.

 

 

Once your Jobcentre adviser refers you to the placement provider then you have to deal in the first instance with that provider. Any arrangement they make on your behalf has to be within the stated regulation and if they are not it is up to them to rectify their error and up to you to ensure that they do.

[ismael urzaiz]

people who get forced onto these job placements need to remember they can't be sanctioned for being hopeless, a dropped china cabinet,a tap left on flooding the floor below are everyday mishaps in day to day life

[Dark 1]

hi

yes I did read the rules and checked the bus time tables

07.37 arrive at 08.51 so that like 1hr 14 min travel but that does not include the morning rush hour traffic

if I do a route planner it sys the journey will take 16 min and is 9 miles this is using motorways

I have another option that involves 2 busses and will take 1hr 2o min without hitting any traffic

so the times seem to just fall under the limit

I spoke to someone who has done the route and she said it could take up to 2 hours at some times of the day

mainly when I would be trying to get there and when trying to get back

my claim is closed now anyway its not even worth letting them build the inevitable sanctions against me

Edited July 8, 2014 by Dark 1

[Lapsed Workaholic]

Have you added the time it takes to get to where you catch the bus and the time it takes from getting off the bus to the placement site?

 

 

PS. Makes no difference now, in your case. However others may take note and learn from your experience and choose not to act as dramatically.

[Tj rodgers]

That was a bit drastic you wont be able to claim any benefits for some time now hope u find some work asap coz u goin to find it hard to even get the council to give u vouchers for the food banks now you have given up your benefits also do u live with parents? If so it dont matter but if you claim housing benefit they may not believe you have zero income and could also make it an issue of the fact that they would see you being able to afford to sign off Jsa yet why they still paying Housing benefit?

[Dark 1]

why would I not be able to claim benefits again for some time

being sanctioned would mean not getting any benefits for a while

no I don't live with my parents

lucky I went and got a 4 week sicknote from my doctor before I stopped my jsa claim then really

and Im pretty sure I could prove I have no income coming in by getting copys of my bank statement which they would ask to see anyway

fact is i don't feel well enough to do this and my doctor has given me a signed letter stating that i am not well enough to work

if that hold no water then so be it.

Edited July 9, 2014 by Dark 1

[whoflungpoo]

lucky I went and got a 4 week sicknote from my doctor before I stopped my jsa claim then really

 

you do Know that you can claim 2 weeks JSA while on sick?

[Dark 1]

already used my 2 sickness periods on my jsa claim and was told if i was ill again i would have to claim esa

[Dark 1]

All so there was a period of 3 months where i didn't claim any benefit inc hb and run up a debt with my landlord i went for an interview with the council shown them my bank statements and they paid the money to my landlord

i didn't claim at the time as i was refusing to have any contact with the work program provider i was with at the time

who basically harassed me as i recovered from a fractured tibial plateaux

when the called me weekly i told them to eff off weekly

i broke my leg at the start of the placement and was off for 2 years with the leg stepping foot in there office 3 times in total

i basically received nothing from the not even a cv

but when i claimed jsa again i was put straight onto post work program support

i went to learn direct off my own back non mandated then it turns out they are my provider for this work placement

[antone]

why would I not be able to claim benefits again for some time

being sanctioned would mean not getting any benefits for a while

no I don't live with my parents

lucky I went and got a 4 week sicknote from my doctor before I stopped my jsa claim then really

and Im pretty sure I could prove I have no income coming in by getting copys of my bank statement which they would ask to see anyway

fact is i don't feel well enough to do this and my doctor has given me a signed letter stating that i am not well enough to work

if that hold no water then so be it.

 

If you have a sick note you could make a claim for ESA. This would not be affected by JSA sanctions and you would not (for now at least) be required to attend the WP.

[BomBomBom]

Just another update from my adventures with "LearnDirect" (an extension of Ingeus).

 

Today 7 young people including myself arrived at 9am (our appointment time). We were told to go on the computers and job search for an hour. Someone immediately kicked up a fuss saying they could have done a job search at home to which the advisor told her that we all need supervised to make sure we're *actually* looking for work and not just pretending. Hmm. After the job search (which, as always, was finished in about 10 minutes because how are we supposed to apply for jobs without our CV's on the computers to upload?) we were told to gather round a table and told that today's discussion was going to be on Job Advertisements. Try not to laugh but here is the gist of what we were taught today -

 

- When reading a job advertisement, it's important to make sure you're in a calm and quiet environment to properly read it and take it all in without interupptions or background noise.

- It's important to always print out any job advertisement you see and want to apply for, so that you can highlight important key words.

- Use one highlighter for key words and another coloured highlighter for "words you don't understand"

- Google the words you don't understand

- 'Challenge' is a skill you have. (WTF)

- Always make sure you can get transport to the job. If in doubt, go to Google Maps and type in the name of the place you live and the place you will be working for. Make sure to put in the correct times and try not to spell anything incorrectly. Click the button "next" and print out your route so you don't forget it.

- Always save the job advertisement by clicking "save" so you can go back to it at any time.

 

Throw in the advisor asking "Ahhh, has anyone ever told you how to do that before? No? See, that's why I'm here." about 10 times and general gloating about how she has a job and we don't ("Not trying to brag, i've been there and done it but I worked my arse off to get here and I done it by following these steps. You want a job that badly? Well listen to me. I've had 12 clients go into work in the past week. I'm telling you. What? You think i'm lying? She's laughing. Do you think I'm laughing, doll? I'm deadly serious."

 

I just dont know how she could possibly have got 12 clients into work with such generic and awful advice?

[essexmat]

She hasn't got 12 clients in to jobs, the clients found them themselves and even if she did help they are seasonal or part time cr*p jobs that pay no more than benefits so nothing to be smug about luvvie.

[CarolNG]

With the best will in the world - EssexMatt and Lapsed Workoholic sound like such articulate and intelligent people it's a real shame they spend so much of their energy looking for ways to undermine and play the benefits system rather than just getting stuck in and working. Benefits are for people who are disabled and uneducated and can't help themselves, OR for those of us who are temporarily on hard times and need a safety net (IE you wouldn't even be put on WP if you'd been unemployed for less than 6 months).

 

You will both probably take this the wrong way of course, but I mean it in respect - you seem to intelligent too be wasting your life playing the system for a few £££ out of some sense of 'grudge match' against the state.

 

I went to my local supermarket today and saw people paid to push trolley's who were clearly a bit 'special' but I bet you a week's dole they were being paid more than JSA? SO if they can find a job why can't you? Or are all your very subjective posts simply ideological?

 

Please do tell?

 

(Look forward to seeing my post deleted before you have the right of reply. Oh well).

Edited July 9, 2014 by CarolNG
spelling mistake. (I know they'll pick up on it ;)

[essexmat]

Oh where to start with this one. Right, firt of all I do not play the system, I have worked since I was 13 and paid tax and NI for 19 years with around 2 months sickness in the whole 19 years. I travelled over 2 hours each way to work leaving at 6am and getting home near on 8pm for years. I worked hard, gained promotions and earnt well in excess of £30k+ bonuses and other benefits. I was made redundant in Feb 2013 after 19 years at the same company, I got debt free with my redundancy pay.

 

I take umbrage to your comments, you do not know me or my situation - I am claiming MY money not the governments, you know, that NATIONAL INSURANCE I paid for for instances such as this.

 

You think benefits are for disabled and uneducated people? What about pensioners? What about people who get tax credits? What about people like my Father who worked for 40 odd years had 3 strokes is disabled and could no longer work - does he not fall in to your 'boat' and allowed to claim his disability and pension? I can assure you he was educated and commanded a large salary - did he want to give up? Did he want to become disabled?

 

I get JSA and HB, I live in rented accommodation and I will be damned if I am pushing a trolley in a supermarket for minimum wage (no disrespect to people that do by the way) when I do not want to do this as I get more on JSA and HB than I would pushing a trolley for a living - that sounds horrid but it is stone hard FACTS even with allowed benefits for low pay. It is not my sector, I am not a retail person and I never will be, luckily I have no dependants so I CAN BE CHOOSY - that is me, that is my right.

 

As for WP providers, it is 1 year before being sent there not 6 months so you need to do your reserach first before commenting on this. Fact is I, along with many others I know have tried to gain full time emplyment in our skill sets and sectors, contratry to belief there are very few REAL jobs on half decent pay on permanent contracts as those at threat of redundancy get first dibs (no problem with this by the way)

 

I have no grudge, I simply stand up for myself, the system stinks and I am claiming MY money not the states and will continue to do so until I get a job that I feel is right for me and pays enough for me to better my life. Until then I won't be bullied in to taking seasonal, temp or mundane non skilled work that I do not want to do and the employer will see fit to not take to me as I would show zero interest or enthusiasm. I am not big headed, I am doing what *I* feel is best for ME, not the DWP and rightfully claimy what I am ENTITLED to by law.

 

Your post was rude and uninformative, we are not all lazy or scroungers as some TV shows dictate us to be.

 

Have a think about that.

 

Goodnight.

[Tj rodgers]

With the best will in the world - EssexMatt and Lapsed Workoholic sound like such articulate and intelligent people it's a real shame they spend so much of their energy looking for ways to undermine and play the benefits system rather than just getting stuck in and working. Benefits are for people who are disabled and uneducated and can't help themselves, OR for those of us who are temporarily on hard times and need a safety net (IE you wouldn't even be put on WP if you'd been unemployed for less than 6 months).

 

You will both probably take this the wrong way of course, but I mean it in respect - you seem to intelligent too be wasting your life playing the system for a few £££ out of some sense of 'grudge match' against the state.

 

I went to my local supermarket today and saw people paid to push trolley's who were clearly a bit 'special' but I bet you a week's dole they were being paid more than JSA? SO if they can find a job why can't you? Or are all your very subjective posts simply ideological?

 

Please do tell?

 

(Look forward to seeing my post deleted before you have the right of reply. Oh well).

Actually the minimum wage jobs pay exactly the same as my Jobseekers Allowance once My Rent Council tax and travel has been taken care of infact because i have asthema i would be worse of as i Require 3 prescriptions every fortnight which currently i get for free

[CarolNG]

"I CAN BE CHOOSY ".

 

This says it all. Well done.

 

Of course you CAN choose not to take jobs that pay less than you feel you 'deserve'... But also then don't whine on if the system expects you to jump through a few hoops when you point blank refuse to take paying jobs. When you were working and paying tax would you have felt the same way? Come on, be honest!

[Lapsed Workaholic]

Hello CarolNG, I usually acknowledge new members with a few words of welcome, forgive me if I make an exception in your case.

 

In case it slipped your keen eye this site is called Consumer Action Group. It’s function is to try and provide help, support and advice to consumers who have for one reason or another be let down or disappointed with the goods or by the services that they are by right entitled to.

 

When I needed help this site provided it, where were you and your kind? I was grateful for that help and now I try to repay my debt of gratitude by contributing to the best of my ability using what I know to hopefully help and support others at a time when they are reaching out for it. I don’t call that playing the system.

While you and your kind walk by on the other side putting on airs and graces and sneering at the expense of such as the ‘special’ trolley-pushers at the supermarkets some of us try to use the few talents God gave us to improve the lot of those that the system is failing.

 

We get more than enough of your kind of respect from Ian Duncan Smith’s DWP. 10,000 murdered last year, 5,000,000 in poverty. Your remarks here would suggest that you wish to be counted as an accomplice. Who’s going to be there when they come for you, your attitude is both pathetic and sad

 

PS: Essexmatt, Don’t know about you but I feel dirty and contaminated. Being complemented by that felt like what Judas’s kiss of death must have felt like.

[ims21]

Apologies for the interruption guys.

 

The troll has now been dealt with.

[Lapsed Workaholic]

For you Essexmat. Thanks for the moral support

 

You would dot an' carry on

Till the longest day was done;

An' you didn't seem to know the use o' fear.

If we charged or broke or cut,

You could bet your bloomin' nut,

You’d be waitin' fifty paces right flank rear.

With your mussick' on your back,

You would skip with our attack,

An' watch us till the bugles made "Retire,"

An' for all your dirty 'ide

You was white, clear white, inside

When you went to tend the wounded under fire!

It was "Din! Din! Din!"

With the bullets kickin' dust-spots on the green

 

You lifted up my 'ead,

An' you plugged me where I bled,

An' you guv me 'arf-a-pint o' water green.

It was crawlin' and it stunk,

But of all the drinks I've drunk,

I'm gratefullest to the one from Gunga Din

 

By the livin' Gawd that made you,

You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din!

[Mr.P]

- Always make sure you can get transport to the job. If in doubt, go to Google Maps and type in the name of the place you live and the place you will be working for.

 

"I've had 12 clients go into work in the past week. I'm telling you. What? You think i'm lying? She's laughing. Do you think I'm laughing, doll? I'm deadly serious."

 

"Well gee doll.... I just applied for a job with an outfit at this address: 1600 Amphitheatre Parkway, Mountain View - Google Maps says 'We could not calculate directions between PE1, UK and 1600 Amphitheatre Pkwy, Mountain View'"

 

Oh, and I too have had the "We found jobs for X people last week" line - When I asked "and how many clients do you currently have on your books ?" and pointed out that X out of XXX was a pretty damned poor show, things went a little quiet