H CEO please help I can't cope anymore

[HCEOs]

With respect, you should sell the car and pay your debt.

[Looneyfitter]

With respect the car Technically isnt mine and selling it would mean taking a massive dividend which would then mean no wages which in turn means the mortgage isnt paid.

[Looneyfitter]

Hi can someone please clarify my position for me please.

In 2011 I bought a new car.

Now I have a ltd company and of which the Invoices are paid into my Personnal Account as I have never set up a Business Acc.

 

I had a fairly big invoice paid so I went the bank and withdrew a Large sum of cash and bought a new car with my company money.

The car was registered in my name and off I went.

 

Now I have an outstanding CCJ and the Bailiff is trying to take the car.

Where do I legally stand with ownership?

If the car is taken the Tax Man is going to want to know what happened to the money etc.

 

Kind Regards.

[wonkeydonkey]

I would disagree.

 

The creditor may be putting pressure on the HCEO and given that the debtor has sufficient assets to easily cover the debt it should be paid in full in my opinion. It is not right that the creditor has to wait years for their money when the debtor has the ability to settle it quit easily.

 

I would also add that many repayment arrangements are agreed at the time of initial enforcement and some HCE companies have a clause that any agreement will be reviewed in a year to see if the debtors personal circumstances have improved.

In my opinion a phone call to say the amount was now due in full cannot be considered to having 'reviewed' the debtors personal circumstances. I would have thought a request to complete a CFS or similar would be needed to form the basis of any 'review' that would identify any changes in the debtors circumstances.

[afcwben]

To all intents and purposes the car is yours not your company, I think you may have issues with your accounts and how you are operating a business as the taxman will consider all the reciepts to be of a personal nature are you operating a LTD company?

[Looneyfitter]

To all intents and purposes the car is yours not your company, I think you may have issues with your accounts and how you are operating a business as the taxman will consider all the reciepts to be of a personal nature are you operating a LTD company?

 

Thanks for your reply. Yes it's a ltd company. Do I have to set a business Acc up by law? I didn't know

[topcat1802]

Believe it or not, its not a legal requirement for a limited company to have its own bank account, but here are a few reasons why a limited company needs it own bank account

1. Where a person is holding money on behalf of the company, he is borrowing money from that company. This is likely to be the case where a person’s own bank account is being used as a company bank account and the account is in credit, even if the only transactions on the account are company ones. Borrowing money from the company can be illegal under the Companies Act 2006. It can also lead to additional tax liabilities in the form of Section 455 tax, and tax and National Insurance on beneficial employee loans.
   
2. If the business is unfortunate enough to be subject to a tax investigation, all of its records and bank accounts will be reviewed. Once HMRC discover that a personal bank account is being used for company transactions, they may extend the scope of their investigation to the director as well.
   
3. If bank interest and charges have been paid on the account, HMRC may not allow tax relief on them on the grounds that they have not been incurred in the company’s name.
   
4. Where company funds are held in a private bank account, the distinction between the company and its owner is blurred. This may cause difficulties if the company becomes insolvent, and the owner wishes to rely on the principle of limited liability to avoid being held personally liable for any business debts. This would be particularly relevant with a bank overdraft, if there were no personal guarantee in place.
   

[Looneyfitter]

Hi can anyone help me please? I have an outstanding Peraonal debt of £2200 to the creditor and Hceo fees of £650ish

 

My questions are

 

Can the bailiff levy of multiple items outside? They have levied on all of the below.

 

My 25k Range Rover ( this is in my name ) but was actually bought by my Ltd Company and is used for the Business and SDP. We also have a disabled son and my wife and he depend on the car.

 

MY £3000 Transit van which is used for work and is is property of my company.

 

A caravan (£1200) which is used for storage of my work goods/tools and is property of the company.

 

A £3000 kit car which belongs to me.

 

Surely they can't levy on all these items for such a debt? They have valued the car at 13k auction. I have told them it's worth a lot more and id be losing 12k.

 

I have been paying this bill for 3 years now and the bill has never come down really due to extra fees?/low payback etc.

 

The other thing is I have been paying this writ regularly and have never missed a payment. The 1st 2 years was only £30 p/m and the last year was £50 p/m.

 

I have £2000 which I can pay but the creditor is adamant they want full payment or they are coming for the car??? I have told them it's company property (they not bothered). I just don't have all that money.. The creditor did say today that she would accept £1750 as a final payment but I had to go through the Hceo. Can the creditor legally decline payment?

 

When can the bailiff charge? I don't agree with there fees. I have asked for a breakdown but it was very vague.

 

They seemed to just make attendances for no reason. 3 times last week asking for I & E forms which I had emailed numerous times. Can they charge for these visits? I have also made 2 previous offers to pay more money which have been declined by the creditor. Instead of emailing me the hceo had attended?

 

Would it be worth my while applying to the court for a variation payment order? Would this stop the bailiff in his tracks?

 

What would you advise? Really need help now.. Stressed

Many thanks

[ploddertom]

They may only seize the goods of the debtor so if any goods are the property of a 3rd party then they should be claimed as such and proof of ownership must be shown. Is the original CCJ & Writ the HCEO holds made out in your personal name? Are the payments you have been making a result of an agreement with the HCEO or as a result of an Order from the Court? Can you explain about the vagueness of the breakdown of fees?

[brassnecked]

Is the debt in your name personally, or in the name of the company, if the latter it may well be that you have an irregular levy, ploddertom will know more, but if it is the companies debt, only company assets usually can be seized, so maybe Transit up for grabs, Range Rover and caravan similarly, but not the kit car.

[HCEOs]

The HCEO has technically levied too much but that does not make the seizure invalid.

 

The correct process is to make a claim to the goods using the interpleader process under RSC Order 17 which you will find if you Google it.

 

Clearly your kit car is up for grabs so it would be sensible to clear the debt. The creditor will be liable for the HCEO fees if they do a deal direct but you could get them to let the HCEO know that they'll accept a reduced figure although you are liable to the fees.

 

You could possibly challenge the fees but without knowing what they are it is difficult to advise.

[porkyp1g]

Why don't you sell the range rover if you know you can get a decent amount for it. Clear the debt and buy another car with the remainder of the money?

[HCEOs]

I must admit given the assets you talk of I tend to agree with porkyp1g.

 

If the HCEO comes back you'll be looking at a lot more than the £650....

[Looneyfitter]

Sorry to bring this back up. Can you help please?

 

Further to my recent posts, I never came to a new agreement with the creditor. I did however manage to increase my payments to £50 per month. Once again i never missed a payment.

 

Recently I have been hounded my the Bailiff's for Income and Expenditure forms which I have filled in and emailed back. The Bailiff would turn up again a few days later asking for another form even tho I had clarified with the office that they had received them.

 

I have also made numerous offers to try and clear the debt, one offer being £1300.

 

After this offer I had no correspondance from them apart from another visit asking for an I&E form? Again I told him they already have it.

 

He Levied on MY Car, My Van, My Kit Car and My caravan. Now the caravan is used as storage for my business, the van is in the Buisiness name.

 

He then went away. I then called the office to ask if the offer was accepted and I was told NO.

 

I have managed to borrow £700 iff family so I made an offer of £2000 to clear the debt via email on Friday gone. 7th March I also informed the Bailiff of what I had done.

 

I have just had a call off my Wife to say 2 Bailiff is at the door and they are taking the car. Is this possible? Even tho I am trying to sort things out? 2 Bailiffs charged £480 they were here for 18 minutes.

 

I have paid them the £2000 that I offered on Friday but now they are insisting I owe an additional £1152 which I have to pay £235.54 per month... I cant afford this.. Im already at £60 per month left to spend.

 

Below is a breakdown of the n55 forms which has been left. One is from last week and another from today.. The numbers dont even add up.

 

 

 

date 26-2-14 Judgement date 17-5-14 (i guess the writ was renewed)

 

Debt order £1752.56

award costs £787.87

interest £ 31.71

Credits £ 350

walkin Pos £ 0.30

 

Total £ 2,633.05 ( I get it to £ 2,222.44 )

 

Today no date written (but it is 10-3-14) Judgement date 17-5-11 (when the writ 1st issued)

 

Debt £1752.56

Award costs £ 824.38

Interst £ 34.38

Credit £ 350

Daily interest

5 days £ 1.65

Walkin Pos £ 0.30

Additional

Attendance £480 (todays visit I think) 2 men 2 small vans 18 minutes

 

Total £3,152.23 (I get it to £2743.27)

 

Breakdown HCE have sent me on 4th March. Far too vague.

 

Original Judgement

 

Judgement Debt £2,344.84 (2011)

execution costs £111.75

Interest £180.12

futher costs £ 0

 

Claimant total £2,636.71

Poundage £ 82.10

Officer Fees £ 670.71

 

Total Levy £ 3,388.96

less Payments £ 551.20

 

Balance £2,837.76

 

 

2012

Judgement Debt £1,986.56 (2012)

execution £111.75

interest £149.87

Further Cost £259.51

 

Claimant total £2507

poundage £ 67.16

Officer Fees £638.35

 

Total levy £3213.20

Payments £ 360.00

 

Balance £2853.20

 

2013

 

Judgement Debt £1752.56 (2013)

execution £111.75

Interest £ 34.05

Futher Costs £ 410.91

 

Claimant Total £2,309.27

Poundage £ 55.46

Officer Fees £ 656.88

 

Total Levy £3,021.61

Payments £ 350.00

 

Balance £2,671.61

 

Then paid 2k today

 

 

Can anyone advise on what I should do now? I have tried so hard to sort this out and they just arnt interested. We depend on the car (8 year old son has diabetes) and we just cant afford that kind of money.

 

Surely they cant just add what they want.

 

Please Help

 

Kind Regards

Edited March 10, 2014 by Looneyfitter

[Looneyfitter]

Hi Should I fill in a N245 for and also a stay of the writ do you think? I have also sent them a SAR. Really need to get this sorted tomorrow. Many thanks

[BazzaS]

Hi WD thanks for clearing that up much appreciated. May I ask tho, who do I send the SAR too? I will also send the Bailiff company name via PM as you suggested.

 

I have today put the car in the company name as I believe is is company property, it was paid for using company money at the end of the day. It also has the company Logo on the rear windows. I also use it for going to see customers etc. Also i dont actually believe there is a Levy on the car as there has never been any paperwork issued etc. Time will tell I suppose.

 

HCEO

 

My circumstances havent changed at all since we made the arrangement so why should they be able to demand more money now? I have another debt for 7k for a failed company I backed. Unfortunately i was took for 35k and it all went tits up. I pay this debt £50 p/m and its not a prob for the creditor. The van is also company property however when i sell it I will have to take the proceeds as a Dividend a pay them.

 

Thanks for all the help it really is appreciated.

 

 

Previously you have also said :

I checked my companies status as it was a Limited Company and unknown to me Companies House had Dissolved my company in May 2010.

 

Are these two different companies? If not, has the original company been restored to the register or is it still dissolved?

[Looneyfitter]

Previously you have also said :

 

 

Are these two different companies? If not, has the original company been restored to the register or is it still dissolved?

 

Hi thanks for the reply. Yes I had 2 companies. The one which the debt was for has been resolved. My current company is still going.

 

Can anyone confirm that " if a levy/seizure n55 form is filled out but a walking possession form is not filled out and signed" then the levy is classed as abandoned and therefor it is useless and also the fees are negligible?

[Looneyfitter]

Hi thanks for the reply. Yes I had 2 companies. The one which the debt was for has been resolved. My current company is still going.

 

Can anyone confirm that " if a levy/seizure n55 form is filled out but a walking possession form is not filled out and signed" then the levy is classed as abandoned and therefor it is useless and also the fees are negligible?

 

Anyone please?

[HCEOs]

No, you do not need a signed WP for a levy to be valid.

[Looneyfitter]

Hi HCEO thanks for the reply... Is the article below not right then?

 

 

Regulations do not define levy abandonment but an authorative definition of levy abandonment is available in the judgment of Bannister v Hyde [1860] 2 E&E 627. The judge said- "If the bailiff levies on goods then leaves the premises without a signed walking-possession agreement is evidence the levy has been abandoned".

 

 

 

Paragraph 54 of Schedule 12 of the Tribunals, Courts and Enforcement Act 2007 and Regulation 47 of the Taking Control of Goods Regulations 2013 sets the rules bailiffs must follow in the event of abandoning the levy.

How seizure SHOULD work:

 

When a bailiff seizes your goods or vehicle he will complete a document called a Notice of Seizure, sometimes called a Form 7

 

A High Court Enforcement Officer will use a Form 55 Notice of Seizure.

 

By completing these forms, bailiffs call this distrain or "distress" over your goods or vehicle listed on the form, and the form does not need to be signed by the debtor to be valid.

 

Once this form is complete, the bailiff has "levied" over your goods.

 

The bailiff may then ask you to sign a document called a form 8 walking-possession agreement.

 

A High Court Enforcement Officer will use a regulation 15 walking-possession agreement.

 

If you do not sign the walking-possession Agreement and the bailiff leaves the premises without taking the seized goods or vehicle (or leaves a wheel clamp on the vehicle), the levy becomes what is called, an abandoned levy and breaking entry cannot be lawfully made at a later date.

 

If no walking-possession agreement is signed by the debtor, the bailiff is unable to charge a fee.

 

When a bailiff hands you a Form 7 (High Court enforcement - a Form 55) with a list of goods on it, this is called a Notice of seizure. On its own this notice it is a worthless because one of the following must happen.

 

 

 

The bailiff must:

 

 

 

Collect the money to pay the debt, or

 

Remove the goods or vehicle seized and leave a receipt called a Form 9 "

 

Leave a person on the premises with the goods or vehicle until either the above is done. This arrangement is called a "Closed Possession"

 

 

 

If none of the above is done, then it becomes an abandoned levy and the seized vehicle or goods are still yours and you are free to take them away for safe keeping.

 

 

 

Closed possession is when a person remains on the premises to hold the seized goods, today this is rarely done.

 

 

 

Bailiffs think wheel clamping a vehicle is a substitute for closed possession and there is no case authority supporting this.

 

If a bailiff or HCEO leaves the premises with a wheel clamp on your vehicle, you can legally remove the clamp using bolt cutters and take the vehicle - even if you signed a walking-possession agreement.

 

 

 

A debtor-signed walking-possession agreement does not entitle the bailiff to deprive you the continued normal use of the levied goods or vehicle while it remains in your possession, so there is no criminal liability if you remove a wheel clamp using bolt cutters from the levied vehicle.

 

 

 

NOTE: If the levy on goods is invalid, and the bailiff has left the premises, this creates an abandoned levy. Check the list of grounds that constitutes an invalid levy

[HCEOs]

Unfortunately various forums are awash with incorrect advice.

 

You, like many, fall for tosh posted on that particular forum.

[wonkeydonkey]

Indeed HCEO's is right, there is a lot of incorrect advice doing the rounds that can seen to have come from that forum.High Court Enforcement advice needs at least basic understanding of its workings and it is becoming increasingly obvious the forum author does not posses even that!!!

[Looneyfitter]

Thanks for the replies. I guess I will just have to wait until the SAR comes back. I'm off to the court in the morning to file a n245. To try to vary the judgement and stay the execution.

 

Am I right in thinking that once the form is in, it's temp stayed until a hearing.

 

I have based it on the fact that I cannot afford the fees at £256 per month and also that I have submitted a SAR and I am waiting or it to come back.

 

Where do I stand with regards the n55 notice not being correct?

Ie, the figures on it don't add up on it

 

There is no date for the day it was wrote out..

 

Also he has also put the date of the 1st writ on it and not the date it was renewed.

 

Many thanks

[ploddertom]

Thanks for the replies. I guess I will just have to wait until the SAR comes back. I'm off to the court in the morning to file a n245. To try to vary the judgement and stay the execution. For a Stay you need N244.

Am I right in thinking that once the form is in, it's temp stayed until a hearing. No, a Stay only comes into operation once there is a Court Order to that effect. Just making an application has no effect at all.

 

I have based it on the fact that I cannot afford the fees at £256 per month and also that I have submitted a SAR and I am waiting or it to come back.

 

Where do I stand with regards the n55 notice not being correct? I doubt a technicality will have little effect.

Ie, the figures on it don't add up on it

 

There is no date for the day it was wrote out..

 

Also he has also put the date of the 1st writ on it and not the date it was renewed.

 

Many thanks

 

PT

[wonkeydonkey]

Thanks for the replies. I guess I will just have to wait until the SAR comes back. I'm off to the court in the morning to file a n245. To try to vary the judgement and stay the execution.

 

Am I right in thinking that once the form is in, it's temp stayed until a hearing.

 

I have based it on the fact that I cannot afford the fees at £256 per month and also that I have submitted a SAR and I am waiting or it to come back.

 

Where do I stand with regards the n55 notice not being correct?

Ie, the figures on it don't add up on it

 

There is no date for the day it was wrote out..

 

Also he has also put the date of the 1st writ on it and not the date it was renewed.

 

Many thanks

 

N245 is the correct form to make a variation application but it will not get you a stay of execution, for that you need to make a separate application on form N244. Only when the order to stay execution is made will it become effective, you would have been better to make that application using the grounds: 'pending application to a variation order' 'unable to afford the fees to which you are waiting further detailed information'.

 

The defect in the form 55 is very unlikely to be seen as detrimental to your case.If you have good reason to question the fees being charged, the correct way to move that forward is to make an application with use of Practice Direction 47of the Civil Procedure Rules and seek detailed assessment of the fees, he was correct to put the date of the original writ on any notice issued as that is the date the Court made the order and the renewal is basically to keep the writ active.