Cabot claimform Morgan Stanley goldfish card - settled out ofcourt

[Fred Bassett]

I've let this drift for a while and feel like I ought be getting on the front foot. Cabot are very good at cooking up cases and lying before the courts if some of the threads on here are anything to go by.

 

I'm a bit confused now as to how I should approach this. Should I go for them in terms of the unenforceablity of the agreement, or should I hammer away at the notice of assignment?

 

In the first instance, I think I will send them an SAR. I think I need to send one to Goldfish too.

 

Any advice would be welcome as always.

 

Fred

[Hadituptohere]

Hi Fred

 

I too had an alledged account with cabot for an old goldfish card ( as well as my Monument account), I SAR'd both cabot and goldfish and received the usuall rubbish unenforcable CCA and copies of statements, no assignment letter or default notice, but with the statements I found the total debt was made of charges and fees, I put this in writing to cabot and they have yet to issue a claim for this account, this seems to have been put on the backburner, its either cabot feel they have no chance with this or their waiting for the outcome of the monument claim. I also sent Goldfish and Cabot notice that I was proceding with a claim for the charges back and recieved no reply from either.

 

Hadituptohere

[Fred Bassett]

Hi Fred

 

I too had an alledged account with cabot for an old goldfish card ( as well as my Monument account), I SAR'd both cabot and goldfish and received the usuall rubbish unenforcable CCA and copies of statements, no assignment letter or default notice, but with the statements I found the total debt was made of charges and fees, I put this in writing to cabot and they have yet to issue a claim for this account, this seems to have been put on the backburner, its either cabot feel they have no chance with this or their waiting for the outcome of the monument claim. I also sent Goldfish and Cabot notice that I was proceding with a claim for the charges back and recieved no reply from either.

 

Hadituptohere

 

Thanks for that. What worries me is that Cabot are adding interest onto this at the rate of 12%. I don't want to find that in a couple of years time the debt has doubled and they win in court. I want to stop it now, one way or another. At the moment, If they took me to court and won, it wouldn't be the end of the world. But I don't want that happening 2-3 years hence.

 

If I thought they could win against me I would start paying now, but I want to force the issue somehow.

 

Regards.

 

Fred

[militantconsumer]

Hi Fred

 

Well, that is obviously one of their scare tactics - make people want to pay now to avoid the interest.

 

We disputed their right to charge interest without a credit agreement and they wrote back to say no interest had been charged since they bought the account (even though interest had started appearing on their letters before that).

 

This was on an old Next Directory account.

[diddydicky]

Thanks for that. What worries me is that Cabot are adding interest onto this at the rate of 12%. I don't want to find that in a couple of years time the debt has doubled and they win in court. I want to stop it now, one way or another. At the moment, If they took me to court and won, it wouldn't be the end of the world. But I don't want that happening 2-3 years hence.

 

If I thought they could win against me I would start paying now, but I want to force the issue somehow.

 

Regards.

 

Fred

 

why not write to them and point out that as you are disputing this matter and you have no intention whatsoever of making any payment to them unless ordered by a court that they should, if they believe they have a legally enforceable agreement, bring the matter before a court to decide on the matter.

 

point out that in case they are minded to simply let the matter drift, in order to "rack up" interest and costs, that you will bring this letter, and their failure to act to the attention of any court subsequently dealing with the matter

[patrickq1]

I'm bumping this one again. I've SARd them and they finally responded after being nudged by officialdom. Where does that leave me? If they haven't sent me a copy of a DN, does it mean that no DN was served or can they now turn round and say "sorry, we forgot". Is the fact that I didn't get a copy proof of anything.

 

I just don't know how to play this. I'm slightly worried because this is the beggest of the debts that I'm paying and it's now with Cabot. So far they've been fine, but somehow I don't expect it to last, especially as I have another account with them which I'm currently giving them the run-around on.

 

Regards.

 

Fred

 

they would have to be put on the strictest proof that they sent you a default notice by registered post i beleive fred

[patrickq1]

Hi Pinky, I don't care about the default notice in terms of my credit file because that's shot to bits anyway. What I'm thinking of is not paying them any more. It seems to me that I've missed a trick on this account anyway because I don't think I ever received any Ts & Cs.

if you were from 2003 going back your only t and c would be the application and that certainly did not contain all the t and c in the four corners it only made provision for you to aggree to share data,but since they discontinued your contract or terminated they contract wothout the strictest prof they have effectively blown it and MS know this too so dont worry fred just keep on top of it and put any of the other companies on the strictest proof protocal,if any of them turn up with something then you can bet your bottom dollar it is not as it seems and is a fraudulent document..

patrickq1

[Pinky69]

Banks don't keep copies of DNs, Fred - they do them on templates and use the same templates over and over again. So that leaves proof of postage and if they isn't recorded in the account history in the SAR reply, they didn't send a DN. The account was therefore rescinded when they sold it to Cabot.

You may have a heck of a job getting the message to Cabot at the moment because they are chasing everything that moves after their recent multi-million pond loss. What I did was write to their complaints department, explain to them that the alleged account was rescinded and I had no intentions of ever paying them a penny. I haven't heard from them since. They seemed to give up when told straight that any further pursuit was waste of their money, a sore point with them and one to emphasise. I had 4 accounts sold to Cabot and I didn't pay a penny on any of them.

[babybear39]

Subscribing...

[Fred Bassett]

Thanks for your replies on this folks. I'm going to have another look through the paperwork and see if I can find any reference at all to a default notice.

 

If they haven't sent one, what exactly is implication of this?

 

Regards.

 

Fred

[Pinky69]

The implications are that if no DN has been issued prior to termination/selling on, that has the same effect as when the DN is unlawful. The agreement is rescinded and they can only claim arrears - if. that is. they have a properly executed agreement that allows them to claim the arrears. Cabot won't know anything about claiming arrears so I wouldn't enlighten them. They will just want all or nothing and you can tell them they are getting nothing.

[Fred Bassett]

Thanks Pinky,

 

The problem as I see it, is how do I prove that no default notice was sent?

 

I've just realised how urgent this is becoming. those sneaky gits Cabot are charging me a massive interest rate, but I only found out by chance when I did a credit check. In the last 9 months, I have paid about £700 but the debt have gone up by £600.

 

I'm really hacked off with them.

 

I may just write to Cahoot and ask them if a default was ever issued and if so, could I have a copy of it.

 

Presumably, If no DN has been issued, I could stop paying Cabot once the amount of arrears at the time the DN should have been issued have been paid off.

 

Regards.

 

Fred

[Pinky69]

If there is nothing listed in a history of transactions, they did not send a DN. Cabot didn't claim the arrears - they claimed the full amount and they are not entitled to do that. I would put the debt in dispute on that basis and not pay them another penny. If they then continue to pursue you, as they will, you can complain to their complaints department and report them to the OFT for pursuing a rescinded account in dispute. I am taking Cabot to court in the New Year for entering a default on my credit report which had no agreement and was rescinded at the point of sale to them (it has since expired but I am suing them for damages for the period it ws there). Tell the CRAs the entry shouldn't be there and why. You can also make a formal complaint to the ICO that they are processing your data when they shouldn't be - the alleged account is rescinded. Use that information for your benefit. Some of it will work, some not but what you will be doing is keeping up the pressure on Cabot - you are then in control.

[Fred Bassett]

Thanks Pinky. I don't know if I've done the wrong thing here, but I've written to Cahoot to ask them if they issued a DN or not and if so, to send me a copy. I'm reasoning here that they shouldn't really have any axe to grind having got shot of it anyway. I just pray that the answer is "no". If I get that confirmed, then I will tell Cabot to go forth and multiply.

 

Regards.

 

Fred

[Fred Bassett]

By the way, there was something in one of the screen dumps about the account being in default, but no reference to an actual DN. Also, I'm not convinced they've sent me everything - the paperwork only goes back to the time I got into trouble - although that of course would be when a DN would have been sent.

 

Regards.

 

Fred

[Fred Bassett]

I just realised I might be missing a trick here.

 

This account was never defaulted by Goldfish. Does this mean that they have rescinded the contract unlawfully?

 

Regards.

 

Fred

[davefirewalker]

I just realised I might be missing a trick here.

 

This account was never defaulted by Goldfish. Does this mean that they have rescinded the contract unlawfully?

 

Regards.

 

Fred

 

If you have never received a default / termination notice and they have sold the debt on and are asking for the full balance......then yes, you have them by the short and curlies..

 

mind you proving that they NEVER sent a default notice may be difficult.....its really hard to prove a negative

 

Dave

[diddydicky]

you need to sar them

[spartathisis]

Just a slight aside on similar matter. Cabot have told me in writing that MBNA terminated my contract then sold it to them. Question, if the contract is terminated, on the back of a dodgy DN, how can it be sold? I know it sounds dumb and I should know better, but if they cancel it how can they then do anything with it without my agreeing to any change, the T & C's supplied by Cabot state that they (MBNA) can assign while the contract is in force. If no longer in force how can it be assigned?

 

Too much xmas pud n booze methinks:)

[vint1954]

Just a slight aside on similar matter. Cabot have told me in writing that MBNA terminated my contract then sold it to them. Question, if the contract is terminated, on the back of a dodgy DN, how can it be sold? I know it sounds dumb and I should know better, but if they cancel it how can they then do anything with it without my agreeing to any change, the T & C's supplied by Cabot state that they (MBNA) can assign while the contract is in force. If no longer in force how can it be assigned?

 

Too much xmas pud n booze methinks:)

They can sell the benefits of the account on, while the agreement is in force, bit the new provider must be able to cary on the running account, that is offer you running credit facilities.

 

They need to issue a DN, to enable them to enjoy the benefits of s87.

 

As DD says, you need to send an SAR.

[diddydicky]

Just a slight aside on similar matter. Cabot have told me in writing that MBNA terminated my contract then sold it to them. Question, if the contract is terminated, on the back of a dodgy DN, how can it be sold? I know it sounds dumb and I should know better, but if they cancel it how can they then do anything with it without my agreeing to any change, the T & C's supplied by Cabot state that they (MBNA) can assign while the contract is in force. If no longer in force how can it be assigned?

 

Too much xmas pud n booze methinks:)

 

well, if they terminated the agreement (unlawfully in this case) and you have accepted this- then the agreement no longer exists- and you are no longer a "party" to it

 

thus, they would not need your "permission" to sell something which is none of your business!!

 

If you want to now "make it your business" then you run the risk of accepting that you do not consider that the agreement is at an end

[Fred Bassett]

I got this from Cabot today and I've seen one of these on here recently. This is a bit naughty as it would only take a nosy postman a few seconds to realise that I was being chased by a debt collection agency, as you can see from the extract of a google search. I'm going to make an official complaint about this one, for what good it will do.

 

[Fred Bassett]

It can't be that urgent either - it was only sent second class.

 

Fred

[patrickq1]

mind you proving that they NEVER sent a default notice may be difficult

 

they would have to show dave that it was sent by registered post would nt they

[angry cat]

It can't be that urgent either - it was only sent second class.

 

Fred

 

DN's are always sent 2nd class;

more often, third class (4 days for delivery);

the ace is, the date of receipt plus keep the envelope!