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    • the claimant in their WS can refer to whatever previous CC judgements they like, as we do in our WS's, but CC judgements do not set a legal precedence. however, they do often refer to judgements like Bevis, those cases do created a precedence as they were court of appeal rulings. as for if the defendant, prior to the raising of a claim, dobbed themselves in as the driver in writing during any appeal to the PPC, i don't think we've seen one case whereby the claimant referred to such in their WS.. ?? but they certainly typically include said appeal letters in their exhibits. i certainly dont think it's a good idea to 'remind' them of such at the defence stage, even if the defendant did admit such in a written appeal. i would further go as far to say, that could be even more damaging to the whole case than a judge admonishing a defendant for not appealing to the PPC in the 1st place. it sort of blows the defendant out the water before the judge reads anything else. dx  
    • Hi LFI, Your knowledge in this area is greater than I could possibly hope to have and as such I appreciate your feedback. I'm not sure that I agree the reason why a barrister would say that, only to get new customers, I'm sure he must have had professional experience in this area that qualifies him to make that point. 🙂 In your point 1 you mention: 1] there is a real danger that some part of the appeal will point out that the person appealing [the keeper ] is also the driver. I understand the point you are making but I was referring to when the keeper is also the driver and admits it later and only in this circumstance, but I understand what you are saying. I take on board the issues you raise in point 2. Is it possible that a PPC (claimant) could refer back to the case above as proof that the motorist should have appealed, like they refer back to other cases? Thanks once again for the feedback.
    • Well barristers would say that in the hope that motorists would go to them for advice -obviously paid advice.  The problem with appealing is at least twofold. 1] there is a real danger that some part of the appeal will point out that the person appealing [the keeper ] is also the driver.  And in a lot of cases the last thing the keeper wants when they are also the driver is that the parking company knows that. It makes it so much easier for them as the majority  of Judges do not accept that the keeper and the driver are the same person for obvious reasons. Often they are not the same person especially when it is a family car where the husband, wife and children are all insured to drive the same car. On top of that  just about every person who has a valid insurance policy is able to drive another person's vehicle. So there are many possibilities and it should be up to the parking company to prove it to some extent.  Most parking company's do not accept appeals under virtually any circumstances. But insist that you carry on and appeal to their so called impartial jury who are often anything but impartial. By turning down that second appeal, many motorists pay up because they don't know enough about PoFA to argue with those decisions which brings us to the second problem. 2] the major parking companies are mostly unscrupulous, lying cheating scrotes. So when you appeal and your reasons look as if they would have merit in Court, they then go about  concocting a Witness Statement to debunk that challenge. We feel that by leaving what we think are the strongest arguments to our Member's Witness Statements, it leaves insufficient time to be thwarted with their lies etc. And when the motorists defence is good enough to win, it should win regardless of when it is first produced.   
    • S13 (2)The creditor may not exercise the right under paragraph 4 to recover from the keeper any unpaid parking charges specified in the notice to keeper if, within the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which that notice was given, the creditor is given— (a)a statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement; (b)a copy of the hire agreement; and (c)a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement. As  Arval has complied with the above they cannot be pursued by EC----- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- S14 [1]   the creditor may recover those charges (so far as they remain unpaid) from the hirer. (2)The conditions are that— (a)the creditor has within the relevant period given the hirer a notice in accordance with sub-paragraph (5) (a “notice to hirer”), together with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph 13(2) and the notice to keeper; (b)a period of 21 days beginning with the day on which the notice to hirer was given has elapsed;  As ECP did not send copies of the documents to your company and they have given 28 days instead of 21 days they have failed to comply with  the Act so you and your Company are absolved from paying. That is not to say that they won't continue asking to be paid as they do not have the faintest idea how PoFA works. 
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UK CPM PCN The Gym Alperton - Atlip Centre


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Also, how did you contact the gym?

 

If you're sure it is the gym who have employed these conmen, send them a strongly-worded letter demanding they get the invoice cancelled and asking what on earth has possessed them to employ bandits who are driving away their genuine customers.

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wrong thread

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I have attached the letter they sent with the relevant information attached.

 

If I changed my address, would that help?

 

based on this dude's thread, seems like ignoring it wasn't a good course of action?

Or even changing the address.

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?462223-UKCPM-Debt-recovery-plus-letters

debt collectors.pdf

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you have complately missed the point on that thread and it looks like you are looking for excuses to fail rather than looking for reasons to succeed.

if you have moved since receiving the initial letter then do write to them and say the following.

 

" The address for service of documents in this matter (their ref) is (new address)

but just so it is clear it is denied that any monies are owed to your clients,

let alone the rip off fees you unlawfully add to this so you can inform your paymasters they are wasting their time and you are wasting their money

 

Should anyone be daft enough to continue to send papers to my old address then that will be used against UKCPM as an abuse of process and a breach of the DPA under condition 1 and my costs sought"

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The fact that they refer to the 'Supreme court case' and bleat on about how their charges are 'legal' speaks volumes, I haven't laughed so much in ages!!

 

Silly little children.

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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So, the gym has replied saying the following:

 

I understand your frustration, and know that many people would like to stay and train, or visit the supplement store for longer than 2hrs.

 

However, the time limit has always been this duration, and it's unfortunately not set by us.

 

The road the centre is on is a private road, and the company placed in charge of the car park has put that time limit into effect,

not the centre itself or the companies within it,

so there's very little chance that things will change in that respect.

 

There is now a system in place whereby you enter your registration into a tablet in the gym entrance and it logs your stay for up to 2hrs so as long as you're within that, it's perfectly safe to park.

 

I am really very sorry but on this occasion though, I'm not going to be able to get this ticket cancelled for you.

 

I have Sent a letter to the "debt collectors" worded the way you suggested, and now I am playing the waiting game.

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let the gym know

"that you will be seeking a discount that is proportional to the time you are allowed to stop there so a reduction of fees of around 30% would be reasonable under the circumstances, backdated a year.

 

This is within your control even if the parking isnt.

 

As for entering the vehicle details that allows you to enter into negotiations with them for parking so the time limit is negotiable after all and your response is thus afalsehood"

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This really feels like one of those places where the tail wags the dog. Would be interesting to see what the other businesses say about parking.

If you spend 2hrs in the gym then you're not allowed to visit any other business on the site because the ppc says so?

Illegitimi non carborundum

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problem is that these leased places on trading estates are managed by a company

this brings in the shysters to manage the parking

but all of the land is owned by a large corporation like British Land, who wash their hands of everything.

 

The only way to get change is for all of the companies to protest when it is rent time and that is agreed once a year.

 

The management contract for places like this tend to be interpreted as giving the MA full control of the day to day

so the chain of authority is normally accepted in court, even if it isnt explicit.

 

I agree that making a fuss to all of the companies there as a concerted effort may bear fruit

but unless you know everyone else at the gym and can persuade them to write rather than grumble it is all a bit piecemeal.

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I'd thank the gym for their failure to focus on their customers needs and cancel the DD, vote with your feet and go to a gym that isn't so spineless.

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...
you have complately missed the point on that thread and it looks like you are looking for excuses to fail rather than looking for reasons to succeed.

if you have moved since receiving the initial letter then do write to them and say the following.

 

" The address for service of documents in this matter (their ref) is (new address)

but just so it is clear it is denied that any monies are owed to your clients,

let alone the rip off fees you unlawfully add to this so you can inform your paymasters they are wasting their time and you are wasting their money

 

Should anyone be daft enough to continue to send papers to my old address then that will be used against UKCPM as an abuse of process and a breach of the DPA under condition 1 and my costs sought"

 

So I have sent them a letter worded closely as you have suggested.

 

The address was changed and they are still sending letters to the old address and i only know this because I know the person living there.

 

They have ignored what I have mailed them.

 

What would be the next order of action as they claim now to suggest to their client to take me to court *laughing face*

 

Thanks

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as long as you sent them a letter not email.

then you are safe

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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as long as you sent them a letter not email.

then you are safe

 

Thank you.

 

I did tell the person living there to not open and RTS the letters but they failed to do so. I will await a new letter from them at my new place and update this accordingly.

 

Thank you to everyone for their help thus far.

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well don't RTS

you need the incase of letter before claim comes

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 2 weeks later...

yep atleast they know ack your correct address.

  • Confused 1

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 1 month later...

That's a "rent-a-letterhead" job. It's not really from Gladrags, it's from Daft Recovery.

 

You'll notice that is says to contact and/or pay Daft Recovery, whereas if it really was from Gladrags, they'd want you to pay them so that they get their cut.

 

Complaining to the SRA (even though Gladrags have broken the rules by allowing someone else to use their letterhead) won't do any more than waste a stamp, so just file it, it's completely safe to ignore.

Please note that my posts are my opinion only and should not be taken as any kind of legal advice.
In fact, they're probably just waffling and can be quite safely and completely ignored as you wish.

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And you can always tell if they know their left from right, when they refer to the Beavis case, which is completely irrelevant in 99% of other parking cases.

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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I thought it was weird that they say not to contact gladstones and to contact DRP directly.

 

Thanks for clarify guys!

 

I might just print out a few copies and use it as toilet paper for a few days lol

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