£50 fine for dropping cigarette end!

[Trojan1401]

I agree, parking, speeding, litter fines et al, are all simply revenue raisers with little or no chance in mitigating the circumstances. All such fines are easy meat for the authorities as most people simply pay.

The only course of action the public have is not to pay such fines. If everyone stuck together then something would have to be done. However like me, most people are "too honest" and simply pay up - thta's why we are targeted.

As you say, real criminals who end up with a fine simply do not pay. Do the end up in jail, certainly not but I bet you or me would. They'd let out early the "granny basher" to make space for someone commiting the heinous crime of dropping a fag end or doing 80 on an mway and not paying the fine.

 

Rant over !

[TheAnalyst]

Interesting responses ...

 

Can I just make it clear that I actually am very careful not to drop litter.

 

I fully agree there's no excuse for throwing away food wrappers, fish and chip boxes, cans of pop and what have you and I never would however fag butts are a bit of a grey area in my opinion due to the fact that you could actually cause a fire if you put them in a bin, I honestly never actually considered putting out my fag end on the ground as littering.

 

I can tell you that being repromanded by "litter police", picking it up and putting it in a bin in front of a whole street full of people would have been embarassing enough that I'd not be doing it again in a hurry but there really was no need for the £50 fine.

[buzby]

Just one question. These Litter Enforcement Gestapo Officers, what powers do they actually have?

 

It is covered by the EPA - see this from the Glasgow Council's website;

 

Litter is a blight on the streets and open spaces in Glasgow and action is being taken by the Clean Glasgow Team to encourage all who live, work and play in the City to improve things.

Clean Glasgow Campaign.

Litter Wardens have recently been engaged to patrol Glasgow and their role is to issue fixed penalty notices (£50) in terms of the Environmental Protection Act to people who litter. This includes cigarette ends and chewing gum.

Our policy is to issue fixed penalty notices to all who are seen to litter the streets and open spaces of Glasgow and our wardens are under instruction to issue a fixed penalty notice even if the offender offers to pick up the litter. In the event of non payment the case will be referred to the procurator fiscal who will probably impose a higher fine or may take the matter to court where a fine of up to £2500 can be imposed.

[threeamp]

Why has no one answered kregrs's question, i would also like to know what powers these council employees have?

[threeamp]

By that i mean are you obliged to give your details to someone in an iffy uniform, do they have the right to detain you etc??

[postggj]

beat me to that question

 

what rights have these enforcement people have to your details

they are not police and to my knowledge not there powers

can you just walk away

[buzby]

Why has no one answered kregrs's question, i would also like to know what powers these council employees have?

 

Already answered in #53 - check the link. The provisions are part of hte EPA.

[patdavies]

Already answered in #53 - check the link. The provisions are part of hte EPA.

 

No is wasn't already answered.

 

The EPA allows for the enforcement of litter offences by way of an FPN, but there is absolutely nothing about the power to require a name and address or to detain (even whilst an FPN is written out/issued)

[postggj]

thanks for clarification pat

 

so if one of the council gestapo stop you, you can just walk off by not acknowleging them

 

can they then do a citizens arrest untill a copper appears on the plot.

then you would have to give your details.

[letshelp]

There is no power of arrest for litter, only under Section 25 PACE, and that only applies to the cops. If the 'Warden@ arrests you for litter I would say that you are in compo heaven;)

regards

[lizilou]

I got fined £50 forvputting ciggy end down drain there was no bins or notices do I have to pay

[buzby]

If this is from one of the Council's wardens under the anti-littering laws, you can pay if you want to, or take it to court by notifying them you plan to appeal. If you do nothing, the fine increases and the Bailiffs are sent out at additional cost.

[wheresmyhairgone]

I doubt the issue has anything to do with the cost of collection - asking the offender to pick it up and dispose of it properly doesn't work, as there is no deterrent, do we need to shadow each smoker to remind them? Fining makes them think again, and unless they're really thick, they either get the message or waste more of their disposable income.

 

I`m a millionaire so a £50 fine is nothing to me, parking fines, who cares i,ll park where i like. In fact fines don,t bother me at all.

 

Now if i was to be fined according to my income then i might get the message.

 

P.S.

I,m not really worth millions just thought i would open the debate a bit.

[buzby]

The millionaire would probably give a fake address anyway. Our legal system sets a tariff, changing this to some scale of culpability based on the miscreants income, what about those with no income but sizeable assets?

 

A tariff based on actual prices gives them some worth that they've calculated a reasonable fine fit the crime.

[wheresmyhairgone]

Pardon!!!!!!

[buzby]

For what?

[wheresmyhairgone]

Pardon as in

 

What?

SAY that again. i did not understand

That did not make sense to me.

 

Not " PARDON ME"

[Lilythepink]

my sister was fined for throwing cigarette ash out of the window, although they could not provide her with any evidence, photos, just the word of a litter warden. Now I do and my sister agrees with the fines, but cigarette ash with no evidence surely not

[buzby]

Evidence is not usually required - all it takes is a'reasonable suspicion' by one or more of the attendants. It is their written statements that do the damage by saying what they saw. If you can challenge this and get a judge to agree, you're OK. The same holds true (although different legislation) for dog fouling.

[mcgu6240]

Well if all that is needed is someone's word against yours then the execution of this bylaw should not to be tolerated. I hate litter and often chastise people in the street who throw it about. But I hate a big brother society even more. There are wardens round here, as we live next to a school, who have tried to fine young people, but found out very quickly it was a waste of time as they legally can't enforce the fine due to their age.My son's friend was given an on the spot fine for breach of the peace, who is a lovely young man, but was fined for hanging with his mates. He lives with his gran and was terrified of her finding out- so paid up out of the little money he had even though he has never been violent, taken drugs or drunk. Why does our society want to criminalise our people, particularly the young so easily?

[buzby]

It isn't just 'anyone's' word - it is a publicly funded official who is there to ensure the local bylaws are enforced, usually because the Police had decided not to be involved in enforcement of this type. You are equally entitled to dispute their version of events and let a judge decide. Surely that is fair?

 

I have seen them operate in city centres, and frankly, they DO make a difference (a small one, granted) but would you rather the Police enforced it instead? It would still be their word against yours, so I don't see why you feel this is any different to what has been a legitimate enforcement process since the 1950's (probably earlier).

 

Regarding 'hanging with his mates', this would require a non-congregation area and be signposted as such. These usually result in an initial warning, and if dispersal doesn't take place, the ticket is the next sanction.

[Lilythepink]

The police have to provide evidence of speeding, by providing CCTV footage, but the litter brigade do not have to provide anything, and I am just afraid that some litter warden has some kind of target to meet, and they just look back to old cases and think if they've done it once, they could be believed to do it again.

[buzby]

You're being subjective. A Council CCTV operator can provide the same evidence of the litter being dropped. Similarly, without such corroboration, both the Council warden and Policeman would need to swear on oath that he witnessed the relevant action complained of. Nothing has changed.

[Guest Jason King]

I don't like litter but being fined for fag butts, or even fag ash, is just absolutely crazy.

 

This smacks of Durkheim's 'Society of Saints,' where people become exemplary individuals where, over time, even the slightest of misdemenours will become a crime.

 

It is unworkable and ridiculous.

[buzby]

....same thoughts on Chewing Gum...?