euro car parks pcn - Kingsmead, Stafford

[clint1974]

Please answer the following questions.

 

1 Date of the infringement Give answer here 09/09/23

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 14/09/23
 

3 Date received 18/09/23
 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? Y
 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes
 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] N/A
 

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up N/A
 

7 Who is the parking company? Euro car parks

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Kingsmead, Stafford
 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under.

BPA
 

There are two official bodies, the BPA and the IAS. If you are unsure,

please check HERE

 

If you have received any other correspondence, please mention it here

 

 

ECP NTK incident 2023-08-09.pdf

[Nicky Boy]

PDF had some info left on it... redacted and replaced

[Homer67]

So it's for an overstay but the NTK doesn't state how long the over stay was so how are you to know if it was 2 hours maximum and you overstayed by 36 minutes or if it was 2 hours 30 maximum and you overstayed by 6 minutes which would be covered in the minimum 10 minutes grace period - therefore I don't think the NTK is compliant.

Rule 1. Never, ever appeal. Wait to see if you get a properly worded Letter Before Action which will be some way down the road from now and after a complete forest of begging/threatening letters from these jokers.

Rule 2. Check back here if you have a wobble or get an LBA.

Edited September 19, 2023 by Homer67
typo

[FTMDave]

Homer is spot on.

From reading on-line it's two hours maximum and there has already been outcry from local businesses about Euro Car Parks  https://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/whats-on/whats-on-news/it-would-killed-trade-controversial-3457083

Given the fleecers have history for annoying locals and having to back down, it would be worth contacting the retail site, laying it on thick about being a genuine customer and both shopping and eating there, and ask that they call them off.

I can't find a damn e-mail address for them though.  The council have a page on the site, maybe contact the council and ask if they have a contact for the site?  https://www.ourbeautifulstaffordborough.co.uk/shopping/kingsmead-retail-park/  There are also shopkeepers mentioned in the article and also a councillor who might know.

 

[Nicky Boy]

Yes Dave,

I've spent some time trying to find a contact for the retail park.

Why can't they just have a website like other retail parks?

I've also trawled the on-park retailers websites, but they all just quote a vague "free parking onsite".

As you say, the reviews and news articles are bad.

Looks like they used to use the "reverse trespass" model here...

https://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/whats-on/whats-on-news/it-would-killed-trade-controversial-3457083

Maybe contacting that local rag might glean some useful inf about the Retail Park owners?

[Bazooka Boo]

Plus they openly admit that they use the cameras to ''capture images of vehicles entering and leaving the car park to calculate the length of their stay''

However the ''contravention'' is ''Your vehicle was 'parked' longer than the maximum period allowed''

Their cameras aren't used to capture how long you've been parked, in reality. you could have spent 18 minutes finding a spot to park and then another 18 minutes loading your vehicle with shopping and trying to exit the car park.

Bit silly these rules they dream up.

[Nicky Boy]

Been using Google spyview, but can't really get that close to any signs. I can just make it out, but can anyone else spot mention of a Parking Charge amount on this one?

(Can clint get any close up pics of the signage please?)

I understand that the Parking Charge amount should be in a bold font, which this certainly 'aint...

https://www.google.com/maps/@52.8080785,-2.1147796,3a,15.1y,322.03h,91.06t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s6Tw0gzLYImkqF92ZCKXZ9Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

 

[lookinforinfo]

The sign at the entrance is in white and on the wrong side of the road. It is  almost two lanes away from incoming cars, too much print on it to be picked up by incoming motorists and the print is too small. There is a quite large P at the top and below in smaller print are the words" camera controlled". Doubtful that most motorists would see it. The terms and conditions are on signs inside the car park so the sign is an offer to treat.

Inside the car park there are several different signs though most of them stipulate  maximum 2 stay .

The charge is £100 reduced to £60 if paid within 14 days.  Cameras are used .to register entry and  exit. And the terms of parking are included.There are large swathes of the car park that do not appear to have any signs at all

There is another sign that says the car park is for customer use only while others different signs occur where there are spaces for blue badge holders which I cannot read.

It would be worth a visit to show the signs especially a route showing how badly placed is the entrance sign then video through to show that it is possible to park there without being aware of the signs

 

[clint1974]

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/ehduwl88v5036ekk1znrk/h?rlkey=ca13byqtga8qdh397depcq9ra&dl=0

 

Video of drive into car park and still pictures of signage 

[honeybee13]

Hi.

We don't use Dropbox for security reasons. Could you resave your document/s as a pdf please? Our upload guide will help if you're not sure.

HB

[clint1974]

debt1.pdf

[honeybee13]

You can ignore DR+, they can't do anything apart from writing letters.

HB

[lookinforinfo]

The PCN also fails to comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4  Section 9[2][e]

(e)state that the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and invite the keeper—

(i)to pay the unpaid parking charges; 

So as they say further down their PCN that they cannot transfer the charge from the driver to the keeper if they do not comply, you as keeper are no longer liable to pay the PCN. Only the driver is liable which will be difficult as Courts do not accept that the driver and the keeper are the same person.