CEL PCN ANPR Claimform - NHS Lease Car - Tenerife Buildings, Station Road, South Gosforth, Newcastle, NE3 1QD ***Claim Discontinued***

[Kplanet]

Hi everyone

I have an NHS Lease car.

I received an email from the lease company on 03/03/2022 to state that a PCN had been processed.

I went onto the website and put the ref number in and it relates to an "offence" dated on 28/01/2022.

I finally received the notice on 18/03/2022

I am unsure if what I have read so far is applicable with it being a lease car. 

The terms of parking state that you have 20 mins to park.

I have attached signs below. 

I had my small child who decided she wanted to be fed.

i was 12 mins over. 

I am unsure whether to appeal 

Any help would be appreciated

 

signs.pdf

[dx100uk]

welcome aboard.

the 1st piece of information is never appeal.

the 2nd is to tell your bosses that the PCN is NOT a Penalty Charge Notice issued by a council- a FINE, but a speculative invoice issued by a private parking company on private land that they might or might not have a valid contract with the land owner to administer such crap.

they cannot dock wages etc etc.

have you any other paperwork?

if not get them to fwd it to you.

CEL should have sent them a notice to hirer, not a PCN or an NTK.

they should reply stating you had the vehicle, and then that 'resets' things in CEL sending you the PCN.

please fill this out

 

 

[brassnecked]

As soon as you answer the questions in the Sticky, the team can look at what best options are, but appealing is a waste of time,  they will assume you are the driver from correspondence with the Lease Co, so its imperative yo do as DX indicates and inform the Lease Co its NOT a valid PCN, its a speculative Invoice that may well not be enforeceble,.

[Kplanet]

Apologies it has taken so long. I am working nights working for the ambulance service!

Please answer the following questions.

1 Date of the infringement 28/01/2022

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 14/03/2022

3 Date received Email notification from lease company on 03/03/2022 received letter on 18/038/2022

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] NO

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? No 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] N

7 Who is the parking company? Civil Enforcement

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Tenerife Buildings, Station Road, Gosforth Newcastle NE3 1QD

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. POPLA

Many thanks 

 

2022-03-14 PCN incident date 2022-01-28.pdf

[dx100uk]

it looks like the hire co did fwd on your details as the incident date and PCN date are months apart.

i wonder who owns that patch of land and if CEL have planning permission for their signs and poles....i bet not!!

i would also seriously doubt, that whenever planning permission was first granted for those shops, that anything other than the std 2-3hrs free parking applied and that no-one has subsequently applied for, nor been granted, by the council permission to limit the parking to 20mins.

dx

[Kplanet]

I have found this by another member who received a ticket from the same place . Apparently there was no planning permission for the signs and I have searched Newcastle City Council website and can find no applications for that postcode. 

 

[FTMDave]

Good detective work.  Well done.

 

I see there are no photos of your car either.  They haven't got a leg to stand on.

 

What utter charlatans.  One of the stores is a take.-away pizza place.  I've had to wait loads of times over the years for 20 minutes at a take-away place at peak times.  The 20-minute limit is totally unfair, designed to entrap and as you and dx say was never given any PP. 

[lookinforinfo]

It would be a help if you could at least get a copy of the PCN sent to the NHS and post it here.. The NHS have outed you as the driver which means the NHS should not get any further correspondence from CEL.

As dx100uk said that it looks as if they have sent you the wrong kind of PCN but maybe not important as they cannot pursue the NHS as registered keeper anyway. 

However the Government are bringing out a new Code of Practice designed to rein in the crooked practices of certain parking companies. Although the parking crooks have been given time to incorporate certain features of the new Act into their paperwork , signs and contracts with land owners the Act expects that other changes that can be brought in now should be.

what sticks out with your PCN is the time you overstayed. The new Act stresses that the parking time is not the same time as depicted on their cameras.

It obviously takes several minutes to drive from the entrance to a parking place and park. equally obvious to everyone but the parking crooks is that it takes several minutes again to pull out of the parking place and drive to the exit.

if you have children or disabled passengers then further time may be necessary to allow for them to leave and enter the car.

On top of that there is a grace period which allows drivers to read and understand the signs so there is an allowance of 10 minutes for that.

Additionally the new Act does allow for emergencies such as illness, car breakdown and one would imagine feeding a young baby  to be taken into account.

that takes care of the overtime which is the basis for the ticket.

One would hope that CEL will realise in time that they have no chance of getting any money awarded to them in Court should it ever get that far.

just relax and ignore them content in the knowledge that you have the Law on your side.

It does not mean that until the penny drops with them  that they will continue to write demanding ever increasing amounts of money from you.

Those overcharges have been described by Government ministers as a rip off so no worries there either.

Eventually they may decide to give up though doubtful if they will let you know. 

[Kplanet]

Hello

Update to this post.

I have one letter stating costs please pay etc etc.

This arrived today dated the 5th May. 
Do I just wait it out?

Thanks in advance 

 

2022-05-05 CEL Passing to DCA.pdf

[brassnecked]

Another ThreatOgram with ifs buts maybe's

[FTMDave]

So it'll go up to £170, will it? 

 

Government Private Parking Code of Practice

 

Published 7 February 2022

 

9. Escalation of costs

 

The parking operator must not levy additional costs over and above the level of a parking charge or parking tariff as originally issued.

 

 

[dx100uk]

what have you been doing to help yourself and us in the last month?

been reading up on CEL threads here?

got the information LFI requested in their last post?

these things would be useful if you want members continued and correct assistance going forward. we need info not just for you to disappear please

dx

[brassnecked]

Yup all those additions over and above verboten.

[Kplanet]

Dx100uk. 
what have I been doing?  Working 50 plus hrs for the ambulance service to keep everyone safe as we are short staffed. Looking after 2 kids under 6. 

Trying to keep myself alive with caffeine and sandwiches whilst trying to keep my kids happy and myself sane. . 

Yes I have been reading but as I received a letter I thought I would update the thread. I apologies if I haven’t put a minute by minute itinerary on this post. 

If you don’t want to assist me personally that’s fine but I just asked for a small piece of advice

[lookinforinfo]

Kplanet having worked [many years ago ] similar hours to yours I can sympathise . But DX does the same now, day in and day out. He also covers many different sections of CAG to help people who are having various different problems-a bit like yourself in a way.

He came to CAG several months after me and in that time I have posted on here over 6000 posts. DX in a shorter time has posted over 155,000 posts!

It would be unusual if he had not upset some people posting that often but it is nothing personal its just that he doesn't have the time to be totally personable at the same time.

By the way we don't just help people who want a small piece of advice, we also give loads of help when needed.

For example that was a dreadful letter [dreadful in the sense of bordering on unlawful at least] and merits a complaint to Trading Standards.

If TS uphold the complaint CEL may decide to cancel your PCN. If you want, I can do it for you and you can then forward it to TS. [I am in the middle of a complaint to the SRA about one of their solicitors].

Just in case the complaint doesn't work DX was right that you will need to acquire at least a basic knowledge of PoFA and parking laws in case you end up in Court to give you an even better chance of beating them.

[FTMDave]

Open.

[Kplanet]

Which Court have you received the claim from ? MCOL Northampton N1 

Name of the Claimant : Civil Enforcement LTD

Claimants Solicitors: S Wilson

Date of issue – 24th April 2023

Date for AOS -  13th May (done)

Date to submit Defence - 4pm Friday 26th May

What is the claim for – 

1. Claim for money relating to the parking charge for breach of contract terms/conditions for parking in private car park managed by client. Drivers may only Park pursuant to TCs of use displayed in CP and agreed upon entry/parking.

2. The ANPR cameras or manual patrol monitor vehicles entering/accessing the CP and TC breaches.

Charges of GBP 170 claimed.

Violation date 28/01/2022

Payment due date 26/02/2022

Time in 1735 time out 1807

PCN

Vehicle Reg Mark

Car Park Tenerife buildings

Total due £170

The Claimant claims the sum of £186.69 for the unpaid parking charge inc £16.69 interest under s.69 of the CCA 1984

Rate 8.00% PA due from date to -21/04/23 

same rate to judgement or sooner payment at daily rate of - £0.04

Total debt and interest due £186.69

What is the value of the claim? £271.69

Amount Claimed £186.69

court fees  £35

legal rep fees £50

Total Amount  £271.69

Have you moved since the issuance of the PCN? No

 

claim form.pdf

[FTMDave]

Well done on doing AOS.

Did the they send you a Letter of Claim?

As well as all their other mistakes, I see the charlatans are claiming legal representative's costs - despite representing themselves!

[Kplanet]

FTMDave is that the same as a Letter before Action - Claim for Debt ?

 

if so they sent that on the 22/12/2022

[dx100uk]

next time please type out the FULL particulars not JUSt the 1st bit. 

 

if the LBA came with a reply pack wanting I&E then yes that is the same as a PAPLOC. - did they?

if they did WHY did you ignore it??

[lookinforinfo]

When you received your PCN did you also receive

• a copy of the PCN sent to the NHS;
• a copy of the lease that you have with the NHS;
• a copy of the document where you accept responsibility for parking charges incurred while keeping the car 
• a letter from the NHS to CEL confirming you were the person leasing the car on the day of the alleged breach.

 

The most likely is that they just sent you the PCN considering it should as such should only have given you 21 days to respond not 28 days.

Have seen a Notice to Hirer as opposed to a Notice to keeper.

The poor dears do not seem to have remembered that the car is on lease and a

You have more chance of being made a member of the order of the Garter than losing this case if they have not sent the above documents along with the PCN.

[Kplanet]

Dx100 the LBA arrived around the time my father had had a cardiac arrest.

I don’t think it was ignored but probably not given the diligence I should have .

When you say type out the full particulars I apologise .
 

lookedforinfo

no I was not sent a copy of the PCN sent to the NHS

just a notification email from the lease company.

I tried to obtain a copy but they don’t keep that info.

I still have a copy of the email. 

[dx100uk]

hey we all have issues to deal with..i just dont publicise mine...

but TBH the court nor CEL will give a monkeys...sorry.

 

you are where you are...

[FTMDave]

Go to  https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/393251-received-a-court-claim-from-a-private-parking-speculative-invoice-how-to-deal-with-it-hereupdated-dec-2021/

 

Scroll down to  Q2) How should I defend?

 

There is our generic defence.  File it a couple of days before the deadline.

 

Given the idiocy of the fleecers in claiming legal representative's costs although they are representing themselves, I suggest you change (6) into (7) and insert a new (6).

 

6.  The Claimant is abusing the court process by claiming £50 legal representative's costs even though they have nominated no legal representative and indeed are representing themselves.

[lookinforinfo]

I take it that all you received from CEL was just the PCN and the wrong one at that. That means that you cannot lose in Court. They have failed to comply with the requirements necessary for them to be able to pursue you as the keeper, the driver or the hirer.

Protection of Freedoms Schedule 4 Section 14  [1])......................................................

the creditor may recover those charges (so far as they remain unpaid) from the hirer.

(2)The conditions are that—

(a)the creditor has within the relevant period given the hirer a notice in accordance with sub-paragraph (5) (a “notice to hirer”), together with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph 13(2) and the notice to keeper;

(b)a period of 21 days beginning with the day on which the notice to hirer was given has elapsed; and

 as they haven't sent you all the other documents and given you 28 days rather than 21 days, their case is dead in the water.

They cannot claim against you because they have not kept to the conditions necessary for them to have a case against you.