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    • That explains it then. MET's fantasy is that it's a pay car park.  You're only let off paying if you are a Starbucks customer which you can't be when Starbucks is closed.  'Cos otherwise lots of people would abuse the car park facilities on the far edge of the Stansted Airport area in the middle of nowhere to ... admire the bushes?  Look at the cloudy sky? The important thing is that we have around 140 cases for this site, and MET have only tried court seven times.  Even then, they had no intention of getting as far as a hearing, they were attempting to intimidate the motorists into paying, when the Caggers defended the cases MET discontinued.
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    • Did your FiL leave a Will and if so who is the Executor? Strictly speaking banks could refuse to take instructions until Probate is granted but In practice I would expect the bank to take instructions to cancel the DD if the Executor presents the death certificate and a certified copy of the Will
    • Hi   Sorry I probably wasn't clear enough. He had lived in the flat until December 2022 with Dementia by this time it was unsafe for him to have capacity to live on his own and he had to move into a nursing home. We had left it too late to apply for power of attorney so approached a solicitor in March last year for Deputyship. We were still in the process of dealing with it by May 2024. He passed away a few weeks ago and the solicitor was contacted to halt the application and we will just pay the fees of what work he has done up until now. My wife was the named person on her dads bank account but we didn't have the ability to alter any direct debits hence the reasons for applying for Deputyship as we were having problems trying to stop some payments coming out of his account Eon being another difficult company. We kept his flat on from December 2022 - August 2023. it was at this point I contacted Sancutary housing to inform them he was no longer living in the flat, it had been cleared out and was ready for a new tenant and that he had Dementia and had moved into a nursing home December 2022 and explained the reasons why we kept it on. As the named person to speak on his behalf I asked them what proof they needed in order to give notice on the flat e.g proof of dementia and proof that he was living in a nursing home and anything else they wanted. The lady in the upstairs flat and some of the other residence in the street had asked about him and we had told them he had moved into a nursing home. The lady in the upstairs flat wanted his flat for medical reasons so asked us once we had given notice could be let her know and she'll ask them if she can have it. We explained the difficulties and it was left at that but I did tell her I would let her know once notice was given. I contacted the company by email a number of times and also telephone conversations and nobody followed it up and it wasn't till the end of February this year that the housing manager for the area wrote to our home address to ask about him that he had been to the flat a couple of times and nobody answered and he had asked some of the residence in the street and they hadn't seen him for sometime. There was an email address on the letter so I contacted him and copied in the last 2 emails I sent Sanctuary regarding me wanting to give notice on the flat for at least 9 months explaining that it went ignored as well as telephone calls. I also stated I wanted to have his rent payments returned from the date I wanted to give notice which was from August 2023 as the bank wouldn't let us stop the DD without POT or deputyship explaining we were in the process of Deputyship. He gave some excuse about not having POT to cancel on his behalf and spoke to someone in HR and said he would contact the nursing home to confirm he was there with Dementia and if it all checks out we can give notice on the flat which came to an end on the 22 March 2024. There was not mention of back payments for the rent already paid or the fact I had asked to give notice in August 2023. Despite someone living in the flat from 1st April they continue to take DD payments for the flat and have taken another 2 payments of £501. another concerning thing despite Eon not allowing us to cancel the DD to his account the lady upstairs informed Eon that she was moving into the flat February 2024 and Eon refunding the account to his bank and said in an email sorry you are leaving us and canceled his account. Something they wouldn't let us do but a stranger. She also changed her bank account to his address despite the fact notice hadn't been given on the flat yet. So we need to find out how much information Sanctuary actually had for her to tell her power company she was moving into the flat in February despite the housing manager only just getting in contact to find out where he was. So a complaint is going into Eon and Sanctuary and we are going to take advice and ask the bank to charge back the rent. My wife hasn't taken the death certificate to the bank yet to inform them of his passing.  
    • Yes, I believe the Starbucks was closed at the time the car was parked there 
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University of Leeds (Hospital) ANPR PCN -


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1 Date of the infringement 12th June 2023

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 19th June 2023

3 Date received Unknown

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] YES

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? YES although exit picture reg number cannot be seen in picture and the picture they have of the reg number underneath is the exact same as the one from the picture on entry.

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] Not yet but i'm about to, wanted to make sure I didn't mess it up though so checking with you guys first.

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up N/A

7 Who is the parking company? Leeds University

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Leeds University / Hospital grounds

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. IPC?

.......................

Hey all,

Posting on behalf of the recipient of a PCN as they have Alzheimer's/Dementia and are not able to deal with this.

PCN has just been found under a pile of stuff as recipient has adv Alzheimer's. Now I'm up against the 'appeals' clock.

At present no idea of driver but it it was def not the recipient of the PCN for obvious reasons also because they can't actually drive anymore.

I was going to draft a letter detailing all of the above but thought I better check with you guys first as you've been such a massive help in the past. (Thank you).

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

TIA.

 

 

 

2023-09-19 UOL PCN incident 12-6-23.pdf

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  • dx100uk changed the title to University of Leeds (Hospital) ANPR PCN -

You may well be better off writing to PALS rather than any appeal to the fleecers. (They're just money grabbers and won't be interested)

 

When you say the keeper can't drive any more, what exactly do you mean?

Have they officially been stopped from driving because of their medical condition?

Edited by Nicky Boy
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DO NOT appeal.

 

Simply get in touch with the Hospital and request they get rid of this invoice.

Nothing will happen anyway due to the registered keepers mental capacity, not that these fleecers will take any notice.

 

Edited by Bazooka Boo
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Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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looks like it.

WWW.LOCALPARKINGSECURITY.CO.UK

LPS are a leading Parking Control Service, providing Superior Car Park Management Solutions

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hey Nicky Boy,

Thanks for your reply. I'll give PALS a call. See if it helps.

They haven't been officially stopped from driving but they never renewed their licence as they didn't meet the criteria on the renewal form.

Hey Bazooka Boo,

Thanks will do that now see what they say.

So I'll not bother appealing then and just send the hospital an email and ask them to cancel the PCN.

Cheers all.

On the back of the letter it says to address the appeals to Leeds University?

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Who will pass it onto to LPS, who will ignore your appeal.

 

Hence why you never appeal private parking invoices as it is a waste of your time and energy.

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Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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Strange one this.

It appears that, as mentioned above, LPS are the PPC.

Yet paying the charge / appealing appears to have the University as the contact point?

 

Any thoughts on who to contact guys?

My thoughts would be still to try PALS...

https://www.leedsth.nhs.uk/patients-visitors/patient-and-visitor-information/patient-experience/patient-advice-and-liaison-service-pals-and-complaints/

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Either the hospital direct or PALS.

No-one should communicate with  LPS, they're insignificant.

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Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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LPS just install the system.

this hosp has always been their own PPC.

lots on them here but not of recent.

dx

 

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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Well, this is a first.  I've never seen a university or a hospital issue their own PCNs without employing a PPC.

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Shall I attempt an appeal to the email address on the back of the PCN? If it is the hospital they might be more ‘open’ to reconsider?

I can explain about the Alzheimer’s etc and hope to appeal to their better nature. 

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We always say never to appeal because the private parking companies never, ever, ever accept appeals - ever.

However, you have a point, this is not a normal PPC, it's the hospital itself.

A couple of things first.  The registered keeper should appeal, but obviously that is physically impossible.  Are you a relative of this person?

Also, what do you reckon happened?  The PCN is for not paying.  Did someone really just refuse to pay?  Or is it more likely they input the wrong registration number, or they tried to pay but the tech messed up?  Any idea?

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Thanks FTMDave

Yes this is unusual, hence why I was considering an appeal… long shot. 
 

I am a family member. I have been trying to figure out what has happened all day today and think I now understand the circumstances. 
 

The driver of the vehicle was transporting a disabled badge holder to a hospital appointment but could not find any disabled parking.

They then drove into the ‘Orange Zone’ Car Park, realised they didn’t have a permit and instead parked the car just outside of the orange zone area on double yellow lines and displayed the disabled badge.

The double yellow lines were inside the ANPR area but before/outside of any signage detailing restrictions and not in the car park.

As such they thought the usual double yellow lines parking for disabled badge holders was valid. 
 

I hope that made sense 🤦🏽‍♀️

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No, they're not driving at all, is how I Read it?

I'm guessing a family member drove them to the hospital for an appointment and got this invoice.

 

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Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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OK, well I would suggest going against the well-established policy of the site and actually appealing in this instance, given you'll be contacting the organ grinder rather than some horrible PPC.

However, the default position of whoever reads your mail will no doubt be "reject appeal" so also e-mail PALS (Nicky Boy's link in post 9 above) and also the CEO  [email protected]  https://nhsproviders.org/about-us/working-for-us/our-team/julian-hartley  That way you have a three-pronged attack.

Explain that the registered keeper has advanced Alzheimer's and that you are a family member dealing with this person's affairs.  If you have any proof of the condition or can name who made the diagnosis, all the better so they don't think it's a likely story.

Explain that you have been racking your brains trying to work out why the charge was issued and your best guess is ... what you explained above.

Emphasise that although a mistake may have been made (be sure to use the word "may", don't admit it!) that no-one deprived the hospital of income for the car park as the car was parked outside the car park.

Request that the charge be cancelled.

Do not at any point name the driver because the hospital would love to "get rid" of the person with Alzheimer's from the equation and have someone else instead to harass who might cough up.

Send versions to PALS and the CEO this evening but please wait until tomorrow morning for the appeal, I am suggesting something atypical and I would like to give the other regulars, who have more experience than me, a chance to comment.

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Honeybee13, they’re not driving at all. They are driven by someone else. Thanks for clarifying Bazooka Boo. 
 

Thanks FTMDave. Will try the three pronged approach and will wait until the morning to send the appeal. 
 

Thanks again everyone for all your help. You’re amazing. I don’t know why I was stressing. 

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Agree with Dave's suggested course of action,  although I'm not as pessimistic over the outcome. Another recent thread brought up a government policy about this very scenario, making it clear that leniency should be implemented. 

 

Chimi,

Might be an idea to quote the relevant section from the government guidance in your letter...

 

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Brilliant Nicky Boy, thank you so much. I’ll get to it. 

 

Posting for reference for anyone that may need ideas... sent similar to PALS and appeals.

----
I write regarding the above PCN. The Registered Keeper (xxxx) of the vehicle has advanced Alzheimer's and Vascular Dementia (diagnosed at Dewsbury and District Hospital in November 2020 and currently under the memory clinic and taking Memantine as medication) and is in no position to respond so I am dealing with this on their behalf. The letter itself was received, opened and then left forgotten, I'm sure I don't need to explain why, hence the delay in response as I have only just stumbled across it by chance.
 
xxxx is unable to drive and was not the driver of the vehicle in this instance. I have done my best to piece together what may have happened and this is what I have loosely established.
 
The driver of the vehicle was transporting a disabled badge holder to their hospital appointment and in the absence of any actual disabled parking facilities by the Jubilee Wing sought parking elsewhere. The driver drove to the 'Orange Zone' car park and after reading the sign in the car park saw that they could not park there without an orange zone permit and so left the car park immediately. The driver then parked the car on double yellow lines on the road outside the car park and before all the signage for the orange zone but still within the ANPR monitored area. 
 
Since the driver was not parked in the orange zone or in the car park they assumed usual double yellow lines parking rules applied for disabled badge holders and left the car parked there displaying the blue badge for the duration of the appointment in Jubilee Wing.
 
I would like to point out at this stage that although a mistake MAY have been made, the hospital was not deprived of any income for the car park as the car was parked outside of the car park itself.
 
May I also bring your attention to the recent NHS Car Parking Guidance 2022 for NHS Trusts and NHS Foundation Trusts wherein it states in the Mandatory Elements section:
 
'Free car parking for those with greatest need

The current NHS Standard Contract [Service Condition 17.10] requires that NHS trusts and NHS foundation trusts:

  • must comply, where applicable, with NHS car parking guidance
  • in particular, must ensure that any car parking facilities at the provider’s premises for service users, visitors and staff are available free of charge to those groups and at those times identified in, and otherwise in accordance with, that guidance

The definitions of these groups are as follows.

Disabled people

A disabled person is a holder of a valid Blue Badge attending hospital as a patient or visitor or is a disabled person employed by the hospital trust.

Disabled patients and visitors receive free parking for the duration of their attendance at, or visit to, the hospital.'

There is an increasing demand for disabled parking facilities at hospitals and Jubilee Wing is extremely lacking in its parking facilities for disabled users. In fact the area outside is extremely unkind for wheelchair users who have to park a considerable distance away from the entrance because of the lack of parking in the area.

Although I understand the need to charge for parking and in fact issuing PCN's for misuse of facilities I do hope you can see that on this occasion the PCN is unwarranted and politely request that it be cancelled.

Lets hope it does the trick.

Thanks again for your help!

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I'd be contacting the local press if you get nowhere with that letter. They'll be very interested in this story.

 

On 17/07/2023 at 16:07, FTMDave said:

Well, this is a first.  I've never seen a university or a hospital issue their own PCNs without employing a PPC.

My NHS Trust does this as well. I have advised many colleagues over the years how to deal with them.

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IPC membership list contains about 4 or 5 Universities...

Edited by Nicky Boy
ytpo Duh!
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