Your parking ticket may be unlawful

[Fletch]

Thanks. Not good at this posting business though. Thought I might copy letter to Trading Standards and OFT. Waddyafink?

[beetlejuice]

I think you should send it to a smany people as you can including that bloke off the telly! Whasisname?? "Watch Dog"??

 

BJ

[JonCris]

Also send a copy to the ICO They have been enquiring into the release of info to these sorts of cowboys.

 

The DVLA have told the ICO that threre are safeguards in place

[Zamzara]

The number of V888/3’s submitted by Athena in 2006/7.

The number of V888/3’s authorised.

 

I doubt they will supply this (ironically), as it is personal data. Instead, consider asking how many requests in total by anybody, and how many granted.

[Fletch]

The following is a copy of the letter sent to Athena on Thursday, 22 March 2007. I have had no response. Can I safely assume that the matter has been dropped since they gave me till 20/3/07 to cough up or face Court?

 

 

Athena ANPR Ltd

PO Box 420

Hounslow

TW3 9EL

 

Dear Sir or Madam:

 

I am the registered Keeper of a silver Renault Scenic XXX XXX. I am a resident of XXXXXXXX. I am in receipt of communication from your company regarding a parking charge in respect of an alleged infringement on 20th February 2007.

 

Unfortunately, you have not supplied me with sufficient detail regarding the alleged infringement. Please accept this letter as notification of intention to appeal.

 

Please provide me with a copy of the regulations pertaining to the car park.

 

Can you tell me if your company has signed up to the DVLA’s Voluntary Code of Practice for Private Car Parking Enforcement? I understand your firm is obliged to sign up to receive registration information. Specifically, point 3.2 of the code states:

“Notices giving full details of the parking contravention and the proposed course of action to be taken by the enforcer should be placed in a prominent position on the ‘offending’ vehicle without causing it damage. Vehicle keepers should be made aware that their name and address will be requested from the DVLA”.

 

I can confirm that I was not issued with any parking ticket on the day of the alleged infringement It appears that your evidence of my stay appears to be wholly based on CCTV evidence which I dispute.

 

Can you please supply me with a copy of the V888/3 form you sent to DVLA in respect of my vehicle.

 

 

I will therefore be writing to DVLA to ascertain whether they were under the mistaken belief that you had complied with their guidelines before seeking to elicit registration information.

 

Can you tell me if you are a Member of the British Parking Association?

 

In addition, I am now in receipt of a pro-forma N1 claim form for an unspecified County Court. The document bares no seal and purports to represent a claim for “Unpaid Parking Notice 30524.” In addition to the disputed parking fee there is reference to court fees and solicitors costs. The document is unsigned.

 

This is not a valid court document and I regard this as an abuse and an attempt to extract monies by deception.

 

I do not believe your threat is one that can be sustained in a court of law. If you still intend to pursue your claim for parking fees in breach of the DVLA Code then please supply me with the name and address of your solicitor and the County Court at which you intend to take out the action. Please provide me with sufficient time in which to lodge a counter claim.

 

Sincerely,

Fletch

[dimple]

Fetch,

 

that is a brilliant piece of investigation and responding letter .. I was "caught" at the same car park two days earlier (Chinese New Year's day .. Sunday 18th February at 10PM after a CNY dinner and five hours after the Lidl store had closed)

Athena do not respond to emails, you can call them on premium rate phone lines and they have just sent me one of their threatening pseudo legal forms.

I will use your letter as a template for my next response to them.

Many thanks and all the best

dimple

[Pliny the Penuriosus]

The following is a copy of the letter sent to Athena on Thursday, 22 March 2007. I have had no response. Can I safely assume that the matter has been dropped since they gave me till 20/3/07 to cough up or face Court?

 

 

Athena ANPR Ltd

PO Box 420

Hounslow

TW3 9EL

 

Dear Sir or Madam:

 

I am the registered Keeper of a silver Renault Scenic XXX XXX. I am a resident of XXXXXXXX. I am in receipt of communication from your company regarding a parking charge in respect of an alleged infringement on 20th February 2007 which is repudiated

 

You have failed to supply me with any evidence of the alleged infringement.

 

You don't need to details re the car park

It is understood firms such as yours are obliged to sign up to the DVLA's voluntary code of practice in order to receive any form of personel data. Please confirm your compliance with this requirement

 

In addition I would remind you that 3.2 of the code states:

“Notices giving full details of the parking contravention and the proposed course of action to be taken by the enforcer should be placed in a prominent position on the ‘offending’ vehicle without causing it damage. You will be aware that in contravention of this rule you did not comply.

You will also be aware that Vehicle keepers should be made aware that their name and address will be requested from the DVLA” failing which you have no authority or consent to process a keepers data and to do so is a contravention the DPA 1998

 

As I will be making further enquiries of the DVLA I require you to supply me with a true completed copy of the V888/3 form you used to request my data

 

In addition, you supplied an unsigned, uncertified N1 claim form for an unspecified County Court and which purports to represent a claim for “Unpaid Parking Notice 30524.” In addition to the disputed parking fee there is reference to court fees and solicitors costs.

This is not a valid court document and is a clear breach of the OFT guidelines which may cause them to consider whether or not a company acting in this way is fit to hold a licence. Therefore I regard your action in this respect as very serious and an attempt to demand money with menaces.

I am also of the view that your behaviour may constitute an offence under the Fraud Act 2006 which explicitiy refers to the production of a misleading document intended to extract monies or cause a loss to the another.

Should you continue to pursue your activities against me either by telephone' correspondence or personaly I shall have no option but to report your company to the appropriate authorities

 

Yours faithfully

 

Fletch

 

Hope you don't mind made a couple of changes

[carriesue]

I received a parking ticket today from wandsworth council. It contains the wording "date of notice:" on both the main body and the tear off part, but there is no reference to "date of issue".

Are these one and the same thing, or is "date of issue" a requirement on a ticket?

 

Alex.

I had the same wording on my ticket from Haringey. Do you know how this can be challenged when writing to appeal? Thanks

[kopite71]

No. They are the same. Sorry.

[carriesue]

Can anyone help with the rules and regs of delivering/loading and unloading' in a restricted street during prescribed hours', PN Code 01.

My colleagues and I were delivering materials for refurbishment to our clients. I received 3 fines. One for £100, I received notification by post - I was not issued with a ticket. An empty parking fine envelope was left on my windscreen, when i telephoned Haringey I was informed that I had received a further fine. The timescale of the tickets issued on each, is one minute! I thought allowances were made when loading/unloading heavy items. Any help greatly appreciated. By the way I'm a newbie.

[Guest xipetotec46]

Hi carriesue

More info required on the 3 PCN's get pics on here of one of them both sides.. use ImageShack® - Hosting then copy and paste the URL here so we can take a look. you can also post your thread on PePiPoo: Helping the motorist to get justice many more experienced folk on there who can sort this prob out for you.. but they will still want to see pics and lots more info also.

[carriesue]

Many thanks, here are the images

 

C

 

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/536/scan0001qs7.jpg

http://img457.imageshack.us/img457/4568/scanqk1.jpg

[Guest xipetotec46]

There are no pics at that URL you have to upload your pics into your own file and then post the URL from your own file, usually it's No1 images for posting on forums.

[carriesue]

sorry im not very good with computers. Do you mean upload it into a file on my computer and then upload onto imageshack?

 

Thanks

 

C

[ScarletPimpernel]

I can see the images by clicking on the links - there doesn't seem anything wrong with them.

[dw190]

I can see them perfectly.

 

Its just a pity that the wording appears to perfect as well.

[Guest xipetotec46]

Yes the pics are there now and as dw190 states the wording appears fully compliant, you could try the next step and ask for a copy of the Traffic Regulation Order TRO to see if it it valid, twice I have asked for a copy of the TRO and twice they were invalid so you have nothing to lose in asking for a copy from the parking shop at Haringhey and you could always try contesting the empty parking envelope and unless it was a PCN for a contravention via a camera it is invalid as it has to be attached to the windscreen or handed to the driver of the vehicle.

[jezzyjet]

hi all ive got a ticket and on the top it says "date of this notice" does that qualify for uninforcable? many thanks jezzy

[Guest xipetotec46]

You will have to puts pics of the PCN on here...BOTH SIDES as the info you gave is not adequate to make a proper assessment of a PCN. is it a PCN or is it a private Ticket!!!

[jezzyjet]

hi there its a pcn i cant do pics as my pc s not working very well on the rear all references are refured to as a penalty charge notice ,thanks for your help jezzy

[demon_x_slash]

If you can't scan it you'll need to type out both sides word for word EXACTLY as it's shown on the ticket. People can't look for contraventions if they can't see what they're meant to be looking at

[patdavies]

I doubt they will supply this (ironically), as it is personal data. Instead, consider asking how many requests in total by anybody, and how many granted.

 

Why is this personal data? I assume that Athena is a company and as such, the DPA does not apply to data held on them.

[Fletch]

Re

Athena ANPR Ltd

PO Box 420

Hounslow

TW3 9EL

 

 

 

Nothing received from Athena. No acknowledgement as yet from DVLA.

[Fletch]

Release of Information By DVLA

 

You may recall I queried a demand for monies as a result of my vehicle being seen in the Lidl Car Park at Croydon. The parking there is 'managed' by ANPR Athena. They subsequently obtained details from DVLA under Reg 27 of the Road Vehicles (Registration & Licensing) Regulations 2002. Unwarranted demands for monies ensued. These now appear to have been dropped. However, I had an interesting response from DVLA and an even more interesting phone call with a member of that Agency. A copy of the letter is shown below:

 

 

_________________________________________________________________

 

Dear Sir,

 

Vehicle Registration Mark: XXXXXXX

 

Our Ref: XXXXXXX

Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency Swansea

SA99lAJ

Date: 18 April 2007

 

Thank you for your letter of 3rd April 2007 about the release of information from the DVLA vehicle records. As Manager of Fee Paying Enquiries section it has been passed to me for reply. I am sorry for the delay in responding to you, however unfortunately your correspondence was not received in Fee Paying Enquiries until a few days ago. I have also needed to consult our Vehicle Policy Group for advice regarding some of your queries.

 

DVLA takes very seriously its duty under the Data Protection Act to protect the privacy of the motorists whose details it holds for the purposes of registering and licensing vehicles, and to comply with the Act's guiding principles. However, the Act exempts from its non-disclosure provisions the release of personal data where the law allows it and DVLA is not in a position to refuse those who have a legitimate right to receive information.

 

Regulation 27 of the Road Vehicles (Registration and Licensing) Regulations 2002 requires DVLA to release information from the vehicle register to the police, to local authorities for purposes associated with the investigation of an offence or decriminalised parking contravention, and to anyone who can demonstrate 'reasonable cause' to have it. 'Reasonable cause' is not defined in legislation and requests are considered on their merits.

 

Requests from private car parking enforcement companies are considered to meet the 'reasonable cause' criteria. Unauthorised parking on private land is a problem many landowners experience and providing them with information is necessary to allow them to enforce their rights to their property. Otherwise they could be forced to wheelclamp or seize 'offending' vehicles.

 

 

The private car parking enforcement companies are not regulated and even if they were, it would fall outside the remit of DVLA. Despite this, the Agency introduced the Code of Practice for Private Car Park Enforcement in 2002. The Code was a voluntary arrangement designed to encourage best practice and fairness in ticketing and signage arrangements. The Agency did not have any statutory authority to enforce its terms or make it mandatory. Information is released on the basis that 'reasonable cause' had been demonstrated.

 

New measures for all those making manual enquiries were introduced from 1 November 2006. These new measures should ensure that the release of information from the Agency's register is undertaken in a way that protects keepers from the misuse of their data but ensures that those who do have 'reasonable cause' receive the data they need. These new measures have negated the need for the Voluntary Code of Practice.

 

Whilst seeking to ensure that vehicle keeper data is released only in appropriate circumstances, it is not a matter for the Agency to decide on the merits of individual cases. Representation about the circumstances relating to an incident or the wording on a penalty charge notice should be made directly to the company.

 

Vehicle keepers are advised that their details may be released in a number of lawful circumstances on the front of the V5C and in more detail in the INS 160 leaflet that accompanies each V5C. Full details on the release of information, what constitutes 'reasonable cause', the complaints procedure and the new process for making enquiries are available at http://www.direct.gov.uk/MotoringIOwning A Vehiclel Advice On Keeping A vehicle.

 

The Agency does not profit from the release of vehicle keeper details to third parties. A fee of £2.50 is charged to cover the administration costs associated with supplying such information, which means the applicant, and not the taxpayer, covers the costs of processing the requests. Requests can be submitted manually on the appropriate form or via a secure electronic link (EDI).

 

The revenue recovered from the release of information where a fee is chargeable cannot be broken down for enquiries made by private car parking enforcement companies.

 

The table below sets out the total revenue the Agency recovered from all fee paying enquiries for the financial years 2005 - 2007. These include requests from insurance and finance companies, private car park companies, members of the public and solicitors, etc for keeper details at a date of event. Current keepers requesting full vehicle histories and mileage companies for investigation into vehicle 'clocking' pay £5.00 per enquiry as the Agency has to provide further documentation.

 

Year Manual Date of Event Enquiries EDI Enquiries Total Income

2005/2006 £ 1,547,781 £ 2,027,253 3,575,034

2006/2007 1,420,572 2,295,991 3,716,563

 

The table below sets out the total number of enquiries received in the Agency from all fee paying enquiries. These include requests as above.

 

Year Manual Date of Event Enquiries ED I Enquiries Total Enquiries

2005/2006 454,425 809,859 1,264,284

2006/2007 407,365 936,538 1,343,903

 

 

Please find enclosed a copy of the enquiry received on your vehicle from Athena ANPR Ltd dated 7th February 2007 and stating a date of event of 6th February 2007. I can confirm that Athena submitted a business resume and copy of agreement with landowner, as required by the new procedures.

 

I hope this explains the Agency's position and is of assistance to you.

Yours sincerely

XXXXXXXXXX

Fee Paying Enquiries Vehicle Customer Services

 

_________________________________________________________________

The problem is that the enquiry received from Athena incorrectly states the make and colour of my vehicle, yet the details were still passed over. The document states:

 

"Please provide a full explanation why you want the information and how it will be used."

 

KEEPER DETAILS REQUIRED TO ISSUE PCN/REMINDERS AS KEEPER'S (SIC)VIOLATED CAR PARK RESTRICTIONS"

 

There are no legally enforceable car park restrictions at this car park. If the company wishes to pursue an action for tresspass or breach of contract identifying the keeper of the vehicle will not advance their cause. They need to prove who was driving the vehicle at the time! The fact that they have provided the wrong make and colour of the vehicle and that this has not been picked up by DVLA shows how slack the procedures are. Clearly the claim that "Information is released (only)on the basis that 'reasonable cause' had been demonstrated" is not supportable.

 

I had a conversation with the author of this letter at 11.00hrs on 20th April 2007. She expressed private disquiet that information could be released under such circumstances but stated that she was bound to comply.She stated that the information contained on the request form is not cross-referenced to verify accuracy. Hence no-one picked up that my vehicle is not a white Nissan but a silver Renault!

 

In the letter she states that:

"Vehicle keeper data is released only in appropriate circumstances, it is not a matter for the Agency to decide on the merits of individual cases."

 

How, without verifying the accuracy of the information that they have been presented, can DVLA ensure the data is released only in appropriate circumstances? This is clearly a farce and a money-making exercise (as the figures demonstrate). It merely serves as fuel to the private Cowboy parking enforcers!

[Fletch]

By the way- if you go to http://www.direct.gov.uk/MotoringIOwning it comes up with an error page so you can't obtain details of how to complain!!!!!!!

 

DOn't you just love "Open Goverment?" "Gushing Incompetence" more like!