Jump to content



Your parking ticket may be unlawful


Please note that this topic has not had any new posts for the last 3732 days.

If you are trying to post a different story then you should start your own new thread. Posting on this thread is likely to mean that you won't get the help and advice that you need.

If you are trying to post information which is relevant to the story in this thread then please flag it up to the site team and they will allow you to post.

Thank you

Recommended Posts

An interesting issue is emerging within the Decriminalised Parking Enforcement system. This is the part of the Road Traffic Act 1991 which enables local councils to operate thier own parking regime.

 

If you have been issued with a parking ticket and still have the original PCN (the ticket that gets attached to your windscreen), check the following points:

 

1. At the top of the ticket there must be the words "Date Of Issue", simply date or date of offence is not acceptable

 

2. The ticket must not refer to an "offence", the correct term is "contravention"

 

Either of these points render the PCN unenforceable according to Section 66(3) of the RTA1991.

 

This originally came to light in May 2005 when NPAS ruled against Bury Council on the above points (NPAS are the independant parking adjudicators even though they are solely funded by 60p from each PCN - but thats another story)

 

Despite NPAS sending out an urgent memo to all local authorities regarding this some councils have STILL not changed the wording, leaving themselves open to potentially having to refund millions.

 

I am currently pursuing Blackpool Council for two tickets based on the above, i'll keep you posted.

 

Take a look at the following for further info, this guy is catching them out one after another !

 

http://neilherron.blogspot.com/

 

A good press story about it

 

http://www.peterboroughtoday.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=845&ArticleID=1444414

  • Haha 2
  • Confused 3

First Direct, £4031 Recovered

Halifax, £953 Recovered

MBNA Credit Card, £120 Recovered

American Express, £160 Recovered

Coming Soon......

Blackpool Council, £190 in unlawful parking tickets

Carstoppers. £50 from the cowboy clampers

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 955
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Many thanks for this, we have spoken privately as you know and it's of particular interest to me as I am based in Blackpool.

 

I often wonder about the legality of most of the double yellow lines themselves, they were devised to prevent people blocking roads and causing a hazard or obstruction. So what harm is somebody doing parking in a quiet cul-de-sac late at night? I saw such a car being ticketed at 9pm+ tonight for just such an offence.

 

Can councils just put parking restrictions anywhere? I could see no possible reason for these and those in dozens if not hundreds of other places. There are even unused lay-byes that serve no particular purpose that are being painted up. Why? Just another way to raise revenue of course.

 

The penalties are unfair, the way they are applied is unfair and the way they are pursued is unfair. But to my mind what is most unfair is that many of the double yellow lines should not be there in the first place, and in Blackpool they seem to be mostly devised to force people into the official car parks - where of course they have to pay anyway.

 

There is no way out for people such as myself though; I'm a self employed electrician and need to park near to premises where it's just impossible to legally park within a mile radius. You can buy a permit but it only lasts for a week and costs £15 anyway - but if you are working at a different address each day you need a different permit for each address, each costing £15 and even then you need a van to qualify - I use an estate car as do many companies large and small.

 

I'ts just ridiculous. When Blackpool Coucil took over parking control from the police they immediately increased the number of wardens from 13 to 78 and embarked upon a plan of painting d/y lines on every bit of spare road they could find. They went a step further around the town centre and installed parking meters - another stealth tax. Don't we pay enough?

I only mouth my opinion, please look elsewhere for sensible advice! :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have just sent the following letter into Westminster council:

 

24.04.06

Dear Sir/Madam:

I write in reference to PCN: XXXXXXX issued to registration XXXXXXX

I ask you to strike this PCN out on the following grounds.

  • I was in the Post Office collecting a parcel therefore I was loading my vehicle. Parcel number was XXXXXXXX
  • The PCN had not been issued by the time I returned to the vehicle, the warden XXXXXX printed the ticket as I entered the car, after I had clearly told him I was the owner and had returned to the vehicle. The photographic evidence taken by the warden shows I was in the car at the time.
  • I question the validity of the PCN as the PCN in question does not have the date of issue clearly marked as per the instructions of Section 66 (3) Road Traffic Act 1991 and does not adhere to the standards demonstrated clearly by the DoT model ticket. I refer you to Macarthur v. Bury Metropolitan Borough Council and Aldridge v. Westminster City Council.
  • I question the validity of the PCN as the PCN in question does not state the time that the vehicle was first seen and does not adhere to the standards demonstrated clearly by the DoT model ticket. I refer you to Macarthur v. Bury Metropolitan Borough Council and Al’s bar and Restaurant Ltd v. London Borough of Wandsworth.
  • I question the validity of the PCN as the PCN in question states “If you do not pay within 14 days the full charge must be paid within 28 days” contained in the information headed “Payment” on the back of the PCN. I find this confusing as it implies payment of the penalty is required from the driver of the vehicle whereas in fact liability rests with the owner of the vehicle. This conflicts with Section 66 (2) Road Traffic Act 1991 and does not adhere to the standards demonstrated clearly by the DoT model ticket.

Further to striking out the PCN, I ask that you take actions to provide further training for warden XXXXXX and make a note of his surly, ignorant attitude towards myself, a member of the public, when I remonstrated with him about his illegal issuing of the aforementioned PCN. Grunting and walking away is not what I construe as a very public facing attitude and I shall be writing to the Transport Secretary and my Member for Parliament pointing out the failings of a Westminster City Council member of staff in this incident.

If anyones interested, have a look at this site

http://www.lmag.org.uk/

 

It seems that quite a few London boroughs are issuing illegal parking tickets. Fight the ticket, the more personal evidence you give along with the validity claims, the more chance they'll rip it up.

 

If anyones interested, you have a 20 minute loading/unloading grace period in most bays and single yellow lines.

 

http://www.parking-appeals.gov.uk/RegAndLeg/parkingRegu.asp

  • Haha 1
  • Confused 1

If the name of the claim is blue and underlined, click it to see how I did it.

  • Halifax - 1st Request for £3748.80 sent 10/06 Settled in full and 5% donated


  • Goldfish - Unable to comment further, have a read


  • Lloyds - Data Protection Act sent 19/04 1st estimated request for £1500 sent15/08 LBA sent 08/09


  • Carphone Warehouse - Data Protection Act sent 19/04 Chased 04/07 ICO complaint 18/07


  • First National - 1st Request for £280 sent 05/05 Settled in full and 5% donated


  • Yes car credit - LBA sent 19/07 Court Action launched 26/09


  • HFC Bank - 1st Request for £100 sent 06/06 Settled in full and 5% donated


Like what I said? Hit the scales on the top right of my post. Cheers

 

Disclaimer - By giving advice, I am not putting myself across as a legal expert. Always seek professional advice.

Help the site, donate 5%, I have.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm actually quite stunned by this from the last link, especially in relation to council car parks:

 

"Under the decriminalised scheme brought in by the Road Traffic Act 1991, when a vehicle is, for example, parked on a yellow line during controlled hours, it is said to be parked ‘in contravention of the regulations’. Thus there are no offences, merely contraventions...............In some car parks, contraventions of the regulations are enforced by Parking Attendants issuing Penalty Charge Notices. These can be challenged in same way as if the Penalty Charge Notice had been issued to a vehicle parked in the street"

 

What has stunned me the most is the fact that this hasn't come from a "motorists against unfair fines" type site or whatever, but an OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT WEBSITE!

 

Absolutely fantastic stuff, have a rating. Priceless.

I only mouth my opinion, please look elsewhere for sensible advice! :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Be careful though, that only counts to Council run carparks, I don't think Private car parks would count. You would have to challenge the validity of the penalty in the same way as your doing for the banks action.

If the name of the claim is blue and underlined, click it to see how I did it.

  • Halifax - 1st Request for £3748.80 sent 10/06 Settled in full and 5% donated


  • Goldfish - Unable to comment further, have a read


  • Lloyds - Data Protection Act sent 19/04 1st estimated request for £1500 sent15/08 LBA sent 08/09


  • Carphone Warehouse - Data Protection Act sent 19/04 Chased 04/07 ICO complaint 18/07


  • First National - 1st Request for £280 sent 05/05 Settled in full and 5% donated


  • Yes car credit - LBA sent 19/07 Court Action launched 26/09


  • HFC Bank - 1st Request for £100 sent 06/06 Settled in full and 5% donated


Like what I said? Hit the scales on the top right of my post. Cheers

 

Disclaimer - By giving advice, I am not putting myself across as a legal expert. Always seek professional advice.

Help the site, donate 5%, I have.

Link to post
Share on other sites

One thing that gets me - if they are going to pursue you, surely they should be pursuing you for the unpaid parking FEE, not any subsequent fine that they have decided to impose upon you.

 

Seems strange to me that they can fine you without ever actually asking you to pay the unpaid parking charge.

I only mouth my opinion, please look elsewhere for sensible advice! :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

They actually can't fine you.

 

It's a legal technicality about repealing the bill of rights.

 

Click here for a fuller explanation.

 

Theres a guy in Worcester fighting a parking ticket using this defence, search for Robin Decrittenden v Worcester City Council. Last I heard, he won the appeal at PATAS on a technicality, but was appealing the appeal at the High Hourt to get a judicial review that all PCN's are illegal.

 

Which means new legislature and all previous PCN's being paid back. :)

  • Confused 2

If the name of the claim is blue and underlined, click it to see how I did it.

  • Halifax - 1st Request for £3748.80 sent 10/06 Settled in full and 5% donated


  • Goldfish - Unable to comment further, have a read


  • Lloyds - Data Protection Act sent 19/04 1st estimated request for £1500 sent15/08 LBA sent 08/09


  • Carphone Warehouse - Data Protection Act sent 19/04 Chased 04/07 ICO complaint 18/07


  • First National - 1st Request for £280 sent 05/05 Settled in full and 5% donated


  • Yes car credit - LBA sent 19/07 Court Action launched 26/09


  • HFC Bank - 1st Request for £100 sent 06/06 Settled in full and 5% donated


Like what I said? Hit the scales on the top right of my post. Cheers

 

Disclaimer - By giving advice, I am not putting myself across as a legal expert. Always seek professional advice.

Help the site, donate 5%, I have.

Link to post
Share on other sites
They actually can't fine you.

 

Yes I know, that's why I'm not paying, but what I'm getting at is that if they ARE going to chase you through the courts at all it should be for the unpaid parking FEE, not the "fine". As far as I am concerned, in the case of one of my parking tickets, they have fined me for something I haven't even had a bill for!

I only mouth my opinion, please look elsewhere for sensible advice! :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, they're pirates. Power to the people :D

If the name of the claim is blue and underlined, click it to see how I did it.

  • Halifax - 1st Request for £3748.80 sent 10/06 Settled in full and 5% donated


  • Goldfish - Unable to comment further, have a read


  • Lloyds - Data Protection Act sent 19/04 1st estimated request for £1500 sent15/08 LBA sent 08/09


  • Carphone Warehouse - Data Protection Act sent 19/04 Chased 04/07 ICO complaint 18/07


  • First National - 1st Request for £280 sent 05/05 Settled in full and 5% donated


  • Yes car credit - LBA sent 19/07 Court Action launched 26/09


  • HFC Bank - 1st Request for £100 sent 06/06 Settled in full and 5% donated


Like what I said? Hit the scales on the top right of my post. Cheers

 

Disclaimer - By giving advice, I am not putting myself across as a legal expert. Always seek professional advice.

Help the site, donate 5%, I have.

Link to post
Share on other sites
hiy peeps

any comments about "residential" parkin fines ? lol i keep gettin them for parkink outside my own effin front door.huh lol

 

If you keep getting them and you think they are wrongly issued this guy will find their errors. He charges though. £7.99

http://www.appealnow.com/

PUTTING IT IN WRITING & KEEPING COPIES IS A MUST FOR SUCCESS

Link to post
Share on other sites
hiy peeps

any comments about "residential" parkin fines ? lol i keep gettin them for parkink outside my own effin front door.huh lol

 

If you mean it's a private company and not the council or it's agents penalising you, then you can pursue the penalty payment back in the same way we're pursuing the bank charges.

If the name of the claim is blue and underlined, click it to see how I did it.

  • Halifax - 1st Request for £3748.80 sent 10/06 Settled in full and 5% donated


  • Goldfish - Unable to comment further, have a read


  • Lloyds - Data Protection Act sent 19/04 1st estimated request for £1500 sent15/08 LBA sent 08/09


  • Carphone Warehouse - Data Protection Act sent 19/04 Chased 04/07 ICO complaint 18/07


  • First National - 1st Request for £280 sent 05/05 Settled in full and 5% donated


  • Yes car credit - LBA sent 19/07 Court Action launched 26/09


  • HFC Bank - 1st Request for £100 sent 06/06 Settled in full and 5% donated


Like what I said? Hit the scales on the top right of my post. Cheers

 

Disclaimer - By giving advice, I am not putting myself across as a legal expert. Always seek professional advice.

Help the site, donate 5%, I have.

Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't know how to include a link

 

On this site it's particularly simple, just cut and paste the site address (URL), it automatically converts into a link when you post your reply

I only mouth my opinion, please look elsewhere for sensible advice! :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe so,

 

I am in the process of doing this now, i've sent a preliminary letter.

 

I will of course keep everyone updated of the outcome

First Direct, £4031 Recovered

Halifax, £953 Recovered

MBNA Credit Card, £120 Recovered

American Express, £160 Recovered

Coming Soon......

Blackpool Council, £190 in unlawful parking tickets

Carstoppers. £50 from the cowboy clampers

Link to post
Share on other sites

I will post letter when I'm back at work.

 

In meantime I highly recommend you contact Neil Herron at the following address

 

metricmartyrs@btconnect.com

 

He is somewhat of an expert on this and is very helpful, he's been helping with mine. He'll tell you what to put in your letter etc as Westminister (London) might be different. I think each local authoity has its own varied traffic orders.

First Direct, £4031 Recovered

Halifax, £953 Recovered

MBNA Credit Card, £120 Recovered

American Express, £160 Recovered

Coming Soon......

Blackpool Council, £190 in unlawful parking tickets

Carstoppers. £50 from the cowboy clampers

Link to post
Share on other sites

Information:

 

I got another parking ticket today (for parking outside my front door, resident's parking area). My permit expired on 30th April. I went to the parking services office at 4.15pm last Friday, 28th April, to renew my permit having been told previously by the guy at the reception desk at the council offices that they were open until 5 pm.

 

Friday is the only day I can get there due to work, but apparently they close at 4, not 5 pm. So basically I could not renew my permit in time because I was misinformed by council staff about the parking office closing time.

 

Couldn't care less about the ticket to be honest, because there is no way I will pay up anyway, bailiffs or no bailiffs.

 

However the point of the post is this:

 

The ticket does indeed state "Date of Offence".

 

The other interseting thing is it is also headed "Penalty Charge Notice, Road Traffic Act 1991 (as amended)". Hasn't the Act been updated since then? If so this reference to the Act as printed on the ticket is incorrect.

 

Another possible "flaw" is that it refers to my car registration number as "VRM" but gives no explanation of what "VRM" means, is this legally flawed too?

I only mouth my opinion, please look elsewhere for sensible advice! :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

If it does not say "date of issue" anywhere on the ticket then it is unenforcable. Make representations to this effect

First Direct, £4031 Recovered

Halifax, £953 Recovered

MBNA Credit Card, £120 Recovered

American Express, £160 Recovered

Coming Soon......

Blackpool Council, £190 in unlawful parking tickets

Carstoppers. £50 from the cowboy clampers

Link to post
Share on other sites

It does say "Date of issue" but below this on the payment slip (which is all part of the same piece of paper, the whole ticket also seems to double up as a payment slip) it says "Date of Offence".

 

It's my understanding from the NPAS site that it should read "contravention of regulations", no "Offence".

 

 

From the NPAS site http://www.parking-appeals.gov.uk/RegAndLeg/parkingRegu.asp

 

Under the decriminalised scheme brought in by the Road Traffic Act 1991, when a vehicle is, for example, parked on a yellow line during controlled hours, it is said to be parked ‘in contravention of the regulations’. Thus there are no offences, merely contraventions.

I only mouth my opinion, please look elsewhere for sensible advice! :)

Link to post
Share on other sites
It does say "Date of issue" but below this on the payment slip (which is all part of the same piece of paper, the whole ticket also seems to double up as a payment slip) it says "Date of Offence".

 

 

The payment slip although attached is not part of the PCN.

 

Both the Date of Issue and the Date of Contravention MUST appear on the PCN.

 

The payment slip has nothing legally to do with the Penalty Charge Notice itself.

 

Take a look at page 2 of the link below.

http://www.parking-appeals.gov.uk/about/circulars/Wording%20of%20PCN.pdf

PUTTING IT IN WRITING & KEEPING COPIES IS A MUST FOR SUCCESS

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll try and scan it in this weekend and reproduce it in text here; too much to type out.

 

One interesting point though, the PCN has a date of issue ( 05/05/2008 ) and a time or sorts ( 08:18 to 08:30 ) but no other date except for the bottom section which is not seperated in any way from the top section (not even by a printed line) says "Date of Offence" (same date).

 

So it's invalid either way. The PCN number on the supposedly seperate payment slip is the same as the one above on the PCN which forms part of the same document.

 

So if the Date of Issue and the Date of Contravention MUST appear on the PCN and it doesn't (because the date of Contravention doesn't appear at all, except in the form of a "Date of Offence" on the payment slip) then the ticket isn't worth the paper it's written on. It's wrongly worded whichever way you look at it, because the "Date of Contravention" isn't mentioned at all. That makes it invalid under section 66.

I only mouth my opinion, please look elsewhere for sensible advice! :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

As per previous post scan it and send to Neil Herron

 

metricmartyrs@btconnect.com

 

Ask him what to do next, he will help.

First Direct, £4031 Recovered

Halifax, £953 Recovered

MBNA Credit Card, £120 Recovered

American Express, £160 Recovered

Coming Soon......

Blackpool Council, £190 in unlawful parking tickets

Carstoppers. £50 from the cowboy clampers

Link to post
Share on other sites

Please note that this topic has not had any new posts for the last 3732 days.

If you are trying to post a different story then you should start your own new thread. Posting on this thread is likely to mean that you won't get the help and advice that you need.

If you are trying to post information which is relevant to the story in this thread then please flag it up to the site team and they will allow you to post.

Thank you

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    No registered users viewing this page.


  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...