Your parking ticket may be unlawful

[patdavies]

No. You're wasting your time.

 

The letter that you have sent refers to Penalty Charge Notices (PCN) issued by councils (or their agents) under the RTA1991 for de-criminlaised parking.

 

You do not have a PCN, you have a private ticket issued by a private company for allegedly parking on private land. Their 'ticket' it not void because it fails to comply with the 1991 Act; it is void because a private company cannot legally issue a PCN.

 

Read through the other private parking threads to find out how to fight this - using the RTA1991 is not relevant.

[Rob S]

Dudepop,

 

The ticket you were given was in relation to parking on private property. You have mentioned the Moses v Barnet ruling in your letter, but that relates to decriminalised parking in a public place, which comes under the Road Traffic Act 1991.

 

In your situation, its a case of CP Plus being able to prove that there was a contract established with the driver of the vehicle, not the registered keeper. They have to prove that and they can not just go to the registered keeper and demand payment. The onus is very much on them to be able to prove who the driver was and establish that a contract was formed. The registred keeper is under no legal obligation to inform them who the driver was. They may state otherwise,and they may use dubious tactics to try and convince you that is the case, but there is nothing in law that forces the registered keeper to pay any form of penalty for parking on private premises.

[dudepop]

Dudepop,

 

The ticket you were given was in relation to parking on private property. You have mentioned the Moses v Barnet ruling in your letter, but that relates to decriminalised parking in a public place, which comes under the Road Traffic Act 1991.

 

In your situation, its a case of CP Plus being able to prove that there was a contract established with the driver of the vehicle, not the registered keeper. They have to prove that and they can not just go to the registered keeper and demand payment. The onus is very much on them to be able to prove who the driver was and establish that a contract was formed. The registred keeper is under no legal obligation to inform them who the driver was. They may state otherwise,and they may use dubious tactics to try and convince you that is the case, but there is nothing in law that forces the registered keeper to pay any form of penalty for parking on private premises.

 

Thanks rob s, i think i will go down the route you described. wish me luck

[trevor33]

If it does not say "date of issue" anywhere on the ticket then it is unenforcable. Make representations to this effect

 

I have received a Parking Ticket From East Lindsey D C (Skegness), for parking in a non-disabled bay and not paying the Pay & Display fee. (Blue badge on display).

When I queried this ticket, I had a lengthy letter in return quoting "Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 - Section 112.

This ticket only has on it "Notice to pay Excess Charge".

Does not mention any "Traffic act"

Only has the word "Date"

Is this a legal ticket and has this 1984 act been updated in 1991.

[seylectric]

I've just got a PCN in Richmond Upon Thames and just noticed that the 'Notice Number' is missing. Does this make it invalid??

 

Yes, I would say so, particularly if you receive a reminder notice with the Noitce Number on it. You could then truthfully argue that you have not got been issued a PCN with that number on it!

[patdavies]

I have received a Parking Ticket From East Lindsey D C (Skegness), for parking in a non-disabled bay and not paying the Pay & Display fee. (Blue badge on display).

When I queried this ticket, I had a lengthy letter in return quoting "Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 - Section 112.

This ticket only has on it "Notice to pay Excess Charge".

Does not mention any "Traffic act"

Only has the word "Date"

Is this a legal ticket and has this 1984 act been updated in 1991.

 

The RTA1991 introduced decriminalised parking (DPE) in London. Later amendments introduced this power to other councils where authorised by the Secretary of State. With DPE, tickets are PCNs issued by PAs.

 

Prior to this Act, highway parking was enforced by Police or Traffic Wardens using FPNs (Fixed Penalty Notices) - these are a criminal offence. Parking on Council land was controlled by the RTRA1984 and ECNs (Excess Charge Notices) are issued. Where DPE is not in place this regime of FPN and ECN still applies.

 

ECNs are controlled via local regulations and you would need to obtain a copy of the relevant regulations for where you were parkied to ascertain whether the ECN is correctly issued.

 

The way an ECN works is this. For the sake of example, the ECN is £20. The cost of parking is in the regulations and is £20. However, if you pay your parking fee and comply with the rest of the regulations, then this parking fee is discounted to (say) 50p/hr. Parking outside the regulations automatically qualifies you for an ECN, which is effectively a notice removing the discount and charging you the full amount of £20.

[trevor33]

Thank you Patdavies.

It seems that this ticket is legal!

Where could I obtain a copy of the relevant regulations for ECN's

[patdavies]

The ticket should provide the title of the regulations/byelaws being used - a copy is available from the council concerned. (Freedom of Information Act if necessary, but it shouldn't be).

 

If not on the ticket (and I am not sure that it must be) then they will be listed on the notice(s) in the car park.

[trevor33]

Thanks for the info. Have checked the ticket and is very basic. Does not refer to any regulations/bylaws except "Off street Parking Places No1 Order 2002" then "Notice to pay Excess Charge" and also the car details, but only gives 7 DAYS to pay before charge goes up. Any info will help.

[patdavies]

Thanks for the info. Have checked the ticket and is very basic. Does not refer to any regulations/bylaws except "Off street Parking Places No1 Order 2002" then "Notice to pay Excess Charge" and also the car details, but only gives 7 DAYS to pay before charge goes up. Any info will help.

 

That is the order of which you require a copy.

[tazzababe]

Hope someone can help!

Friend and I went shopping, she paid for 2hr ticket and we went off on our merry way. She forgot her store card and went back about an hour later leaving me in the shop. I then get an hysterical phone call saying that she had been given a PCN and that I had to come back to the car coz the guy told her to go to the office to sort it out. When I got back to her, it seems that even though we paid for 2hrs, the ticket only showed 1 hr, she had explained this and the guy told her that she needed to go to the office and they would sort it out. Anyway, we couldn't find the office and had to leave so I could pick up my daughter.

 

Having looked at the "Penalty Charge Notice" I have noticed that the make of the car is wrong, they have the right reg-wrong make:-o It also says "by parking attendant...." and there is the guys code then "Signature/Initials...." but it isn't signed.

 

Is there anything she can do?

[Rob S]

Tazzababe,

 

Who issued the ticket, was it the local authority, police or a private parking company?

[tazzababe]

Tazzababe,

 

Who issued the ticket, was it the local authority, police or a private parking company?

 

Local Authority

[seylectric]

Given that the make of car is wrong I would consider claiming that it wasn't your car and the plates could have been cloned - it happens!

 

Whilst I would not normally condone flouting the law traffic wardens do it all the time, booking vehicles which should not have been booked in the first place, ignoring obvious breaks in the lines etc, and sometimes you have to fight fire with fire.

 

That said, the chances are that the ticket is illegal anyway if the details, make of car in this case, are incorrect. I don't think there is a legal requirement for the tickets to be signed though.

[JonCris]

Local Authority

 

As your council parking has probably been decriminalised if it refers to a 'penalty' it is unenforecable.

[patdavies]

If it is a notice to pay excess charge (ECN), then this is actually proof that it is not DPE as ECN are issued under RTRA 1984.

 

If a council has DPE authority, then it must issue under the RTA 1991 (as amended) - it cannot continue to issue under the RTRA 1984

[sinon]

Hi All,

like many before me I suspect, I've just read your thread back to front. Despite reading the FAQs and other threads, there are a few answers I am unable to find.

 

Last November, I was misfortunate enough to receive the attention of a local council employed parking attendant.

I had many concerns about his actions, mainly stemming from the fact that he wouldn't let me drive away until he had finished writing his ticket, telling me I was the one parked illegally and local residents had the right to be protected against people like me! ( I had only pulled up to hand deliver a letter, hence the reason he didn't have time to write the ticket).

 

My local council has not yet satisfied criteria to operate a decriminalised system, so only controls certain parking ( residents, tradesmens, pay meters, etc, but not double yellows etc).

 

The attendent gave me a notice which states

xxxx borough council

road traffic regulation act 1984

 

to the registered keeper of vehicle registration no xxxx

 

in respect of which the following parking offence appears to have been committed

 

no disc displayed

 

vehicle details xxxx

 

time 12.25

 

pursuant to section 112 of the above act you are required to state in writing within 14 days the identity and address of the driver of the above vehicle on this occassion.

 

Failure to comply with this notice is an offence punishable by a fine of up to £1000

 

The council agreed to take no further action on reading my circumstances, however I do not understand how they can give a request for more information, but not a parking ticket.

 

Also, because they are operating under 1984 Act can they refer to an offence being committed?

 

Finally, after reading the Residents Priority Parking Order which they operate the scheme under, they have not updated their charges detailed in the order, despite numerous increases ( now more than double their introduction price in 2001) . Can they apply these new charges for permits, even though they don't have them accurately stated in the Parking Order?

 

Any help to understand this will be very appreciated, as I'm not sure if things change due to working under the 1984 RTRA

 

Regards, Simon

[vaughan94]

i got a ticket 12/12/06 at 14:28 i was in a taxi rank single yellow line was in the bank 2-3 min bank rec dated 12/12/06 thats 5 min it has *issue date 12/12/06* was seen at location ********* on 12/12/06 code 01 parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours,ive appealed it "its a old central parking systems ticket not ncp*(scotland)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

hi all,ive just had a letter back,date of issue of this notice 21/02/2007,ive only got 28 days to pay,its now £60 i thought it was suspended during a appeal and i only had £30 to pay? thanks

[patdavies]

 

Last November, I was misfortunate enough to receive the attention of a local council employed parking attendant.

I had many concerns about his actions, mainly stemming from the fact that he wouldn't let me drive away until he had finished writing his ticket, telling me I was the one parked illegally and local residents had the right to be protected against people like me! ( I had only pulled up to hand deliver a letter, hence the reason he didn't have time to write the ticket).

 

Only a police officer or police traffic warden, in uniform, can require you to stop. A council employee is not empowered to do so. However, because this is the RTRA1984, the ECN would be sent to the RK. Under DPE (the RTA1991), the ticket cannot be sent later if the cehicle is driven off before the ticket is completed.

 

The moral of this is never, ever stop to argue with a parking attendant; get in and drive off straight away. If the PA obstructs you, take pictures (mobile phone?).

 

 

pursuant to section 112 of the above act you are required to state in writing within 14 days the identity and address of the driver of the above vehicle on this occassion.

 

Failure to comply with this notice is an offence punishable by a fine of up to £1000

 

The council agreed to take no further action on reading my circumstances, however I do not understand how they can give a request for more information, but not a parking ticket.

 

Also, because they are operating under 1984 Act can they refer to an offence being committed?

The offence being referred to is the failure to provide the information required under S112 of the Act. Under the 1984 Act the driver is liable, not the RK. The Act therefore gives them the power to require information as to who the driver was at the time.

 

The parking issue is not an offence; failure to supply the information is a criminal offence

 

Finally, after reading the Residents Priority Parking Order which they operate the scheme under, they have not updated their charges detailed in the order, despite numerous increases ( now more than double their introduction price in 2001) . Can they apply these new charges for permits, even though they don't have them accurately stated in the Parking Order?

 

Any help to understand this will be very appreciated, as I'm not sure if things change due to working under the 1984 RTRA

 

The RTRA 1984 allows a council to issue an Excess Charge Notice (ECN) as a 'penalty' for failure to follow the rules. This works as follows:

 

For the sake of the example, the excess charge notice is £20.

 

The council charges £20 to park in this location. However, because a motorists has a residents' permit or purchases a parking ticket, then they are allowed to park at a discounted rate (free with a permit or Xp/hr for example). If the driver does not comply with the terms of the Traffic Order for the parking space(s), then he becomes liable to lose the discount and pay the full charge.

 

You would need to start with the original order and then work forwards through the various bits of paperwork raising the charges to see if the charges are now lawful.

[gingermatti]

I tried to challenge a parking ticket on the grounds shown elsewhere in this thread (incorrect ticket details etc) but got a snotty reply back saying that because it's a police issued ticket (rather than a council one) the same rules don't apply. Sounds like hogwash to me but has anyone else had any experience of this?

 

Matt

[TideTurner]

Regarding [problem] companies,

 

There are a couple of them, operating in Leeds and Huddersfield, where they slap tickets on your car, and then bombard you with letter threatening Court action and the removal of your vehicle. They also threaten that the charge is increasing by £3.00 per day.

 

When you contact the council, they are not licensed by any authority.

 

When you eventually manage to track them down through the net, they hide behind PO Boxes and 0870 numbers.

 

I've reported one of them to the DTI, and will report the other shortly.

 

They have said that they only deal with private land, and everything they do is above board.

 

Bullcrap.

 

What they are doing is entirely illegal. If you receive a ticket which is not from an authorised body, report it immediately to the DTI.

 

I phoned the private land owner (a restaurant) who immediately said it was nothing to do with them. They couldn't say this quick enough.

 

Regardless of any signs which are up, with private cases, they need to show that you entered into a contract with their client and that the terms were agreed. Their only other option is trespass, where they have to prove damage.

 

Tide

[timtimbo]

Need some urgent help, my girlfriend presented me with a pile of parking tickets she got in my car, she has my car permanently as I have a company car.

 

Well I had a good read through the begining of this massive thread a month ago, and decided that the ticket was invalid because it stated date of notice not date of issue, it wasn't until I had a good read last night that I discovered a lot further through the tread that this ment the same thing. Is there anyone out there that can have a good look at them find some other fault with them that I can appeal against.

 

I have them all scanned onto an attachment that I can email to anyone that's in the know,

 

Please please help.

[kopite71]

PM me.

 

I'll have a look at them.

[wilsoman]

Hi all, just a quick note. I used to work for a council in Roads an Transpotation department and dealt with amongst other things parking restrictions.

 

If you get a ticket for parking on double yellows then you should ensure that the local authority has a Road Traffic Order on the section of road preventing people parking on it. This can normally be found by speaking to the local Roads department at the council or by looking it up in the library.

 

You alos need to check that there are appropriate signs advising what the actual restrictions are on the particular stretch of road.

 

You should also check that more than 50% of the carriageway that the lines are on are clearly marked. If they are faded and broken for more than 50% of the section in question then the restriction is not legally enforceable.

 

If you are ticketed on private land (i.e. supermarket car parks) for parking in a disabled bay then you should again chek there is a Road Traffic Order stating that the space may only be used by disabled drivers. If not then ticket should be revoked. By the way I am not advocating parking in disabled bays. These should only be used by the disabled, but if for any reason you find this to be the only space left then maybe this info will help.

 

Generally on private land provided there are appropriate signs warning about the restrctions then you can and will be ticketed for non-compliance and it's quite difficult to get out of these.

 

Final thought on the matter. Under the Road Traffic Act of 1991 it actually states that it is not legal to park a vehicle of any description anywhere on the Queens Highway at any time so be careful.

[patdavies]

TROs also apply to parking bays, single yellows, etc. - effectively any road restrictions or signage.

 

There is absolutely nothing about "50%" of lines faded. etc.

 

The lines must conform to the regulations over their entire length - end of story.

 

There will not be a TRO for a private car park. The whole point is that it is private - the council cannot (except via planning permission) set any rules for parking on private land.

 

Private land ticketing is a matter of contract law and not the RTA or TRSGD.

 

Could you point to a reference for your point regarding not being legal to park a vehicle anywhere on the Queen's Highway please?