Your parking ticket may be unlawful

[julianm]

Thanks Seylectric and to johncris for your advice.

 

I definitely won't go down the nick on Tuesday now. I'm not too worried about the parking ticket bit, because it was a loading bay, and as you point out, the threat is null and void if she didn't write it out at the time. The bit I'm worried about now is that she will say "driving away" is failing to stop for a police officer. I wouldn't have thought community support would be allowed to stop someone without a reason. It seems unclear from what I've read.

At this site it says they can "stop vehicles for testing"

Together - tackling anti-social behaviour

 

Well - I guess I'll ask a solicitor on Monday

 

Thanks again for your help

 

j

[seylectric]

Is it actually possible to park legally without having to pay for it in Blackpool any more?

 

'legally' of course assuming that the tickets are correctly worded and the lines correctly painted and signed.

 

I was parked outside the Halifax on Lytham Rd near Waterloo Road the other day, you know the one, long lay by with bus stops and ample space for 7 or 8 cars but yellow lines painted all the way along.

 

Sure enough the local warden came out of the woodwork and asked me to move the car or get a ticket. I asked him if he knew the law relating to parking on yellow lines, and pointed out that considering his job he should do! I then pointed out the foot-wide gap in the line which rendered the d/y line irrelevant and thus informed him that I was not illegally parked.

 

He said it was up to me, move it or get a ticket. I told him that I would easily win the appeal and asked him how he would fancy going to court for intimidation/harrassment having now been made aware of the law and still threatening to illegally "book" me! He wandered off...

[seylectric]

Thanks Seylectric and to johncris for your advice.

 

I definitely won't go down the nick on Tuesday now. I'm not too worried about the parking ticket bit, because it was a loading bay, and as you point out, the threat is null and void if she didn't write it out at the time. The bit I'm worried about now is that she will say "driving away" is failing to stop for a police officer. I wouldn't have thought community support would be allowed to stop someone without a reason. It seems unclear from what I've read.

At this site it says they can "stop vehicles for testing"

Together - tackling anti-social behaviour

 

Well - I guess I'll ask a solicitor on Monday

 

Thanks again for your help

 

j

 

But you didn't fail to stop! You had a brief conversation with her! Is she allowed to bang on the side of your car? Not sure about that one either!

[JonCris]

Also there has to be a vehicle examiner present for them to stop you for testing

[Rob S]

Plastic police officers, sorry I mean community support officers, do not have any powers to stop a motor vehicle. Traffic wardens are only allowed to stop vehicles when they are directing traffic.

 

I would try and verify who this person is, has she given you her details? If she is a PCSO or traffic warden who is trying it on, then it might be worth making a formal complaint against her as she is clearly exceeding her authority.

[Raptor]

Hi all,

Was swimming yesterday with my 3yr old and went over the free residents parking by minutes and got this: http://www.meeeet.me.uk/fine.jpg

 

Was in a council sports centre car park (off road) using their facilities, seems a bit excessive.

 

What should I do here?

 

Thanks.

[GRUMPY1]

Just So You Are All Aware, I Got A Pcn In September In Blackpool, And As It Stated Date Of Offence On The Payment Slip I Refused To Pay. I Have Since Had A Letter Saying That It Would Not Be In The Public Interest For Them To Pursue The Payment Of This Pcn, And All Action Was Dropped. Since Then The Pcn's Have Been Re-worded

[Rob S]

Hi all,

Was swimming yesterday with my 3yr old and went over the free residents parking by minutes and got this: http://www.meeeet.me.uk/fine.jpg

 

Was in a council sports centre car park (off road) using their facilities, seems a bit excessive.

 

What should I do here?

 

Thanks.

 

I don't see a date of contravention on there at all, just the date and time your car was seen. I wonder if that could be significant?

[GRUMPY1]

scan your ticket onto your computer, both sides, and mail it to [email protected] and i will have a look

[Raptor]

scan your ticket onto your computer, both sides, and mail it to [email protected] and i will have a look

 

Hi, Click http://www.meeeet.me.uk/fine.jpg

[GRUMPY1]

Did Look At It Earlier, But Couldn't See The Payment Slip

[Raptor]

The payment slip is legit - its on the back of the white slip uploaded.

 

 

Q. is that a standard PCN or is it something else? It says 'Notice To Pay Excess Charge'

[seylectric]

Just So You Are All Aware, I Got A Pcn In September In Blackpool, And As It Stated Date Of Offence On The Payment Slip I Refused To Pay. I Have Since Had A Letter Saying That It Would Not Be In The Public Interest For Them To Pursue The Payment Of This Pcn, And All Action Was Dropped. Since Then The Pcn's Have Been Re-worded

 

Who was the letter from? Phoenix Commercial Collectiobns are still pursuing me to the tune of over £2000 for unpaid Blackpool PCN's; I want to be able to actually quote a given case where other people have been "let off" if possible, next time i contact them.

[denzil69]

some quick ones:

 

date of notice on ticket, no date of issue... is this PCN ok?

 

road traffic act 1991 (as ammended) is legislation on top of council's penalty charge notice, this puzzles me, the road traffic act is a piece of legislation, relevant only to the police, for use in criminal courts.

 

the road traffic act states only that a local authority can apply to the police/courts/etc to take over parking controls and decriminalise them.

 

the local authority then put in place a set of civil regulations, under which they can issue penalty notices. it is under the authority's regulations that the notice is issued, NOT the road traffic act. surely the regulations should be listed on the notice as the legislation for the penalty charge?

 

 

parking half in a bay and half out of a bay, on a council run off road car park, when a traffic attendant has already stated in front of 3 people 2 weeks earlier, "we dont issue tickets if your outside of a bay on this car park, as the lines need re-painting and are not clearly visible, its in need of repair!".... imagine my surprise when her colleague issues me a ticket.

 

finally....

 

the road traffic act, applies the rule of law to the ROAD, on private/council run off road carparks, it is not applicable... so why do the appeals refusal teams insist on using it to justify their penalties?

[rogerebaker]

Denzil.

I think the Road Traffic Act Act 1991 clearly states that the council can issue and administer on and off Road parking. It states in a number of places that the Local authority must do this and that so I think your on a loser there.

 

Car parks can certainly be considered Roads under certain circumstances. i.e. Pub car parks, Drink Drive etc etc.

[denzil69]

ta for that....

 

problem is, the road traffic act is not the act the council use to issue a penalty charge notice.

 

last ticket the missus got i wrote to the department of transport 3 times asking them to clarify this, and they have yet to write back!

 

my understanding is the penalty notice must have the legislation listed on the notice, which is being used to issue the ticket. the road traffic act only states that a council can apply to run parking services, and the contravention code given refers to the councils own parking regulations, which is not even listed on the ticket front or back.

 

in other words, the act or rules that are being used to enforce a penalty notice are not actually listed on the ticket at all.

 

by listing the road traffic act, it implies that this law is being used to issue a penalty notice, when in fact, no police officer would assist a parking attendant in issuing it as its a civil matter, as the councils regulations are a civil action, and not a criminal action.

 

if that makes any sense hehe

[Raptor]

I don't see a date of contravention on there at all, just the date and time your car was seen. I wonder if that could be significant?

 

I would hope that could be significant?

 

Anyone got experience of this type of ticket? http://www.meeeet.me.uk/fine.jpg

[patdavies]

ta for that....

 

problem is, the road traffic act is not the act the council use to issue a penalty charge notice.

 

Yes it is

 

 

the road traffic act only states that a council can apply to run parking services, and the contravention code given refers to the councils own parking regulations, which is not even listed on the ticket front or back.

 

The contravention codes are listed in the RTA1991 and published on the NPAS/PATAS websites - they are no council regulations in play here

 

 

by listing the road traffic act, it implies that this law is being used to issue a penalty notice, when in fact, no police officer would assist a parking attendant in issuing it as its a civil matter, as the councils regulations are a civil action, and not a criminal action.

 

 

The RTA1991 allows the councils or their agents to issue contravention notices - the Police are not involved in any way. And you are correct that the enforcement is civil - this is decriminalised parking enforcement

[quasar]

my name is Mike and i am a parking ticket wictim

 

 

I got a ticket a few weks ago,

I disputed it of course

on the ground I have never received it.

 

I do remember that day I "got it",

I remember having seen Parking attendant around

but I drove off before he even started issuing ticket

It has never been attached to my car or presented to me

 

I asked for a photographic evidence 8-)

as AFAIK every single attendand in London Borough of Kensington and Chelsea carries a camera and takes a pictures.

I have disputed tickets before and always won if they couldnt provide a pic.

 

 

this time I got a letter:

 

 

I have checked the Parking Attendant's pocket book notes (WTH:confused: )

which clearly show thet:

 

At 16.09 PA noted thed P&D ticket No 297864567 which had been bought at 16.26 for £ 1.00 and displayed in your vehicle expired 16.46. The PA issued PCN at 16.54

 

The PA has recorded thet the PCN was fixed to the vehcle (what a lie ! )

sometimes it can happen thet the PCN is removed without permission or the driver does not see it and it blows off when the vehicle is driven away. If this happens it does not mean the notice becomes invalid. Full details of the PCN are on the Notice to Owner. I enclose a copy of the PCN for your information.

 

You requested photographic evidence. I regret to inform you that there are no photos in your files that I can send you copies. PA are gradually being equipped with cameras but the scheme is under way but not completed.

 

Our decision:

You have not given us enough grounds to cancel the PCN. For this reason I have rejected your representation.

 

 

 

What i can do next?

I can appeal against that decision, of course

I received Parking and Traffic Appeal Service form.

 

But it means my words against PA's words.

They cannot prove he's issued it correctly

but I cannot prove it hasn't been issued.

 

 

should I just pay bloody fine?

I have 2 days left to pay discounted rate of £50

[me_n_my_kids]

what are the differences in law and validity when the ticket is dealt with by the police? mine was normal parking ticket with payment due to strathclyde police, glasgow:mad:

[rogerebaker]

my name is Mike and i am a parking ticket wictim

 

 

I got a ticket a few weks ago,

I disputed it of course

on the ground I have never received it.

 

I do remember that day I "got it",

I remember having seen Parking attendant around

but I drove off before he even started issuing ticket

It has never been attached to my car or presented to me

 

I asked for a photographic evidence 8-)

as AFAIK every single attendand in London Borough of Kensington and Chelsea carries a camera and takes a pictures.

I have disputed tickets before and always won if they couldnt provide a pic.

 

 

this time I got a letter:

 

 

 

 

 

 

What i can do next?

I can appeal against that decision, of course

I received Parking and Traffic Appeal Service form.

 

But it means my words against PA's words.

They cannot prove he's issued it correctly

but I cannot prove it hasn't been issued.

 

 

should I just pay bloody fine?

I have 2 days left to pay discounted rate of £50

 

I would appeal out of a matter of principle. I dont think it is a certainty that they will believe the parking attendant especially if they havnt got a photo. If you read the Moses V Barnet high court judges ruling he believed the motorist when he said it was never placed on his car.

 

I know the K and C NTO was recently proved to be defective as it gave 28 days from date of notice and not 28 days from date of service. Have you had a good look at your NTO.

[JonCris]

Plastic police officers, sorry I mean community support officers, do not have any powers to stop a motor vehicle. Traffic wardens are only allowed to stop vehicles when they are directing traffic.

 

I would try and verify who this person is, has she given you her details? If she is a PCSO or traffic warden who is trying it on, then it might be worth making a formal complaint against her as she is clearly exceeding her authority.

 

TW's can stop a vehicle & they can also demand ID. Parking Attendants cannot

[vaughan94]

i got a ticket 12/12/06 at 14:28 i was in a taxi rank single yellow line was in the bank 2-3 min bank rec dated 12/12/06 thats 5 min it has *issue date 12/12/06* was seen at location ********* on 12/12/06 code 01 parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours,ive appealed it "its a old central parking systems ticket not ncp*(scotland)

[Rob S]

TW's can stop a vehicle & they can also demand ID. Parking Attendants cannot

 

But the circumstances in which they can stop a vehicle are very limited. Interesting if a TW demands ID and it is refused what they would do next, as they have no power of arrest.

[JonCris]

For the moment they can ask you to remain whilst a police officer is sent for when you will be arrested.

 

Also they can of course make a citizens arrest as can Community Support Officers.