Jump to content


Excel/ELMS ANPR PCN - Wrong reg entered - Appeal rejected - Claimform - Crown Street 24Hr Pay Car Park, Leeds, LS27DE


Recommended Posts

Which Court have you received the claim from? MCOL Northampton N1 

Name of the Claimant :  EXCEL PARKING SERVICES LIMITED         

Claimants Solicitors: ELMS LEGAL LIMITED

Date of issue – 5-Feb-2024

Date for AOS - 17-Feb-2024

Date to submit Defence - 1-Mar-2024

What is the claim for –  

1. The claim is for a breach of contract for breaching the terms and conditions set on private land.

2. The defendants vehicle [REG], was identified in the Crown Street 24hr Pay car park on the 19/7/2023 in breach of the advertised terms and conditionsNamely Parked without purchasing a valid Pay&Display ticket for VRM.

3, At all material times the Defendant was the registered keeper and/or driver.

4. The terms and conditions upon entering private land were clearly displayed at the entrance and in prominent locations

5. The sign was the offer and the act of entering into a contract by conduct.

6. The Signs specifically detail the terms and conditions and the consequences of failure to comply, namely a parking charge notice will be issued, and the Defendant has failed to settle the outstanding liability.

The Claimant seeks the recovery of the parking charge notice, contractual costs and interest.

 

What is the value of the claim? 

Amount Claimed - £170

court fees - £35

legal rep fees - £50

Total Amount  - £255

Have you moved since the issuance of the PCN? N

Did you receive a letter of Claim With A reply Pack wanting I&E etc about 1mth before the claimform? Yes (Letter before claim with a reply pack [2-Nov-2023] and then Notification of Instruction 8-Dec-2023])

Hi All, 

I've just found this forum and I wish I had found it earlier... what an impressive resource!

I did not realise the extent of these scamming practices and regret thinking i'd be dealing with reasonable people.


Story is:

Mistyped my registration in the machine and didn't realise and Paid

PCN for not having a valid registration on the ticket

Appealed to IAS and lost

ignored letters asking me to pay and here we are with a claim. 

I was confused as I paid, showed the ticket and in the appeal

they sent my transaction but still insisted it wasn't a valid ticket...

There is literally no loss in profit there for Excel

I've already acknowledged the claim and sent a CPR31.14 letter. 

I'm thinking of just submitting the generic defence (as per forum) and then fleshing out the details in the court

- Any advice here would be great

To be honest, any advice in general would be great, 

Note: Attached is pdf with the 1st page of the claim and the PCN (2 pages).

Then there's all the letters sent by Excel/Elms for reference + the signs of the car park they sent me. 
 

 

 

Combined Letters EXCEL_ELMS_withsigns.pdf

Edited by Nicky Boy
Extra redaction on PDF
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Well done on all the reading up you've done and on getting on with AOS and CPR.

I think your correct defence filing deadline is 8 March.

A few things.

1.  Did you out the driver when you appealed?

2.  The signs they have sent may have very little to do with the real ones in the car park.  Is this place local to you?  Would you be able to go back and take pix of the signs yourself?  Excel have a sister company, VCS, and in the past numerous cases have been won on the basis that their signage showed both companies so the motorist wouldn't have a clue which company they were entering into a contract with.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

wow 10/10.....for getting almost everything inc thread title perfect.

one page in the pdf had all your details i've done it for you.

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I wouldn't worry too much- these cases are usually lost by the parking rogues. You paid and in a famous case in Baroness Walmsley v TFL [she had also entered the wrong reg.number and this was in an appeal Court] the Judge sais the Law is concerned by those who do not pay for their ticket. She had paid so all charges were dropped . You paid so all Excel rubbish about entering your reg number is just that -absolute rubbish.

A number of other things. Their Claim form has not decided if they are taking you to Court as the keeper or the driver they must make up their mind. that is one reason why Dave asked if you admitted you were the driver. There are extra protections if you were the keeper but who was driving has not been revealed.

Goes to show their limted educational knowledge by using Principle Debt on the letter Before Claim rather than Principal DTime and again these charges get thrown out of Court ebt. That will be the only time they will have anyDprinciples in all your case.🙂

They have also added an extra £70 to the bill despite the signage stating £100 as the maximum payment.Time and again these unlawful extras get thrown out of court but still they persist in claiming them. Why you ask? most people prefer to avoid Court so they just pay up and heir payment may well include the £70. I told you that had no principles so well done  for fighting these rogues.

You may have noticed that the signagepictures  that they sent are in a larger font than the rest of the documents they included. This is because the signs in the car park often ahve too small a font size for motorists to see or notice the contents of the signs and Judges throw out the cases where the signage is poor. Hence the reason why they have increased the sizes on your documents to tryand bamboozle the Judge and you. They wouldn't increase the size for you if they felt they were of a legal size would they? See what I mean about their principles.  Not a single one.

If you look at the Welcome sign first there is too much information on it to be able to take it all in as you are driving past. Second the bit about entering the correct vrm iw way too small to be acceptable.

Moving on the Notice to keeper- the document has to comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4 which governs the private parking rogues. If the original PCN doesn't comply with the Act then the keeper cannot be held liable for the debt. Of course if you have already outed yourself as the driver then it doesn't matter that the keeper is out.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Same thing exactly from Parking Eye about 4 years ago I think (can check)

at the back of the Adelphi Hotel (Manager there told him to ignore it - which he did for a while - obviously with  no success)

in Liverpool for my friend

- he paid the fee for the ticket at the machine and later left with 20 minutes to spare.

Friend replied and appealed of course to no avail

these mobster blood suckers dismiss appeals.

He continued to receive threats.

he telephoned them and a girl obviously reading from the script simple kept asking how he would like to pay completely ignored what he was saying.

after further intimidating and harassing and threatening  letters he again telephoned them.

He still had the relevant ticket and noticed there was ZERO acknowledgement of the claimed "WRONG" registration number !

In my view that should make their claim a nonstarter!

He lost his temper on the phone and said he would be delighted to go to court to humiliate them and that there was noway on God's earth he would pay a penny!!

WELL letters and claims STOPPED completely!.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Gatorade and welcome to CAG,

Any chance of all the details of your appeals please?

Maybe an upload ?

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group The National Consumer Service

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for all the replies, very welcoming community 
Appreciate fixing the unredacted doc - dx100uk and FTMDave for the correct defence filing time

1. I think I have outed myself as a driver, implicitly (have attached my appeal correspondence to the IAS - very chatgpt fueled). Can't remember if there was a checkmark that I ticked to say I was the driver or if I explicitly mentioned it but I was definitely not hiding it in my responses.

2. Regarding the signage, that is a very good point - I'm not super local but I'll see if I can call in some favours to take a pic for me. Their signs are very poor, the terms and conditions are tiny compared to the rest of the sign...

It all feels like an easy money grab and they're following a script. I've just seen another post with pretty much the same wording on the claim.

 


 

Combined - 20-Feb.pdf

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, you outed yourself as the driver.  Mistake.  But who hasn't made them?  Especially in legal dispute when you've never been in the position before.  I certainly have.  Just learn for the next time.

LFI's post is spot on.  Judges have ruled multiple times that if you paid then the registration nonsense is "de minimis".

You're still in a great position legally, and will give Simple Simon a hell of a kicking.

If you can call in the photo-taking-favour, that would be great.

 

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

There is another argument you could use. They used ANPR to get your reg number on entry. so  the number you entered at the cash machine shouldn't have  been accepted in a proper system as that number shouldn't have been recognised. But when you entered a different number  they accepted your money so it follows that they accepted your change to their system.

If they did not agree to the change you made they should not have accepted your money.

 

PS Just because Excel stated that you had admitted being the driver deosn't mean that you did say you were the driver....................

Edited by lookinforinfo
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Hi All, 

A little update -> I've received the CPR pack (attached) and filed the generic defence and now have to fill in the questionnaire. 

I had a question regarding section D - Suitability for determination without a hearing. Should I answer with No - Factual dispute regarding entering of contract? 

Excel have also sent me a letter saying that ELMS will no longer act on their behalf - letter is attached. Not sure if that's good or not. I'm sending the filled in questionnaire to both just in case.

In regards to the pictures, I've found some on google (attached), while I wait for the favour (they don't live as central as I had thought)

 

excel legal_Redacted.pdf post-25Mar_compressed.pdf Pictures of sign.docx

Link to post
Share on other sites

you should not be disappearing for a month and not reading up!!

if this dq n180 has come from the court (check its been sent out by the court on mcol claim history)

then:


https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/347310-legal-n180-directions-questionnaire-small-claims-track/#comment-5088148


3 copies

no to mediation 

1 wit you

Suitability for determination without a hearing? no (that the issues are so complex they need to be argued orally')

the rest is obv

1 to the court

1 to their sols (omit phone/sig/email) if no sols send to claimant

1 for your file

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I checked the MCOL and it says DQ sent to me

Thanks for clarifying, I misunderstood the post on the N180 regarding section D
'll fill in those details and then send 3 copies

In regards to the vrm, I entered only the first character into the machine... In my defence, the system was lagging so much that I hit the next button and it asked me to pay 😅

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well now,

Their POC have been rendered a total mess!

As well as the usual dodgy extra £70, they are now claiming £50 for legal representation that they are no longer using!

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group The National Consumer Service

Link to post
Share on other sites

Then "The maximum period allowed at this site is 0 minutes".  What about the various Codes of Practice?!!!  Oh dear!

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...