UKPC 2xWindsceen PCN's appeals lost - now 2*Claimforms - West Middx Uni hospital twickenham road, isleworth, tw76af

[KOGE19]

Hello All, 

I have had two county court claim forms claims issued in my name by UKPC for parking contraventions in a hospital carpark - one for an episode in 2018 and another in 2020.  

The summary is as below:

1. I had appointments and arrived about 30-40 minutes early to park. The turnstile let me in and there was a queue the moment I got in. The car park is serpentine in nature and other than intersections, a one way traffic system is in place, which should eventually take me to the point of exit. 

2. 20 minutes into the wait, I notice an area with no markings and decide to park there, without obstructing anyone. Leaving the car park was impossible in the 20 minutes due to people not allowing others to leave(all of them are waiting for other cars to exit with some getting upset). I somehow make my way to the exit point and realise if I go find another place, I will miss my appointment and end up getting discharged without being seen(This is a standard warning on most letters I guess). Also,  I do have to pay anyways since the grace period to exit is 10 minutes.

3) I appealed both times explaining my predicament, saying that I would not have gotten in if the turnstile would not open(since there were no free parking spaces) and hence could have found another suitable parking spot in time. They rejected the appeal mentioning that they do not control the barriers. POPLA did not acknowledge the problem I mentioned and the POPLA appeal response is not accessible anymore.

4) I did pay for the parking time as normal since I could not exit without paying for the ticket. I did not inconvenience anyone else.

5) Since then and between the incidents I have used the car park many other times and found spaces. Sometimes I park at a paid parking and walk to the hospital. 

Any ideas what I should do next.

Thanks,

G.

[FTMDave]

You need to defend the claims.

Did the fleecers send you Letters of Claim before court papers turned up?

In your appeals did you out yourself as the driver?

Most importantly - what dates are on the claim forms?

Edited May 23, 2023 by FTMDave
Extra info added

[KOGE19]

Thanks FTMDave,

Yes, I did mention myself as the driver, since I did want to be clear to them as to why the issue did happen.

I did not get any letters of claim and my plan is to defend the claim - would all that I mentioned be sufficient for a judge to decide in my favor. 

I do not have proof of payment of the car park tickets, but I guess the judge would agree that I paid since I could not leave without paying.

 

Thanks,

G.

[FTMDave]

Sorry, I wrote my post and then edited it later.  My bad.  The most important bit for now - what dates are on the two claim forms?

[KOGE19]

No problem.

One of them is dated 24/10/2018 and and the other is dated 20/02/2020.

 

[FTMDave]

No - the two claim forms from the court.

I ask as you only have a limited time in which to defend.

[KOGE19]

Ah, both them were issued on 19 May 2023 and I have submitted acknowledgement of service for both.

[FTMDave]

Well done!

[KOGE19]

 

Hello FTMDave,

I am preparing my defence. Should I submit the appeal forms/responses as attachments. I do not have the POPLA response for the second PCN, 

I do have the UKPC appeal response for the first PCN.

Any ideas how I could strengthen my case.

Thanks,

G.

 

[FTMDave]

Slow down for a moment.

The fact you've done AOS twice is superb and the most important thing for now.

Your defences will just be a few generic lines and you have quite a while to do so.

The important document is your Witness Statements before the hearings, and it's great you are trying to gather evidence straight away, but you'll have months to do this.

I'm afraid it's form-filling in time for us!  Please complete

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/391121-have-you-received-a-parking-ticket-please-fill-this-out/

and also

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/393251-received-a-court-claim-from-a-private-parking-speculative-invoice-how-to-deal-with-it-hereupdated-dec-2021/

for the 2018 ticket.

Then start a new thread and do exactly the same for the 2020 ticket.

Sorry, but as the fleecers have issued two claims you'll probably end up with two different court dates so everything needs to be duplicated.

 

[KOGE19]

Thanks FTMDave,

Apologies for hurrying this up. My dad's a bit unwell and I am hoping I dont have to attend court whilst he needs my care(he is in a different country).

If I could know before hand all the work that does need doing, I was hoping I could get it done and ready.

Sorry for pressurising you.

Good night,

G.

[FTMDave]

No pressure at all!

Don't worry, at a later stage - Directions Questionnaire - you will have the chance to state times when you'll be unavailable for court.

Just relax for the moment.  You now have till 20 June to file two short defences.  Please do the four  stickies when you have the chance.

You will also need to send two different CPR requests to the fleecers over the next few days.

[dx100uk]

yea please slow down

for each claim:

 

pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform

.

register as an individual on the Gov't Gateway Site
Go to HMRC's login page.

Click the GREEN sign in button.
Click “Create sign in details”
Enter your email address where asked.
You will now be emailed a confirmation code. ...

You will now be issued with a User ID for your government gateway account.
 note down your details inc the long gateway number given, you might need it later.
 

then log in to the MCOL Website

.

select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box.

.

then using the details required from the claimform

.

defend all

leave jurisdiction unticked.

click thru to the end

confirm and exit MCOL.

.

get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?486334-CPR-31.14-Request-to-use-on-receipt-of-a-PPC-(-Private-Land-Parking-Court-Claim

type your name ONLY

no need to sign anything

.

you DO NOT await the return of paperwork.

you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform.

………….
 

you also at some point in time before you file your defence in case its anything diff to the 1000's of speculative invoice claimform threads here 

we need to see EVERY letter /email etc in/out FOR BOTH CLAIMS from day one.

just use 2 mass pdf files - one for each claim please

CAREFULLY read our upload guide

scan up BOTHSIDE of everything in/out - one mass PDf for each claim ONLY.

 

[lookinforinfo]

Could you please post up the two original PCNs you received -not the reminders. Please do not include your name and address nor the vrm number but do include the dates and times.

Edited May 23, 2023 by lookinforinfo
spelling

[Homer67]

Which hospital was this?

[KOGE19]

31 minutes ago, Homer67 said:

Which hospital was this?

Hello Homer67,

It was at West Middlesex Hospital.

 

Thanks,

G.

 

[dx100uk]

13 hours ago, FTMDave said:

Slow down for a moment.

The fact you've done AOS twice is superb and the most important thing for now.

Your defences will just be a few generic lines and you have quite a while to do so.

The important document is your Witness Statements before the hearings, and it's great you are trying to gather evidence straight away, but you'll have months to do this.

I'm afraid it's form-filling in time for us!  Please complete

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/391121-have-you-received-a-parking-ticket-please-fill-this-out/

and also

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/393251-received-a-court-claim-from-a-private-parking-speculative-invoice-how-to-deal-with-it-hereupdated-dec-2021/

for the 2018 ticket.

Then start a new thread and do exactly the same for the 2020 ticket.

Sorry, but as the fleecers have issued two claims you'll probably end up with two different court dates so everything needs to be duplicated.

 

 

13 hours ago, dx100uk said:

yea please slow down

for each claim:

 

pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform

.

register as an individual on the Gov't Gateway Site
Go to HMRC's login page.

Click the GREEN sign in button.
Click “Create sign in details”
Enter your email address where asked.
You will now be emailed a confirmation code. ...

You will now be issued with a User ID for your government gateway account.
 note down your details inc the long gateway number given, you might need it later.
 

then log in to the MCOL Website

.

select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box.

.

then using the details required from the claimform

.

defend all

leave jurisdiction unticked.

click thru to the end

confirm and exit MCOL.

.

get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?486334-CPR-31.14-Request-to-use-on-receipt-of-a-PPC-(-Private-Land-Parking-Court-Claim

type your name ONLY

no need to sign anything

.

you DO NOT await the return of paperwork.

you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform.

………….
 

you also at some point in time before you file your defence in case its anything diff to the 1000's of speculative invoice claimform threads here 

we need to see EVERY letter /email etc in/out FOR BOTH CLAIMS from day one.

just use 2 mass pdf files - one for each claim please

CAREFULLY read our upload guide

scan up BOTHSIDE of everything in/out - one mass PDf for each claim ONLY.

 

please can you do all in the above posts please 

URGENT!!

 

we cant move you fwd without  it all being done

 

dx

 

[Homer67]

Contact PALS at the West Mid and ask them why they have allowed this to happen. Then contact your local newspaper and ask them to run an article on it.

Do what DX said above.

[KOGE19]

Hello Dx,

Sure will do in the next 2-3 days.

I have been busy with family and work and I am hoping I can do it this week.

I do not have the original PCNs, I just have the response to the appeals (first appeal to UKPC and the second one is a response to the POPLA appeal) . The POPLA representation they made does have a copy of the PCNs in PDF form.

I got a ticket for parking in an unmarked area, it was not an ANPR PCN. The ticket was issued by a warden.

 

Thanks,

G.

 

[dx100uk]

so there was a windscreen ticket on the car?

 

dx

 

[KOGE19]

Yes.

[dx100uk]

post it up please

was this the same in both cases?

 

just type no need to keep hitting quote

 

dx

 

[KOGE19]

Yes, it was the same in both cases.

[FTMDave]

Windscreen tickets are much rarer here than ANPR and usually the fleecers are too arrogant and stupid to follow the law properly.  You may well have a get-out-of-jail-free card.

But we won't know until, for each ticket, you fill in the two stickies, then let us see what the fleecers left on the car, plus the PCN that subsequently arrived in the post and how far you dropped yourself in it when you appealed.

[KOGE19]

Hello Dx and FTMDave, 

 

I had a look and do not have the original PCNs.  Any ideas what I should be submitting as defence while I try to get evidence supporting my case.

 

Thanks

G.