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TPS/BW ANPR PCN Claimform - Purley Way Retail Park, CroydonRetail park parking ticket


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Hi, hope that I've done this right. 

My dad is trying to help an elderly friend who has been stung for a ticket. 

I have the questionnaire filled below and a short list of the correspondence. 

I haven't uploaded any pics yet but I have a batch of images here that I can upload

It's been going on for a while!

 

For PCN's received through the post [ANPR camera capture]

 

please answer the following questions.

 

1 Date of the infringement25/05/19
 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date]31/05/19

 

[scan up BOTHSIDES as ONE PDF- follow the upload guide]

 

3 Date received04/08/20
 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?]N

 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event?Y

 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal]Y

 

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it upY

 

7 Who is the parking company?Total Parking Solutions

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town]Purley Way Retail Park,  Croydon

 

CORRESPONDENCE SO FAR

 

  1. 4/2/20  1st letter received from court - replied defence claim sent 20/2 
  2. 4/2/20  Copy of above as received -
  3. 4/2/20  Letter from BW legal (Legal recoveries) confirming the above -
  4. 24/2/20 Same letter as above -778k
  5. 27/2/20 Acknowledgement from Court of defence claim -
  6. 5/3/20 Letter from BW stating their client will still proceed as confident of winning case and then extra legal fees will be added + CCJ. -
  7. 12/3/20 BW sent a copy of their clients completed Directions Questionnaire -
  8. 9/3/20 Court sending Notice of proposed allocation to small claims-
  9. 7/4/20 BW Offer of reduction to £180 from £204.10 -
  10. 24/4/20 BW Offer of further reduction to £142.87 headed Great news -
  11. 21/5/20 Letter from Court - Transfer of Proceedings -
  12. 9/6/20 Same letter From BW as 24/4/20 with later extension date -
 
The only other contact made is as follows:
 
20/4/20 Phoned BW and sent email with photos of the Purley Way Retail Park with the signage including restrictions
27/4/20 Received email confirming they have sent my photos to client and would get back once they received a reply
29/5/20 Rang BW- They would chase client for a response as they had not heard anything.
3/8/20 Rang BW- They said they had just received a reply after 15 weeks and sent me an email containing photos of the signage in operation for Purley Way Retail Park at the time of the alleged offence, which clearly is not the same car park that I had supplied photographs of. 
I phoned them back and although the person I had been speaking to had left I was told I would receive a further e mail with photos of the contravention.
4/8/20 Received email of three letters sent last year (not seen before) showing the vehicle entering and leaving a car park which is not Purley Way Retail Park.
 
Purley Way is about a 3mile + long road with over 25 differently named car parks all with varying parking restrictions.
 
I know that the signage they sent me appears in at least 2 different car parks on either side of this road but both of these car parks are over 3/4 miles (1.2km) from the Purley Way Retail Park which all the letters relate to.
 
The vehicle has never been parked in Purley Way Retail Park and anyway there are no parking restrictions in that park that relate to this vehicle.
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Welcome to the Forum.  And well done -you did do it right. You haven't mentioned  when the hearing or  the Witness Statement is due. Also what the alleged offence was committed.

 

As there appears to be some doubt which car park is involved, could you pleae post up the post code on the PCN.

 

It is very good of your Father to help the person involved as the crooks make life difficult by lying and refusing to accept defeat when they know they are in the wrong-often from the start.

 

the good thing about the parking companies is that they are incompetent and appear unable to provide a  lawful contract between themselves and motorists which means that they rearely win in Court when the motorist is well prepared.

 

To help us give you the best advice to avoid payment, we need to see their PCNs and their WS . That will also tell us how much they are charging your friend.-which will probably be an unlawful amount in itself.

 

Do you live anywhere near the  Purley car park so you can get the correct position of where their signs  are and what they say. These companies are very good at showing the signs where they would like them to be, rather than where they actually are. often their different signs say different things. In addition, if it is a pay car park [as opposed to a free one, could you please take a photo of the rules on the ticket machine.

 

In order to have their signs in car parks, they require permission from the local Council under the Town and Country [advertisements] regulations. They tend not to always bother, which means that when they don't have permission, the signs should not be there and therefore it follows that no contract can be formed with motorists. Also they have breached their Code of Conduct and have breached   the   Consumer Rights  Act 2015 s 71. Then there is a question of whether they have the right to access the DVLA  and puts them inbreach of GDPR into the bargain.

 

Councils these days tend to have their Planning portal on line so if you input the car parl postcde into that Planning website if there were permissions granted they would be there.

 

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If the photos they sent aree the ones they are relying on, might be better to keep schtum, as they have then misled the court as they don't illustrate correctlythe land the  alleged contravention was on

We could do with some help from you.

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stop ringing BW!!

 

let them file what they have in their WS.

 

 

what defence was filed please too!

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • dx100uk changed the title to TPS/BW ANPR PCN Claimform - Purley Way Retail Park, CroydonRetail park parking ticket

The 4 photos are the restrictions enforced from January 2019 until now as indicated by BW Legal in their email of 3rd August 2020 which they say refer to Purley Way Retail Park. Their is also a PDF of their letter (correspondence 6) after a defence had been sent via the court.

 

The 3 documents are:

The original PCN (not received by post) that was first received by email on 4/8/20.

1) 4/2/20 -Defence claim sent to court 20/2/20.

6) 5/3/20 -Letter from BW Legal not accepting claim.

3_DOCS_REDACTED.pdf

pixs.pdf

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The defence sent in is impossible to read -is it possible to please type it instead.

 

it does look as if they have added unlawful charges to the PCN as they are asking for £204 when the amount on the PCN is £70.

 

Have you managed to look at the Council planning website to see if there is permission to erect signs and cameras? Councils usually grant three hour stays rather than the two hours allowed at this car park.

 

I cannot stress how important it is that you respond to the questions on post 5 and there is an instruction there to send a CPR to BWLegal.

 

They probably won't give you the answers as Total parking probably do not have all the legal requirements necessary to form a contract between themselves and motorists. 

 

There is also a template there  that you can fill out for the defence -we do need to know when that is supposed to be sent to the Court and it must be sent to them in time.Do not wait for BWLegal to reply to the CPR request.

 

Please post up the WS from BWLegal to see what their claim is all about- it's usually rubbish which is good from our point of view-it's easier to beat them.

 

Also when your Father has completed the defence could you please post it up here so we can suggest amendments etc to have a better chance of winning.

 

Is anyone able to take photographs of the signage at the entrance to the car park, and inside the car park too  especially  if those signs  differ from the one at the entrance.

 

Total P will provide details of their signs, but they cannot be trusted as they tend to put them where they would like them to be rather than where they actually are.

 

Proving that there signs are not where they say they are count against them in Court and causes doubt thereafter of the accuracy of anything else they say.

 

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Yes it is very difficult to read, it was sent by the court on the 4th February and received in the same post as the letter from BW legal which was the first time that the owner knew of a problem. My father checked to see where this violation had occurred and after speaking to the owner they sent the following to the court on the 20th Feb.

 

  "I have just received the enclosed notification of a parking infringement which occurred 25/5/19. Obviously I can't remember where I was on that day but I have visited the Purley Way Retail Park where the offence is alleged to have occurred and I can confirm that I have never shopped in any of the six shops in that retail park. Also there doesn't appear to be any parking restrictions apart from caravans."

 

A letter was then received dated 5th March not accepting this defence. Since then further letters have been received from BW legal firstly offering a reduction to £180 and then a further reduction to £142.87.

 

My father did send an email to BW Legal on the 20th April with photos of the Purley Way Retail Park and parking restrictions and after phoning them on the 3rd August to see if the problem had been resolved he received an email that same day stating:

 

"The photographs you provided previously are photographs of the main billboard displaying the shops located in the retail park. The signage which details the terms and conditions of parking are displayed throughout the car park. As a result of the breach of the Terms and  Conditions, the PCN was issued"

 

I will post my fathers photos and the photos provided by BW Legal which are for different car parks as soon as I can.

 

 

 

 

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Thank you for the quick response.

As it may be that the wrong car park has been selected by the fleecers, where you are at now, it would be better to leave them thinking they have the right car park.

 

IF the car was not in that car park on that day the claim must fail.

To prove that though may not be easy unless it can be shown that the photos that they  have of the car do not match the car park.

Or there is proof that the car was nowhere that car park on the day of the alleged offence.

 

Still no apparent action on the request asked for on post 5.

There does need to be a CPR request sent off quickly and for us to know when the case is to be heard.

Time can be of the essence  in these cases and it would be a pity if the deadlines were missed to enter the WS.

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The attached files contains 7 photos.

 

The top 3 are of Purley Way Retail Park clearly marked with that name, with the only available entrance to these 6 shops.

The remaining 4 are of the signage emailed to me, which they say has been there since January 2019 and has not changed since that date.  The PCN appears to show the same car park although it is different one than my 3 photos.

Merge Result_compressed.pdf

 

I do now know the car park they are calling Purley Way Retail Park which is a much larger car park and is over 1km from the car park I have photographed, which I already emailed to them in April.

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There is obviously a question of which car park the car was parked.

If they have got it wrong, and it can be proved [perhaps even a sworn affidavit stating that the car has never been parked in that car park] then case over and breach of GDPR can be claimed.

 

If the driver has the facts wrong and that PE have the right car park, then the signage at the entrance is insufficient to form a contact with motorists -it merely offers an invitation to treat which means effectively that the driver is not legally bound to accept any signs inside the car park.

 

It is important that the motorist is 100% sure that PE have the wrong car park.

If they realise in Court that PE are right then it seriously damages credibility and will be difficult to recover from.

 

Is there any chance that the driver can go to both car parks to ascertain where the alleged offence occurred.

The photos they have of the car should help to pinpoint the correct park.

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The email below was sent to me on the 3rd August from BW Legal

 

Further to our telephone conversation earlier today, please find enclosed photographs of the signage dated 24/01/2019.

 

Our client has confirmed that installation of the signage was completed on 24/01/2019 when the photographs were taken. They have also confirmed the signage was in situ at the time of the contravention, and our client still operates with the same restrictions.

 

The photographs you provided previously are photographs of the main billboard displaying the shops located in the retail park. The signage which details the terms and conditions of parking are displayed throughout the car park. As a result of the breach of the Terms and Conditions, the PCN was issued.

 

I trust the above clarifies our client’s position and I look forward to hearing from you in the hope of resolving matters.

 

 

This email below was sent to me on the 4th August 2020 from BW Legal

 

We write further to the above matter and your telephone conversation with my colleague yesterday. 

 

Please find enclosed a copy of the PCN and subsequent reminder notices sent to xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx isas requested.

 

Our Client has reconciled the images taken from the ANPR cameras (also enclosed), which show Vehicle entered the Car Park of Purely Way Retail Park at 10:17:56 and exited at 12:55:53. The total duration of the stay was 2 hours, 37 minutes which is in excess of the 2 hours maximum time permitted. Therefore, the PCN was issued correctly and our client’s position remains unchanged. 

 

Notwithstanding the above, our client is willing to resolve the matter amicably and would like to draw your attention to the without prejudice settlement proposal sent out to you. 

 

Should we not reach a settlement, we are instructed to proceed with our client claim with a view to obtain a County Court Judgment against you for the full balance owed, including costs and interest. 

 

We therefore look forward to hearing from you in the hope of concluding matters.

 

Since I emailed the photos of the Purley Way Retail Park to BW Legal on the 20th April the only correspondence from them was to sent 2 letters offering a discount on the original £204.10.  The last one dated 9th June 2020 had a 30% discount requesting a payment of £142.87.

 

The image below was dated 21st May 2020 which is a Notice of Transfer of Proceedings.

No other contact has been made except when they were phoned on the 3rd August, as 15 weeks had elapsed, to see whether they had closed the matter. 

 

No witness statement has been issued.

 

From the photos that they sent me I can see in one of their photos a store in the background which is not part of the Purley Way Retail Park so I know their photos are an entirely different car park.

 

Their last email has not been replied to.

Do we just now wait for them or the court to send a further letter?

 

 

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On the Claimform you should see the date that your defence has to be posted.

 

I am assuming that the Claimform has been received and its service acknowledged. 

 

It would be a great help if you could please complete the questionnaire on post 5.

 

I am hoping that as I have run out of questions that you might get round to answering.🙂🙂

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Name of the Claimant : Total Parking Solutions Limited

 

Claimants Solicitors: BW Legal

 

Date of issue – 04/02/2020

 

Date for AOS -  Not done

 

Date to submit Defence -  Submitted defence by returning page 4  duly completed by hand, of the claim form to the court 20/2/20 and acknowledged by them 27/2/20.

 

What is the claim for  £75-- monies due in respect of a PCN for a parking contravention which occurred on 25/05/2019 at 12:55:53 in the car park at Purley Way Retail Park Croydon.

 

What is the value of the claim?  £204

 

The POC says the following:

 

1. The Claimant's Claim is for the sum of £75.10 being monies due from the Defendant to the Claimant  in respect of a Parking Charge Notice (PCN) for a parking contravention which occurred on 25/05/2019 at 12:55:53 in the car park at Purley Way Retail Park, CROYDON.

in relation to a Kia xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.

 

2. The defendant was allowed 28 days from the PCN issue date to pay, but failed to do so.

 

3.Despite demand having been made the Defendant has failed to settle their outstanding liability.

 

4.The claim also includes Statutory Interest pursuant to section 69 of the County  Courts Act 1984 at a rate of 8% per annum (a daily rate of 5.10 from 25/05/2019 to 03/02/2020 being an amount of £5.10.

The claimant also claims £54.00 contractual cost as set out in the Terms and Conditions."

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As in what do they say the action that triggered the claim was, eg:

£160 for crossing the white line  or the cracks in the concrete on the approach road whilst parking in the bay in breach of T & C's

 

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Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

 

The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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well if you read like pcn claimform threads here on cag, you'll see failing to state what was actually contravened is rather fatal to their claim..

 

so you've had the n157 yet?

what date is the court case?

 

 

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Right well from now on you must stop all contact with the fleecers

 

you now send one final email

 

you state that your email ad is to no longer be used for any further communication to do with case number xxxxx

 

Else they'll be filing their WS at 1 min before when due ..full of lis that you cannot counter in yours

 

Dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

Our Client has reconciled the images taken from the ANPR cameras (also enclosed), which show Vehicle entered the Car Park of Purely Way Retail Park at 10:17:56 and exited at 12:55:53. The total duration of the stay was 2 hours, 37 minutes which is in excess of the 2 hours maximum time permitted. Therefore, the PCN was issued correctly and our client’s position remains unchanged. 

 

Notwithstanding the above, our client is willing to resolve the matter amicably and would like to draw your attention to the without prejudice settlement proposal sent out to you. 

 

Should we not reach a settlement, we are instructed to proceed with our client claim with a view to obtain a County Court Judgment against you for the full balance owed, including costs and interest. 

 

We therefore look forward to hearing from you in the hope of concluding matters.

 

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------The above is the last email they sent on the 4th August.

 

am I right in thinking if we don't contact BW Legal eventually they will either cancel this PCN or a letter will be sent from the County Court Hearing Centre to the owner of the vehicle arranging an allocation of a hearing.

 

At that point we supply a defence statement proving the errors that they have made. 

 

Also is that hearing something that my father can attend as the representative of the vehicles owner? 

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not sure why you ever contacted them in the 1st place once the court claim was issued

you should never do that anyway. regardless to a court claim or not.

 

what the court does or not is NOTHING to do with BW legal.

 

you have already filed a defence ...

next up is the exchange of witness statements and that will be by 14 days before the hearing date WHEN you get one from your local court.

 

upon that will be the above order and it will also order the claimant to pay £xx fee by xx date, if they don't then the claim will be struck out.

 

the named defendant on the claimform is the only person that will file the defendants WS and the only person that will be involved for the hearing..

 

type out the defence that was filed on the returned form please here too.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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This is the first time they knew of the alleged offence and after my father visited the Purley Way Retail Park and took photographs of the entrance he helped the elderly friend to write the following which was then signed 20/02.2020 and returned by post to the court.

 

 Defence filed.

 

"I have just received the enclosed notification of a parking infringement which occurred 25/5/19. Obviously I can't remember where I was on that day but I have visited the Purley Way Retail Park where the offence is alleged to have occurred and I can confirm that I have never shopped in any of the six shops in that retail park. Also there doesn't appear to be any parking restrictions apart from caravans."

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ok so ...........pretty much a nonsense defence which didn't address the particulars of claim

 

but obviously can and will be understood as something from someone that doesn't have a clue how to reply,

 

it will do in a way as it will show the court the defendant is a litigant in person and is probably of an age whereby they wouldn't be expected to be experienced in such matters.

 

i will guess that when the N180 came (regarding mediation and the details of his local court) he refused, as he should, to mediate?

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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When the first letters dated 04/02/20 arrived in the same post asking for £204 the owner thought it might be a mistake.

 

The BW Legal did not mention where or what offence had occurred and the court letter just said where the offence had occurred and the time it took place. (found out 3 weeks ago the time was the alleged time that the vehicle left a car park)

 

 to be fair, they didn't really know what the claim particulars were. 

my father just went to check where the Purley Way Retail Park was and the shops within it.

 

Once they realised that the vehicle had never been to that car park they suspected a mistake that would be rectified once they completed the court claim with the exact facts.

 

Unfortunately not, although I am surprised that BW Legal have twice offered to reduce the claim to firstly £180, and then £142.

 

Is that usual or are they aware there may be a problem after viewing the photographs? 

 

You are right when the meditation letter arrived it was just ignored.

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The reason that they often drop the price is that the parking company usually lose money when they go to Court.

 

By the time they have paid

the Court fees,

solicitors ,

search fees,

correspondence etc

 

there is no profit for them but they do have to take some people to Court to encourage others to pay up early.

 

they do offer reduced prices to get some people to pay up and then they make a profit especially when no money is owed anyway.

 

 

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Why did the defendant (the registered keeper)

not receive:

 

1.the original PCN

2.the Notice To Keeper

3. Several letters from a dca

4. Several letters from BW Legal

5. Letter Of Claim from BW

 

Before they received the claimform pack from Northants Bulk Court?

 

Has he moved or the car is not registered at his home address?

 

Dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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