Mortgage, CreditAgricole ,BirminghamMidshires, Halifa x, HBOS, CurtisSolicitors

[TideTurner]

Hi y'all,

 

I have been battling with the above for some 4.5 years.

I had a mortgage for £26,500 in 1990 and was repossessed in 2002 - Mortgage balance £31,500.

 

I have estimated that I have paid £9,500 in charges (have spreadsheet which I have provided to them) and paid approx.

£44k in interest and charges.

 

When repossessed, I was away from home and was not able to attend Court and was told by the Holyfax that I would only have 1 hour to remove 11.5 years of my possessions (approx. £58k of possessions). My family helped to remove but most had to be left behind, including personal items passed from my Grandparents, tools, furniture etc.

 

I've paid large lump sums to them under pressure and have all info about the account eg. computer logs, accounts, 'must foreclose as large loss on this case'.

I have a full history on the acquisition of Credit Agricole / Birmingham Midshires / Halifax / HBOS and believe I have gone through the scare barrier.

 

I don't receive any debt collection letters any more because as soon as I do I contact the Co. and tell them what they are doing is illegal under S40(a) Administration of Justice Act 1970, let me know if you need details.

 

My house was sold in feb 2002, Land Registry - Home page (free!) there were 6 properties sold the same as mine for £46,500.00, mine was sold to local builder for £19k.

My home was sold same year for £73,500.00 and is currently worth £125k.

They are claiming £11,500.00 as shortfall and £6,500.00 for MIG (Royal and Sun Alliance).

 

I'm about to issue and have been browsing this site and got lots of tips.

If I can help anyone I sure will.

 

Ever had the feeling you were had over?

They charged me for 9 valuations @£100.00, refused to give me identity of those who performed them,

turns out at least 2 done by themselves (Colleys)

and most of their 'legal charges' were done by in-house lawyers(for which they charged full legal charges).

 

Their favourite is 'Assess Fee' which they have refused to expand.

Thanks to all those who have updated this site, it's been most helpful.

 

To sum up

 

Mortgage 1990 - £26,500

Payments - £44,000

Sale of Property 2002 - £19,000 (sold same year £73,500)

Shortfall £11,500

MIG - £6.500

Loss of possessions - £58,000

 

Sorry about the rabble but this is the tip of the iceberg and want to go to go to Court ASAP

 

Need advice on calculating interest and proceedings above £5,000

 

 

About to issue,

 

Has anybody successfully reclaimed appreciation for property after repossession? I have also looked closely at breach of contract, invasion of privacy, unlawful provision of personal information, unlawful charges and interest at the statutory rate of 8%.

 

Also, I will be claiming for my possessions as I was given access to my home for just one hour to move all of my possessions, fixtures and fittings.

 

Has anybody else experienced this?

 

Tide

[PriorityOne]

I had a property re-possessed in 1994. Bought for £45,000, sold for £20,000. Mine is a complicated story and involved a relationship breakup, but to cut a long story short..... with negative equity, interest, charges, etc. I was pursued for £52,000, which was eventually halved between myself and the ex. I was unable to offer anything close to what was being asked, but made a token gesture payment each month, with all interest and charges stopped.

 

Five years later and with much negotiation, I made a full and final settlement payment of £500 and had £26,000 wiped away.

 

I'm not sure if this helps you or not, but it may be worth considering an approach to see what they would be willing to accept in full and final settlement of the debt. My property was sold for well under it's market value, but all that concerned me for all those years was a way to rid myself from the stress of having such a huge debt around my neck for the rest of my life. I was also too weak to fight any more.

 

If your property was repossessed, your lender may have claimed from the MIG in order to cover the amount that was lent to you in the first place. As I understand it, this means that they will have already recovered monies owed to them anyway.

 

If I have got this wrong guys, will someone please come on here to clarify ? Thanks.

[TideTurner]

Sounds like you have a similar case to my own.

 

Have you signed anything with respect to settlement - could yours be a cold case?

 

I believe (from the Holyfax) that they DID claim on a MIG. At the time, I had no knowledge that this existed. When I contacted Royal and Soon Oliance they had no knowledge of me.

 

I don't believe it ever existed and should they ever provide a copy of the contract (which they maintain I have no rights to see it - just to pay it) I'll get the forensics on it.

 

Sounds like you may have had a dodgy estate agent who sold your property who would have had first offer to sell your property. He would have known exactly who to sell it to.

 

As far as the lender is concerned, they are after a judgement and therefore a debt they can claim afterwards. Everything else is logistics.

 

I note your figures, you have paid over the odds, maybe it was sold to a friendly by the BS, and the lender then pursued you for interest and charges etc. which were applied unlawfully.

 

Everyone's happy except you (and your ex).

 

If you haven't signed anything which states "in full and final settlement" I would consider re-opening this given your new found knowledge. Think what the property is worth now - that represents a loss.

[PriorityOne]

Hi again,

 

All I know about my own situation is that my mortgage company could have hammered me for a whole lot more if they had been aware of my true circumstances at the time they found me. Believe me, I have no wish to open that particular can of worms ever again and I still believe that I got off very lightly. My token payments were miniscule (!) and the offer of £500 was accepted in full and final settlement of a £26,000 debt. It was then removed from Experian's files and I was able to sleep at night at last.

 

When Holyfax told you that you had no right to see the contract, they probably meant the one between themselves and the MIG company. My property was sold because it was impossible for the lender to locate either myself or my ex... so for me there was no-one to blame, accept for my ex. I knew what I was doing when I left, so was aware of the potential consequences. They did what they had to do, but I knew they had claimed on the MIG because the mortgage was 95%. I am not sure whether your MIG company would have your name - just the address of the property.

 

It's a bit hard to advise you because I don't know your circumstances, but I would be reluctant to pay them any more large sums of money, as you have said. I provided a breakdown of income/outgoings at the time, with the view that if I wasn't earning it, then they couldn't have it. I made a token gesture which was accepted because I was unemployed at the time. If they had taken me to court, they could not have got any more. However, if they had been aware of my true circumstances in terms of assets, then they could have destroyed me completely. Throughout, I never lied, but was very economical with the truth. Very.

 

You may have more to lose by pursuing your case for lost equity. I have never heard of anyone being successful in bringing a claim, but if you feel that you cannot move on without a fight, then maybe it's what you need to do.

[TideTurner]

I appreciate your honesty, in your circumstances it's probably better to let sleeping dogs lie. I can't move on without resolution which, so far has been a huge fight. I refuse to be intimidated any more, to the point I am prepared to risk all I have to stop this outrageous [problem]. I want the chance to expose these people and what they do - I spent six months being physically sick as soon as I woke up in the morning. I get the feeling you know how that feels. I'm not paying them any money at the moment and don't intend to, and want every penny due to me from these highly educated thugs.

[PriorityOne]

It is a difficult situation and I know exactly how you feel. You should not continue to be intimidated though. They have a straightforward choice; to accept monthly payments from you or not. It's better for yourself in the long run to pay something because if it goes to court, it shows goodwill on your part, but keep it very, very small. Make sure that your income/expenditure sheet is balanced in your favour - my household bills were grossly exaggerated, but I was never asked to prove it and how could I anyway ? If you have another mortgage, do not say anything. You can describe it as "housing costs". Not a lie.. mine never checked.

 

At the time (1997), I considered certain things to be none of their business, such as bank account numbers, etc. If it was a court request, then I would have complied, but it wasn't.

 

It is important to remember - and for everyone to remember - that owing money is not a criminal offence in itself. Lenders, debt collectors, bailiffs, etc. will all try to make you feel that it is by threatening this and that, but it's not. By making small payments, you are upholding the fact that the debt is yours, which a court needs to see if it goes that far. I doubt it will ever get to court though, if these payments are upheld. Also, a judge will know that they have collected on the MIG.

 

I can understand your grievance and I would - and have - felt the same, but while you are investigating how to bring a case against them for stuff they have done/not done in the past, remember to protect yourself at the same time. Hopefully you can turn the tables on them just a but, if not a lot. Make them think you have nothing more to give. You could also write and ask what they would accept in full and final settlement... personally, I think they have had enough out of you already, but in order to get your life back, this may be the only way forward. My lenders contacted me several times wanting several thousand to settle. It took 3 years for them to agree to £500 and I think it was because they were fed up collecting the miniscule token payments from me every month. It would have cost them more in admin. costs and stamps than it cost me to send it to them !

 

If there are others who have been in this situation, we would appreciate your input as your experiences may be different. There must be others out there who have suffered the nightmare of repossession and can advise ? We need to learn from each other.

[stan5131]

Tide, I am fighting a very similar case for my sister. This is with the Bradford and Bingley Building Society (please have a look at the thread). She and her husband were divorced and she left the property around 1994. In 2000 it was repossessed and they contacted her for the shortfall as they could not find him. She has been paying this back at £50 per month since 2000. The shortfall was nearly £5k. The house was bought in 1992 for £23,000 and sold in 2000 for £18,000. We have done the SAR request but the information sent is limited and unintelligible. After a fight, we got copies of two valuations, one from themselves and one from Colleys. Are Colleys anything to do with B&B? Both valuations say property was in average condition, so how was it valued at less than bought for 8 years later? Any help or light you can shed would be most appreciated. We got a copy of her schedule of payments which dont make sense of add up on what she has paid since repossession. There is a column titled 'MIG'. Every time she pays £50, £10 goes into this column. I know this means mortgage indemnity guarantee, but why is she paying this after repossession? I think our cases are very similar.

[TideTurner]

I'd start with putting more pressure on them for information they haven't provided. Also look at this site - How Much Did It Sell For (just enter her old postcode) and make printouts of all results.

 

How much did it sell for?

 

The Land Registry also holds details of property by postcode and records details of all sales on a quarterly basis.

 

This will give a comparison of sales of other properties in the same area at the same time. Also, you can get a report online for £3.00 which tells you who bought the property and how much they paid. Find out which Estate Agent sold the "property in possession". Mine was sold to a local builder, who I have highlighted. Still looking for links with the Estate Agent though.

 

Colley's were purchased by Halifax in 1994. Don't know if B&B are associated with Halifax. I have vigorously tried to obtain details of those who performed valuations on my property as the named were blanked out. I found out another way and Colley's are right up there.

 

It is likely that an MIG was taken out by B&B to cover any loss and is effectively insurance. The MIG provider (in my case Royal and Soon Reliance) made threats via Curtis Solicitors to recover money they paid the Halifax after repossession. I have challenged this and intend to counter-claim. The Halifax refused to provide a copy of the agreement as I was not a party to it. Why then am I expected to pay it?

 

Once disputed the RSA have stopped recovery proceedings. They threaten you and if you pay they'll let you. My case will be up soon and I intend to ask the Court to examine the validity of these contracts. I'll then take the matter further.

 

Ask them for a copy of the MIG. Also ask when it was taken out, who was party to it and why you are being asked to pay it. My guess is you won't be under any obligation.

 

Where you have received gobbledy gook after your SAR write again and point out they are out of time, and that you want descriptions of all debits made to your sisters account.

 

I put mine in a spreadsheet and next to each charge left two columns headed "Name of Supplier" and "Description of Charge". I followed up with a phone call and told them where I have paid for a service I want a full description or an immediate refund.

 

Then I found this site.....

[TideTurner]

What's the link to your sisters thread?

[TideTurner]

A better link for house prices

 

MousePrice.Com

Cheers

Tide

[stan5131]

Tide I am still reading your post and looking at the house price site. If you look in my threads started by me, you should see one for old bradford and bingley mortgage x

[stan5131]

Tide. thanks for reading my thread and the advice. I have posted a letter which I intend to fax tomorrow. These people just do not want to give you any information do they? Have you got a court date, if so when?

[TideTurner]

Just reading your post and will suggest a few amendments - hang on!

[stan5131]

Tide, have you got a court date yet?

[TideTurner]

No, I am lodging my Claim N1 this week. I was kicked out two weeks before xmas, so it's my anniversary!

 

I'll be sticking to the dates and not allowing for any parties- been a long time comin'

[stan5131]

really sorry to hear that Tide. I should only a couple of weeks behind you. We are filing ours on 5th Jan. It is apparent from their arrogance so far that they have no intention of telling us what the charges were. We are going to have to prize it out of them.

[TideTurner]

Apologies, I didn't see a letter before action on your thread, have you sent one? If not you are still at the SAR stage.

 

Let me know if you haven't - there are templates on the site and one of my own which you can adapt.

[stan5131]

They 40 days SAR request runs out on 28th December. I am sending my letter including your amendments tomorrow by fax. On 28th Dec they have failed to comply with our SAR request. They are not going to comply, they are just being awkward and unhelpful. If you read my thread, you may have seen that my sister spoke to them and they were rude and treated her like something on the bottom of their shoe. They were so smug and arrogant. They said things like "and why do you want to try and get out of paying this debt now?" She came off the phone feeling like a criminal.

[stan5131]

I am trying to find a link between Colleys and B&B. If B&B are linked to Halifax then that would help. Also, they used Hammond Suddards solicitors and there are loads of litigation fees, but I cant get to to answer the simple question of whether this was done in house or not.

[TideTurner]

Birmingham Midshires is a commercial bank in the United Kingdom, a subsidiary of Halifax plc (part of HBOS). It is headquartered at Pendeford Business Park,Wolverhampton, England and has offices throughout England. Previously it was a building society, known as the Birmingham Midshires Building Society.

The Birmingham Midshires was formed in 1986 by the merger of the Birmingham and Bridgewater and the Midshires Building Societies. These societies could trace their routes back to 1849 and were themselves formed by the mergers of the following societies: Liverpool Building Society, Wolverhampton and Mercia, Bristol Equitable Permanent Benefit, Swansea & Gower Permanent, and the Warrington Workingmens' Permanent.

In 1999, the Birmingham Midshires Building Society agreed to a takeover bid from the Royal Bank of Scotland. However the deal collapsed when Halifax plc tabled a more lucrative offer. Halifax itself became a part of HBOS plc when it merged with the Bank of Scotland in 2001.

On 15 September 2005 Birmingham Midshires announced it was planning to close 48 of its 67 branches, through a phased programme concluding in March 2006, and the conversion of the remaining outlets to the Halifax brand. Customers were given the option of banking at their nearest Halifax branch and the 470 full and part time BM employees are to be offered an alternative role at the company or within the wider Halifax branch network.

Today the Birmingham Midshires remains a separate division within Halifax plc, and offers a range of specialist mortgage and savings products. When Birmingham Midshires became part of the Group in April 1999, it had savings balances of £5.9 billion and mortgage assets of £9.2 billion. BM savings balances have doubled since then to £12 billion; mortgage assets have more than trebled to over £32 billion.

 

[edit] Source

 

• [http://www.askbm.co.uk/ BM website press release "Birmingham Midshires Business Strategy" 15 Sept 2005

[TideTurner]

Stansfield, focus your efforts on all information you HAVEN'T received. Colley's are a High Street firm of conveyancers, owned by the HBOS Group. Who were the legal services provided by? Were these listed in your original statements as "Solicitors Fees" or do you believe you were led to believe the excessive charge was because the services provided were from a firm of Solicitors, when they were from an internal department? Insist on details of all charges made - you sound like you can hold your own. I telephoned the Lender after each letter and insisted on answers. When they said they didn't have the information available, I said I'll hold while they get it. I made notes of all telephone calls, dates, times, who I spoke to, what was said and intend to claim for these. If you've paid for it, find out what you've paid for.

 

Then go get 'em.

[Nightmare4banks]

TideTurner in reply to your post:

 

1.You should be able to sue the mortgage company for the shortfall between the market value at the time of the sale less the actual selling price that was acheived plus simple interest i.e. 8 % per annum - County Court Rate.I would have thought from the date of the sale.However,a person with more legal knowledge should be able to help you more here.

 

2.In order to assist to justify your claim you should mention the following precedent case that went to the Court of Appeal:

 

Skipton Building Society V Bratley & Another

 

3.The link to this case can be found here:

 

http://www.swarb.co.uk/lisc/Banki20002000.php

 

Basically,in your case the mortgage company was negligent in failing to obtain the maximum price for you at the time.

 

4.Regarding the loss of your possessions:

 

You would probably need supporting evidence on your part.

 

5.Regarding Colley's I think they were owned by Bradford &Bingley Group then sold onto the HBOS - Halifax Bank of Scotland who incidently own Birmingham Midshires.

 

If you need any help regarding working out a valuation for the property,let me know.

 

6.IN ORDER TO APPLY THE ABOVE MENTIONED CASE PROPERLY

 

You should look at the values of all the other properties that sold in your postal code area or closest proximity to it and then take the average price.Of course taking into account the type and condition of the property i.e.terraced,end terraced and semi-detached etc.

 

7.Regarding any undisclosed information,do a DSAR - Data Subject Access Request and send £10 to each party(template letter can be found in the library on this forum).Any company has 40 days to comply.You will also nee to send proof of id and proof of address i.e.copy of passport & copy of utility bill.Otherwise the company would be within its rights not to send you the requested information.Do not give any company an excuse to stall or delay in any shape or form.

 

I hope you find this information useful.

 

If you have any questions,just ask.

 

Keep us posted.

 

All the best!

[TideTurner]

Many thanks, the very fact that somebody looking at this is in my corner is very reassuring - after 4 years of people telling me I'm fighting a losing battle.

 

I have put two claims in my N1, one for the shortfall and one for loss of appreciation.

 

My property quadrupled in price in the first 12 months after sale, and as the cause of the repossession was brought about by the defendants, I intend to argue that had I remained in the property, I would have an asset worth four times 6+ times what it was 'disposed of' for. This represents a loss.

 

If I am to be placed in the same position prior to any wrongdoing, the defendants would have to purchase a similar property in the same are, which would now cost £120,000.00. This represents my loss.

 

There are also other things I will be claiming for like Invasion of Privacy (Articl 8, Human Rights Act 1998). Prior to repossession, they sent around somebody who peered through my windows and letterbox, quizzed my neighbours, made notes and forwarded them to Birmingham Midshires, who placed the contents of my hallway into their computer notes for all to see!

 

This practice is called a 'walk-by' and is an assessment of the property inside and out.

 

How would they react if I walked up to their front door, opened the letterbox, made a note of the contents and posted them onto an intranet or website. My partner is shocked. They won't give me the dates or details of who attended. What if we were having a private moment when the letterbox opened?

 

Sick, and completely invasive - and totally illegal

 

Sorry for ranting!

[stan5131]

Tide and Nightmare, yes it is very reassuring to find someone fighting a similar battle. We are not alone and can help each other along the way x

[stan5131]

What is interesting about Colleys, is that if they WERE owned by Bradford and Bingley at the time, then they did not do an independent valuation.