Your parking ticket may be unlawful

[demon_x_slash]

You don't need to appeal if it was a private car park - read the sticky at the top of the Parking forum for what to do. It's civil, and a [problem], and you should not pay full-stop.

[Bailiffchaser]

try this website for parking problems :

London Motorists Action Group

[fuzzywuzzy]

hello

I have asked the council for a copy of my parking ticket and they have sent a printed A4 paper with details centered. I no longer have the ticket so have to assume its the same, but its not signed as its a basic print out.

 

I wanted to challenge them on the lack of road signs and i had informed them of this when i appealed against the fine.

 

Since i have been issued and paid, they have nailed 2ft by 3ft yellow and black signs on the trees along this road.

 

Can i request the date the signs were erected to see the time between events.

 

As they reply along the lines of " and we will look into this no further"

 

So How many questions and how much info can i ask for.

 

Fuzzy

[Timsta]

Can i request the date the signs were erected to see the time between events.

 

Yep, as they are council and work for the public you can issue disclosure under the Freedom of Information Act.

 

 

You'd be amazed at the kind of stuff you can find out. That is a truly great act!

[00765]

Hi

 

I legally parked my car for about a week on a side road as i was abroad.

 

When i went to get my car today I found that it had been clamped. When i rang DKB as it was their Tel No. which was plastered on my car's windscreen. DKB said that i had not paid a congestion charge fee from May 2006 that letters had been sent to what is my previous address and now i owe £700 to get the car unclamped or they will tow the car away.

 

I never received any letter. I don't even recall driving into London on the date they are stating. But now if i don't pay today or tomorrow, my car will be towed away & the fee will probably rise to over £1,000 for a £10 congestion charge fee. Is this right is there anything i can do? How do i know that DKB are not fake or whatever?

 

I'm already fighting my mortgage company etc & just don't have £700 yet i need my car!!!!

[fuzzywuzzy]

Yep, as they are council and work for the public you can issue disclosure under the Freedom of Information Act.

 

 

You'd be amazed at the kind of stuff you can find out. That is a truly great act!

 

Do you think the signs in relation to the date i had the ticket could help me prove my point, that the signs were not clear enough.

 

I would not mind a refund, but its the principle that realy drives me on.

Im sure I've got other things i should be doing

[Zamzara]

Hi

 

I legally parked my car for about a week on a side road as i was abroad.

 

When i went to get my car today I found that it had been clamped. When i rang DKB as it was their Tel No. which was plastered on my car's windscreen. DKB said that i had not paid a congestion charge fee from May 2006 that letters had been sent to what is my previous address and now i owe £700 to get the car unclamped or they will tow the car away.

 

I never received any letter. I don't even recall driving into London on the date they are stating. But now if i don't pay today or tomorrow, my car will be towed away & the fee will probably rise to over £1,000 for a £10 congestion charge fee. Is this right is there anything i can do? How do i know that DKB are not fake or whatever?

 

I'm already fighting my mortgage company etc & just don't have £700 yet i need my car!!!!

 

I would start your own thread to get this noticed better.

[00765]

Thanks Zamzara, I will start a threat, sorry if i hijacked this thread

[jackass1978]

Can anyone please find anything wrong with the attached copies of the PCN?

 

 

the story behind this:

I usually go to drop the Mrs. off to work in the morning and pick her up in the evening, have been doing so for the past 4 months or so, at the exact same place. Last week i recieved a PCN saying that I had stopped on a pedestrian crossing marked by zigzags and hence the fine. I paid up realising that I had been making a mistake and have since stopped dropping the mrs off at that place. However, I recieved another PCN in the mail same offence, and on inquiring it so happens i have 2 more coming in the next few days. Are there any chances of getting of this one? or will i have to pay it all up? 240 quids in a week is quiet a sting!

Would appreciate any comments or/and advice/help recieved from you all.

thanks

[rogerebaker]

I think this may have a fatal floor.

 

Give me a while and Ill look it up

[rogerebaker]

Im a bit unsure

 

My best advice is to register with PePiPoo: Helping the motorist to get justice which is a forum just like this but deals in PCNs.

 

If you scan the PCN on there they will give you some great advice

 

Rog

[green_and_mean]

cheers pat....

xipetotec46...I will scan as soon as I can get the damn scanner working again....lol

The council went out and took some pics of the location....

They seem to show my car was not on the new yellow lines but the old ones...

plus the ones the traffic wardens took have no date or time stamp....

Am I right in saying these cannot be used as evidence without this??

they show car on a bit of old yellow lines with ticket attached, but are deceiving the angle they were taken...

I feel like I am taking everyone on for everything wrong in my life....lol

I am just trying to force the council to look into this properly...

If I did park on the yellow lines I would just pay, but don't feel I should as I was parked legally.....

cheers....

Russ

 

New or old lines is of no consequence unless by old you mean they had been removed by the council? There is no legal requirment for the complete line to be the same age just within the legal requirements. Is there a T bar between the lines if not it is one continous restriction. The photos do not need a date stamp as they are for your benefit the ones used in ajudication are electronically matched with the pcn at time of issue. Without seeing the lines or TMO I would suggest the best bet would be to argue the lines where faded below the legal standard.

[221b]

Hello

 

Just received a PCN yesterday for parking outside my house.

 

 

It's a 1 hour limit for free and I simply forgot my car was there ( I normally move it every day to a nearbyish street) and so got a ticket.

 

Wondering if it might be invalid as although it says Date of Issue clearly, it does not say Date of Contravention.

 

Also, the 'Please turn over' instruction is below the perforated tear off bit, which I understand is then not part of the ticket so I'm not obliged to turn over and ahem, read the instructions...

 

Any thoughts?

 

I have scanned in the the reverse as well if that's needed...

 

Thanks in advance.

 

221b

[green_and_mean]

Hello

 

Just received a PCN yesterday for parking outside my house.

 

 

It's a 1 hour limit for free and I simply forgot my car was there ( I normally move it every day to a nearbyish street) and so got a ticket.

 

Wondering if it might be invalid as although it says Date of Issue clearly, it does not say Date of Contravention.

 

Also, the 'Please turn over' instruction is below the perforated tear off bit, which I understand is then not part of the ticket so I'm not obliged to turn over and ahem, read the instructions...

 

Any thoughts?

 

I have scanned in the the reverse as well if that's needed...

 

Thanks in advance.

 

221b

 

The date of contravention is clearly stated on the PCN below where it says High st. The amount and discount period are all on the main body of the pcn as are all the other legal requirements.

[221b]

Thanks Green & Mean

 

I understood the PCN had to use the phrase "Date of contravention" as well as "Date of Issue". I read this earlier on in this specific thread, hence my assumption.

 

Is this not correct then?

 

Many thanks

[BerryN]

I was given a parking ticket but they have put the wrong colour of the car down - it says the car is blue when it is black. Also, it doesn't appear to comply with MondeoST24 vbmenu_register("postmenu_33074", true); post of April 2006.... What can I do because obviously I don't want to pay it!

[green_and_mean]

Thanks Green & Mean

 

I understood the PCN had to use the phrase "Date of contravention" as well as "Date of Issue". I read this earlier on in this specific thread, hence my assumption.

 

Is this not correct then?

 

Many thanks

 

No the date of contravention is all that is required, so stating you where seen parked on a restricted bus stop on 2nd nov 2008 for example fulfills this requirement. As long as it makes clear what date you parked wrongly and what date the ticket was issued the wording is not set in law, hence some say date of notice others date of issue.

[fuzzywuzzy]

could have been another car with a copy of your plates.

But if you ignore it, as you would not have recieved it if it was not your car... then you would have a great battle to prove you did not recieve it.

 

I have seen kids removing tickets from car windows , wonder what happens when you don't pay with in the dates stated.

[patdavies]

erroneous post

[go for it]

last week got a ticket for parking 15 mins over in a council car park

i found this thread and have been looking over the last few days as far as i could see that ticket was lawful ,i remembered that i had saved a ticket i got from june last year when looking at it i found that it only had one date on it .

i went and paid the ticket from last week today and showed them the old ticket saying i wanted my money back they said i would have to submit an initial objection ,is there any advice anyone can give as i have got to try and get the money back

[Thunderstorm]

Here is a pretty good [problem] presently being perpetrated by Brent Parking.

Recently, parts of Brent that don't fall under any CPZs or indeed, any parking restrictions but are close to Wembley Stadium, were designated "Event Day Parking Zones".

 

This means, they painted special bays for parking (on the footways), but they did stress - and I have the document printed by them proving this - that the existence of these bays is exclusively for Event Day use.

I must mention that parking on the footways IS allowed, the roads are very narrow here and we have been parking without hindrance in this manner for the past 9 years!!

 

This means we ALL need to have special parking permits for Event Days.

These have been issued to us. They are displayed.

There are signs up explaining what the bays are for - and their use.

Nothing says to park in them AT ALL TIMES or else.

Only on Event Days

 

So far, so good.

We have all the permits, and keep an eye out for these Event Days.

Remember, this is NOT a CPZ street.

However, the Brent Parking Wardens have now taken to sneaking into these UNRESTRICTED areas late at night on "Non Event Days" and sticking parking tickets on cars NOT parked in the Event Day parking bays.

 

The tickets claim a "Footway Parking Contravention".

 

The snag is - and you can check this now by googling "Brent Footway parking" - by Brent Parkings very own admission on their web site - the very areas being relentlessly harrassed by their overzealous Parking Wardens/ Attendants/ [problem] Artists - (delete as appropriate) in the middle of the night are Footway Parking Restrictions EXEMPT.

 

I live on Highmead Crescent. Wembley.

I got a parking ticket on 25/08/2007 at 10.36pm, parked on the same footway I have been parked on for the last 9 years.

 

Recap, that's a parking ticket for parking on the footway of a road which is exempt from footway parking restrictions / regulations - what have you.

 

This sordid insidious spectacle has been repeated up and down the street - usually on the more expensive cars - and is entirely at random.

It is ALWAYS done very late at night.

 

In my case, the ticket wasn't even fixed to the car, but thrown into the neighbours garden - just to maximise their profits.

 

Sadly, some uninformed residents of my street, scared by the wording of the NTO's they have received have meekly handed over their hard earned cash. £80 by the NTO stage. Nice little earner, and very illegal.

 

This is nothing more than legalised mugging.

 

I am of course contesting this ticket.

Does anyone have extra advice on what to do about naming and shaming Brent Parking?

 

Thunderstorm.

[green_and_mean]

What do the signs look like can you show a pic of the street? Many councils give footway exemptions but only in marked bays the sign is blue showing a white car with wheels on kerb. Where on the sign is the event day only wording?

[JonCris]

Thunderstorm Contact your local councillor & the media. These crooks hate being exposed in the press

[Thunderstorm]

There are NO such (Footway) parking signs.

There never have been. The roads are very narrow indeed.

 

Only the EV signs indicating that only permit holders may park in the bays on Event Days have sprung up. Before them, there was nothing.

 

Clearly, the marked bays exist for that sole purpose (Event Day Parking).

I do have the pamphlet sent out to residents by Brent Parking Confirming this some months ago!

 

There are no all blue signs telling you exactly HOW you must park your car on the footway.

 

And there are NO signs saying all cars MUST in Parking Bays Only.

 

We are just being harrassed, abused, mugged, because Brent Parking is probably being run by people who have the utmost contempt for the very residents they are supposed to be serving.

No doubt, they are on to a very nice little earner.

I wonder if their pay is linked to the number of tickets issued?

Now there's an incentive. :o

 

I also believe the sending out of NTOs on the basis of these illegal parking tickets actually contravenes the Data Protection Act, because the personal data of the alleged "defaulting" resident car owners is being acquired under false pretences!!

And only God knows what happens to that Data, already acquired under false pretences by an organisation that is breaking the law itself to get it in the first place.

 

I am almost certain there is a law against this kind of behaviour and heads in Brent Parking would (and should) roll if there was a Lawyer brave enough to take them on and sue the pants off them for knowingly extorting money from law abiding residents under false pretences.

 

I personally categorically object to living like this in the 21st century.

This is totally unacceptable, and whoever is overseeing this should be named and shamed in the local and national papers.

All the residents on footway exempt streets should have their illegally extorted fines returned to them with grovelling apologies.

Brent Parking, hiding behind "ignorance of their own laws and regulations" should not in any way be accepted. Indeed, they should hang their heads in shame.

Perhaps they should even be properly investigated for any further trangressions against Law Abiding Residents who just happen to own cars.

 

The level of contempt Brent Parking has for the residents of Highmead Crescent and other similar streets is simply astounding.

 

I would love to contact London Tonight News and have Brent Parkings insidious behaviour highlighted in the 6 o'clock news.

There is NO acceptable excuse for financially raping the local resident motorists with impunity.

 

Better still, I would love to see an MP actually spearhead a new bill through parliament, forcing any council's "Parking Authority" (who issues "False" or "Illegal" Parking Tickets), forced to pay compensation to the very people they have tried to "white-collar" mug.

£400 compensation per attempted financial mugging to each aggrieved victim would soon put a stop to their underhanded behaviour.

 

Is there an MP in the house actually brave enough to table such a motion and make it happen?

 

What I find galling is the fact that a large number of people have committed NO offences, yet are being STUNG for £80 a pop.

They are being unsavourily threatened into paying.

And all for parking legally in front of their own homes.

As they have done, for anything up to and beyond the past 9 years without hindrance.

 

Brent Parking - Hang your heads in shame!!

 

Only in 21st Century UK. You couldn't make it up.

[khb]

There are NO such (Footway) parking signs.

There never have been. The roads are very narrow indeed.

 

Only the EV signs indicating that only permit holders may park in the bays on Event Days have sprung up. Before them, there was nothing.

 

Clearly, the marked bays exist for that sole purpose (Event Day Parking).

I do have the pamphlet sent out to residents by Brent Parking Confirming this some months ago!

 

There are no all blue signs telling you exactly HOW you must park your car on the footway.

 

And there are NO signs saying all cars MUST in Parking Bays Only.

 

We are just being harrassed, abused, mugged, because Brent Parking is probably being run by people who have the utmost contempt for the very residents they are supposed to be serving.

No doubt, they are on to a very nice little earner.

I wonder if their pay is linked to the number of tickets issued?

Now there's an incentive. :o

 

I also believe the sending out of NTOs on the basis of these illegal parking tickets actually contravenes the Data Protection Act, because the personal data of the alleged "defaulting" resident car owners is being acquired under false pretences!!

And only God knows what happens to that Data, already acquired under false pretences by an organisation that is breaking the law itself to get it in the first place.

 

I am almost certain there is a law against this kind of behaviour and heads in Brent Parking would (and should) roll if there was a Lawyer brave enough to take them on and sue the pants off them for knowingly extorting money from law abiding residents under false pretences.

 

I personally categorically object to living like this in the 21st century.

This is totally unacceptable, and whoever is overseeing this should be named and shamed in the local and national papers.

All the residents on footway exempt streets should have their illegally extorted fines returned to them with grovelling apologies.

Brent Parking, hiding behind "ignorance of their own laws and regulations" should not in any way be accepted. Indeed, they should hang their heads in shame.

Perhaps they should even be properly investigated for any further trangressions against Law Abiding Residents who just happen to own cars.

 

The level of contempt Brent Parking has for the residents of Highmead Crescent and other similar streets is simply astounding.

 

I would love to contact London Tonight News and have Brent Parkings insidious behaviour highlighted in the 6 o'clock news.

There is NO acceptable excuse for financially raping the local resident motorists with impunity.

 

Better still, I would love to see an MP actually spearhead a new bill through parliament, forcing any council's "Parking Authority" (who issues "False" or "Illegal" Parking Tickets), forced to pay compensation to the very people they have tried to "white-collar" mug.

£400 compensation per attempted financial mugging to each aggrieved victim would soon put a stop to their underhanded behaviour.

 

Is there an MP in the house actually brave enough to table such a motion and make it happen?

 

What I find galling is the fact that a large number of people have committed NO offences, yet are being STUNG for £80 a pop.

They are being unsavourily threatened into paying.

And all for parking legally in front of their own homes.

As they have done, for anything up to and beyond the past 9 years without hindrance.

 

Brent Parking - Hang your heads in shame!!

 

Only in 21st Century UK. You couldn't make it up.

 

Thunderstorm, I agree with your sentiments. However, In my mind this needs to be taken much further then just shaming the council.

 

I telephoned Which? lawyers yesterday re a PCN issued without a Traffic Management Order. The lawyers advice was to appeal to PATAS in a timely manner. If the PATAS arbitrator decides against the appellant then the next step would be a Judicial Review. That's the 1991 Traffic act side of things covered. However...

 

How do you hold responsible your council enforcement officers and their contractors? Let us remember that one of the core problems of private enforcement for profit is the fact that very efficient plc's are contracted 'lawfully' to sell their products which are 'parking tickets' and the bonus product the 'clamp'. They have nothing else to offer. Must not forget that this system also feeds the Bailiffs. Apparently it is a good business. They are all NOT interested in community issues.

 

You need to contact the Brent Street Scene & Transport department and request the Traffic Management Order for your road. Study this to reassure yourself that you are within your rights. Then contact the Brent Enforcement Team and ask them whether they have instructed their enforcement contractors to enforce that location. Depending on the answer you will have reason to write an official complaint against 1. Illegal enforcement of Bent councils enforcement contractor and 2. possibly a complaint against the Brent Enforcement officer for malfeasence or misconduct in office. It is probably best to get all responses in writing.

 

An official complaint should be made to the council referring the Abuse of Powers Act. If the council then does not deal with this to your satisfaction then the matter needs to referred to the Local Government Ombudsman for a Local Government Review. The next step would then be the High Court which is not free costing thousands of pounds.

 

As this is the process necessary to hold local councils and their officers responsible I think that this should be done. However, apart from the enormous waste of personal time, need for legal knowledge, substantial funds may be required to go all the way. I just hope, that apart of ton's of determination that you also have some very angry, public spirited and well heeled neighbours to see this through with you.

 

Sadly, most individuals just get angry, find a way to get the PCN annulled leaving it at that or pay up and resign themselves to the feeling that nothing can be done. I have the feeling that the powers to be know and rely on this.

I have yet to find like minded individuals that are prepared to take this all the way.

 

One of the core problems is that central government allows local councils to delegate their responsibility of enforcement for profit. As we know well by now this Private Public Partnership leads to wholesale abuse of the public. Councils effectively act like a sales force driving business into the arms of the enforcement contractors they have hired. And those plc's are ALL very profitable multinational multimillion pound companies. Yet, parking or the lack of it is a sensitive community issue which needs to be dealt with sensitively by councils for and on behalf of local communities.

 

SO - why do so many of us allow government and local government to trample all over us causing so much upset?