Idem Claim Form - halifax / Lloyds TSB credit cards***Claim Discontinued***

[yodabug]

Thanks DX - that’s what I thought

 

And yes agreed

[dx100uk]

thread title updated

[yodabug]

Good morning all.

 

I have recieved a response from the fresh Idem CCA request

- the Lloyd’s one is the same they sent before ( so no change there so therefore not posted here ) and the Halifax CCA - here it is.

Just this page and a reconstituted fresh agreement.

 

I’m actually astonished - what even is this ?

 

Thanks

 

Hi all apologies in advance - its uploaded in wrong orientation. and I couldnt amend it.

 

Hi Andy - thanks for your quick response. I am confused by this reconstituted agreements so I Need to do more reading on reconstituted agreements. Knowledge is very flaky.

 

Here is the rest of the documents they sent me.

 

They stated in the letter ' we enclose a reconstituted copy of the agreement, copy of the terms and conditions and a statement of account.....'

 

Thanks again

 

Im so sorry i dont know how that ' barclaycard PDF ' got mixed up in that post please delete that.

 

Thanks

merged.pdf

[AndyOrch]

Its not reconstituted...its the original ...albeit incomplete ...no page 3 or T&Cs

[AndyOrch]

Mmmmm..... helps us if you upload the full documents instead of 1 page...then yes that part is reconstituted

[yodabug]

Thanks Andy - will get studying to find out what this means if and when it goes to court.

[yodabug]

I am awaiting a SAR back from Halifax.

 

Am I correct in thinking that they need a true signed copy agreement to be enforceable in a court - as it is pre 2007 ?

 

This has no signature on it whatsoever.

 

Thanks again.

[renegadeimp]

Pre 2007 agreements, they would need a copy of the original one along with terms and conditions at inception and any changes made through the life of the account.

[yodabug]

Thanks very much Renegadeimp - i am trawling though countless cases - and cannot find a definitive answer to ' does the agreement need to be signed ?' to be legally enforceable in court ?

 

Thanks

[dx100uk]

documents merged to one file in post 28.

that's an application sheet

and clearly says please return the inc agreement back with you sig.

 

t&c's are from oct 08 no tick box done and I bet you hidden details are in a differing type font...all bogroll.

[yodabug]

Small Donation made.

 

Thanks DX for tidying that up - much appreciated.

 

Just to add to my learning curve - how can you tell the dates of the T&C's ? is it the end line of the document ' TBTFCH TH1R 09/07 - 10/08 ' ?

 

Thanks

[dx100uk]

yep

 

use the search CAG box of the top redtoolbar

 

Halifax CCa return.

or like words.

[yodabug]

Hi All,

 

i had a letter today back from Idem , remarkably quick really, with the following documents ( notice of assignments ) - in response to my CPR 31.14 letter.

 

I have never been sent these before.

And from what i have read DCA's can just print these off will-nilly with the correct letter heads, ' fake 'NOA's if you like, and there is pretty much nothing I can do to prove otherwise ?

They continue the letter saying they will endeavour to find the other documents requested blah blah blah.......

 

Im a bit stumped here - I guess I just have to ' take this one on the chin '?

 

All letters are deffo from the same printer - same paper - same typeface etc. Brand spanking new.

 

Any advice much appreciated.

 

( I do have the SAR from LLoyds in my possesion, and they are 100% not in the SAR. )

NOAReturn.pdf

[dx100uk]

means nothing

yes they can use their logo's etc

still no signed agreement and default notice..both can be fatal to their claim.

[yodabug]

Thanks for quick response and invaluable input DX - much appreciated.

[dx100uk]

also note that the application sheet in post 28 is a TOTALLY different one to the one in post 1

so which is it , what flippin fleecers…!!

 

are they copying and pasting your details from somewhere into blank docs making them out to be one's you filled out...!!!

 

what dates are on the two please you've blanked out dates

[yodabug]

Thanks DX - I might have confused isssues.

I'll try to clarify...I have uploaded the returned NOA's with the dates now showing ( i hope this is what you meant DX )

 

This POC is for two alledged credit card debts -

 

1) Halifax Card (£4000)

 

2) Lloyds Credit card (£4000)

 

So far I have had back the following CCA's

 

For the Halifax card ( 1 )-

 

For the Lloyds Card (2)

 

I hope this clarifies this a bit.

 

Thanks again DX !

merged.pdf

LLoydsCCA.pdf

NOAdatesshowingHalifax:Lloyds.pdf

[yodabug]

Hi All

 

I'm just going through the Lloyds SAR, closely. ( for the Lloyds card ) and have compared the account Number given on the Notice Of Assignment ( provided by return yesterday from Idem ) and the account number which is on the CCA return --- is DIFFERENT. ( the last eight numbers ) - You have to look closely as the image is not all that.

 

Stupid question - but is this important ?

 

I'm Just wondering how they prove that a certain CCA return is linked to the certain account they are claiming for ? I mean it could be for any account ?

 

Thanks again

[dx100uk]

Exactly..rubbish!!

Oops the title says 2 cards ..

 

Can't see anything they have sent you is even remotely correct or enforceable

[yodabug]

Brilliant stuff thanks DX. Hugely appreciated !

[yodabug]

Hi all

 

Just preparing my defence as it’s due next week. I am Wondering what too put with regards to them NOT complying with the CCA requests on both counts.

 

Can I use the standard defence of not satisfying the s78 request :-

 

6. On receipt of this claim I requested by way of a CPR 31.14 request and a section 78 for copies of any documents referred to within the Claimants particulars to establish what the claim is for. To date they have failed to comply to my section 78 request and remain in default.

 

Or should I go into detail WHY the s78 request has failed to comply on both counts - like the following ?

 

(( I will obviously have to amend it to include both cards. 1) TSB and 2 ) Halifax ))

 

4. A request for information pursuant to the consumer credit Act (section 78) was made on the *********** and response was received on the *************.

 

1. TSB £4000

The claimant has disclosed what purports to be an application form originating at the the time of application 20**. It is deficient of any prescribed terms as laid out by the CCA1974 nor was there any Terms and Conditions enclosed with the application.

It is therefore averred that what the claimant has responded with does not satisfy the request of a section 78 given the age of the alleged agreement (pre 2006 CCA amendments is not an executed agreement and is unenforceable pursuant to sec127.1 a and 3 of the Credit Consumer Act 1974. Any repeal is not applicable as the allegeded agreement is pre 2006 CCA2006 amendments and therefore.

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

A CPR 31.14 request was made by signed for delivery on 8th January 2017 . To date the Defendant has received no response or acknowledgment from the Claimant’s legal representative with regard to the CPR 31.14.

 

If someone could point me in the right direction please ?

 

Thanks again

[AndyOrch]

No you dont go into detail why they are in default...are they in default ...? have they complied to both section 78 requests ?

 

Andy

[yodabug]

Hi Andy - thanks for quick response -

 

I might have used the wrong terminology - in explaining myself - so I do apologise- I have been advised by DX that what they have sent back with regards to my CCA request returns ( both of them ) is such that - to quote ‘ Can’t see anything that is even remotely correct or enforceable ‘

 

Thanks again

[AndyOrch]

Okay so the LLoyds is Illegible and incomplete therefore not enforceable pursuant to sec 61 .1 a/b/c

 

The Halifax is an application 1 page...which refers you to sign and return the agreement....barley legible along with a reconstituted version.....I assume the blacked out area is your and their full name and address...there is no date or account number ?

 

Both which are pre April 2007 credit applications.

[yodabug]

Hi Andy

 

Just made a donation. Everyone is so helpful.

 

Yes they are both pre 2007 agreements.

 

With regards to the Halifax one :-

 

The blacked out areas are my name and address and phone numbers date of birth / salary / time at address etc. ( all typed in ) - nothing is handwritten on the form apart from a small reference number top right.

 

I cannot see their name and address ( Halifax ) anywhere.

 

The blacked out area to the bottom right hand corner is just a received stamp - stating 2005.

 

So to confirm - There is NO date OR account number.

 

Thanks again