Penham Excel threatening to remove vehicle......7yrs old CTAX LO

[Bailiff Advice]

I did tell them when I phoned to try and get my payments back on track but the woman I spoke was completely disinterested and said there was nothing she could do as it was with the Bailiffs now.

 

Another local authority who wrongly believe that their responsibility ceases when they pass an account to their enforcement agent. How wrong they are.

 

I'm sorry to ask so many questions, but it really would assist with advice given if you could answer the following:

 

Before getting to this late stage (of a personal visit) had you been in contact with the local authority about this debt?

 

Had you previously had a payment arrangement with the council for this debt?

 

Given the amount (approx £3,000) are you sure that this debt only represents one years' arrears? Can you clarify how the debt is calculated?

 

Is this the only tax year that you have arrears for?

 

Are you employed or in receipt of benefits?

[Bailiff Advice]

Lisa,

 

I was looking back at your earlier posts on the forum and from the following link (from March 2017) it is clear that you have been really struggling for a long time to sort out (and obviously pay) various Liability Orders from the council. Have you approached the council to find out exactly how much you owe?

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?475282-Excel-Bailiffs-for-CTAX-debt-trying-to-take-my-car....&p=5003270#post5003270

[dx100uk]

sorry I didn't have time to look at previous threads

I have now merged 7 threads here with regard to this ctax debt dating back to 2011!

[dx100uk]

one more thread from 2009! found and merged regard excel and CTAX LO's added.

 

 

dx

[Bailiff Advice]

 

Good morning Lisa,

 

As the various threads on here show, you have been struggling with various council tax arrears since at least 2009. It really is now time to get to the bottom of what exactly you owe . It is vitally important that you write to the council to get a full and detailed breakdown of all Liability Orders and what enforcement fees have been added to each account by Penham.

 

I am not persuaded that the enforcement agent would be wanting to remove your vehicle. It seems from your earlier posts that Penham are familiar with the vulnerability of your children. I notice quite some time ago that you were looking at transferring the vehicle into your mother's name. Was this the same vehicle and did you complete the transfer?

Edited December 6, 2022 by dx100uk
unnecessary previous post quote removed

[dx100uk]

so as post 77

[Time Traveller]

Hope you are getting somewhere with your problem. Do check the bailiff's bills carefully, besides the compliance fee, they can charge an issue fee for the writ of control. (£117.75) I have found this fee added at the writ stage to add onto the debt and then added in the billing again. You can ask for a copy of the writ to check if this is so.

I'm afraid there is a lot of intimidation within this industry, often out of proportion to the sums involved. On the other hand I had a claim against someone who was fairly bailiff hardened, and there is very little they can do despite all the bluff and bluster as you cannot get blood out of a stone. The golden rule is not to let them in.

[Bailiff Advice]

The OP's enquiry concerns council tax arrears. Accordingly, there isn't a writ of control and the fee of £117.75 would not apply in such circumstances.

Edited December 6, 2022 by dx100uk
unnecessary previous post quote removed

[Time Traveller]

Many thanks Bailiff Advice

[lisadp1970]

Hi

 

Quick bit of advice needed regarding filling out financial statements which has been requested by my ex local authority.

 

Basically we have outstanding council tax debt with North Herts Council from around 6+ years ago. they got a court order and we was paying this off at £20 a month which we agreed with them.

 

About a year ago they decided that they wasn't going to accept £20 a month any more and wanted £40, well we told them this was unaffordable and payments ceased.

 

This has now escalated to Bailiff levels so we contacted the Council to say we weren't going to give the Bailiffs anything and that it's in their best interests to take the debt back and accept the original payment of £20 which was all we could still afford.

They said we had to fill out a financial statement so we visited CAB who gave advice and provided the forms to send them.

 

filled these in and emailed them off and the council have come back saying these forms should have been filled out by CAB themselves (never had to do that in the past) and they are not accepting what we sent them!

 

Personally I think they are just being bloody minded, so they've been told as it's school holidays and I'm on my own all day with three kids, two of whom are Autistic, and the fact my Husband has moved out as we've now split up, this won't be possible till September.

 

Is this correct that CAB have to do this form?

 

Thanks

Lisa

[Bazooka Boo]

Why did you stop paying what the court had ordered in the first place??

 

First mistake!

 

Re-instate that payment for £20 a month, and pay the arrears.

 

If the LA want to increase the payments, then they need to take you back to court for a redetermination.

[renegadeimp]

Bb is correct. Even if you disagree with the council you still need to pay what was ordered/agreed.

 

You can then tell the council to go back to court. You can show the judge your income and expenditure details and the judge will make a decision. Not the council.

[Bazooka Boo]

You can then tell the council to go back to court. You can show the judge your income and expenditure details and the judge will make a decision. Not the council.

 

DITTO!

 

At the moment, the LA hold all the cards, unfortunately.

[doggone it]

Erm - no Court Order for payments as this has been an old Liability Order for Council Tax. Agree however the £20 a month should still have been paid in the meantime whether the Council agree or not as they cannot refuse.

[ss002d6252]

I always encouraged debtors to continue to pay something to the Local Authority, even if a payment arrangement was not in place and they were in dispute with us. This was so a) the debt reduces and b) it can work in your favour if later action was taken for committal as it should demonstrate a willingness to pay.

 

There is no legal requirement for CAB to have to fill in a form for you but it will be, seen from the council's view point, as part of the process of encouraging a person to seek advice on debt issues. The council have no obligation to re-instate any payment arrangement or accept a new one at this stage.

 

At an outside push the LGO may look at a case where the council have been awkward over accepting the income/expenditure details but any decision wouldn't particularly mean much anyway in this case as the decision over allowing any arrangement is at the council's discretion.

 

The only way the case will end up back in court at this stage for a magistrate/judge to look at would be if the council applied for committal - at that stage the willingness to pay etc would be looked at.

 

Craig

[Bazooka Boo]

we have outstanding council tax debt with North Herts Council from around 6+ years ago. they got a court order and we was paying this off at £20 a month which we agreed with them.

 

No mention of a LO Lisa.

 

Can only advise on the info you give.

[Bailiff Advice]

Hi

 

Quick bit of advice needed regarding filling out financial statements which has been requested by my ex local authority.

 

Basically we have outstanding council tax debt with North Herts Council from around 6+ years ago. they got a court order and we was paying this off at £20 a month which we agreed with them.

 

About a year ago they decided that they wasn't going to accept £20 a month any more and wanted £40, well we told them this was unaffordable and payments ceased.

 

This has now escalated to Bailiff levels so we contacted the Council to say we weren't going to give the Bailiffs anything and that it's in their best interests to take the debt back and accept the original payment of £20 which was all we could still afford.

 

Lisa,

 

You initially posted on the forum regarding these council tax arrears back in 2009. Earlier this month, you then posted back on the bailiff section of the forum where once again, you received excellent advice. My last post on that thread was this one:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?479264-Penham-Excel-threatening-to-remove-vehicle......7yrs-old-CTAX-LO&p=5042453&viewfull=1#post5042453

 

Did you undertake the enquiries as I had advised?

 

PS: Its best to keep your posts to this section of the forum.

[lisadp1970]

Lisa,

 

You initially posted on the forum regarding these council tax arrears back in 2009. Earlier this month, you then posted back on the bailiff section of the forum where once again, you received excellent advice. My last post on that thread was this one:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?479264-Penham-Excel-threatening-to-remove-vehicle......7yrs-old-CTAX-LO&p=5042453&viewfull=1#post5042453

 

Did you undertake the enquiries as I had advised?

 

PS: Its best to keep your posts to this section of the forum.

 

In relation to my previous posts I did follow up on the advice given which has led to the Council requesting a financial statement, which brings me on to this query.

 

As for not continuing with the payments, the council flatly refused to accept the £20 a month and advised me that I had to deal with the Bailiff company, to which I told them no as the Bailiff company won't accept £20 a month and wanted the whole balance and no less.

 

The council a short while ago got back to me advising that they will accept £20 a month but I have to pay this to Penham Excel, who I refuse to have anything to do with.

[lisadp1970]

Why did you stop paying what the court had ordered in the first place??

 

First mistake!

 

Re-instate that payment for £20 a month, and pay the arrears.

 

If the LA want to increase the payments, then they need to take you back to court for a redetermination.

 

It was the Council who refused the £20 a month and even though they have a LO it wasn't the court that set this amount this was what myself and the council came to an agreement over

[Bailiff Advice]

The council a short while ago got back to me advising that they will accept £20 a month but I have to pay this to Penham Excel, who I refuse to have anything to do with.

 

Given the history of this matter, I would strongly suggest that you accept the council's proposal (which I believe is an excellent one).

 

You have also previously posted extensively about your fear that your vehicle would be seized. You are currently at risk of this happening.

[lisadp1970]

Hi

 

Can someone please advise whether my car is exempt from being seized by Bailiffs for a debt of £1700 when it's only worth about £400-£500.

It's also vital as my role as carer for my two autistic children, it's not an official disability car but I'm their registered carer and need it to take them to appointments and to and from school as public transport is a no go due to their condition.

 

As I understand vehicles with a value less that £1350 that are needed for work are exempt, does my role as a carer put me in this category?

 

Thanks

Lisa

[BankFodder]

You will get better advice from someone else, but if that really is the value of the car then it doesn't seem to me to be appropriate to take it in the face of a debt of £1700. More importantly, there is the issue of vulnerability.

 

Which enforcement company it that you are dealing with?

[lisadp1970]

Its with Equita.

The car is a 54 plate Peugeot 206 and not in great condition.

I have emailed the council today pointing out I refuse to give the Bailiffs anything and the situation with my children etc, But I wanted to know where I stand in regards to whether my car is seen as being vital so cannot be seized

[BankFodder]

I'm afraid emailing the council with that kind of message is probably not going to be very helpful. Did you receive that advice here or somewhere else on the Internet?

 

I think that the point that you need to emphasise to everybody is that you are responsible for two vulnerable children and that the car is needed because you are their registered carer. Have you been given a telephone number for equity? I think that you need to contact them directly – and as soon as possible. You should read our customer services guide and implement the advice there and then telephone them. However, it also to make email contact with them and once again to explain that you are the registered carer of two autistic children and that you need the vehicle. You can then go on to say that in any event, the value of the vehicle is £400-£500 and that if it was sold at auction it would probably fetch even less – probably a bare scrap value and that it would not be reasonable to consider that this item should be taken for a debt of £1700.

 

However, you should emphasise your vulnerability. I suggest that you do exactly this with the council as well – but do it formally, beginning with somebody on the telephone and then follow-up by email with everything that you have said. Get reference numbers for your telephone conversations – and as I have said, read our customer services guide first

[Bailiff Advice]

Hi

 

Can someone please advise whether my car is exempt from being seized by Bailiffs for a debt of £1700 when it's only worth about £400-£500.

 

It's also vital as my role as carer for my two autistic children, it's not an official disability car but I'm their registered carer and need it to take them to appointments and to and from school as public transport is a no go due to their condition.

 

As I understand vehicles with a value less that £1350 that are needed for work are exempt, does my role as a carer put me in this category?

 

Lisa

 

Good morning Lisa,

 

As I think you probably already know, the vehicle will not be considered 'exempt'. For clarity, this is from the Taking Control of Goods Regulations 2013:

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/1894/part/1/crossheading/exempt-goods/made?view=plain

 

Exempt items:

 

Items or equipment (for example, tools, books, telephones, computer equipment and vehicles) which are necessary for use personally by the debtor in the debtor’s employment, business, trade, profession, study or education, except that in any case the aggregate value of the items or equipment to which this exemption is applied shall not exceed £1,350;

 

As to the position with your sons (who are both autistic) I am aware from your earlier posts last year that they are both in receipt of DLA, Mobility element and care element. Are you not entitled to a Blue Badge?

 

Is this debt that is now with Equita the same as the one that was with Penham Excel last summer?