PCN parked in a disabled bay

[afcwben]

Was parked in a disabled bay.

 

 

The bay was clearly marked disabled and no time restrictions were shown.

 

 

The car was parked at 8pm and I was issued a PCN,

 

 

I challenged the PCN but I was told as there are double yellow lines going through the disabled bay

 

 

there is a 3 hour waiting restriction and a clock has to be displayed showing arrival time.

 

 

Is this correct?

Thanks for any guidance

 

my other question is why would a disabled bay have yellow lines?

[renegadeimp]

private land or public? i ask because some PPC's will actually try and make their disabled bays look like proper ones.

[Surfer01]

Generally I think that the maximum time limit in any disabled bay is 3 hours assuming your badge was on display.

[afcwben]

private land or public? i ask because some PPC's will actually try and make their disabled bays look like proper ones.

 

This is a ticket issued by the council, from what I understand there is no time restriction on a disabled bay unless there are signs saying that. what makes this different is the disabled bay had double yellow lines, I have never seen this before

[Michael Browne]

What signage was there, if any, or was there just disabled bay road markings?

 

Without the disabled bay, BB holders can park for 3 hrs on the DYL's anyway (unless there are kerb markings), so what's the point of the bay markings?

 

What's the exact location?

[Jamberson]

Sounds like it could be contradictory markings. We need to see.

[afcwben]

What signage was there, if any, or was there just disabled bay road markings?

 

Without the disabled bay, BB holders can park for 3 hrs on the DYL's anyway (unless there are kerb markings), so what's the point of the bay markings?

 

What's the exact location?

 

That's what I thought here is a link to street map you can see the disabled bay markings and the double yellow lines https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.0577011,1.1591233,3a,75y,328.79h,67.21t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sxPpAo2R9sO3BqTuhtME5BQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

[ericsbrother]

no plate to show restrictions in disabled bay and the white lines are on top of the DYL so logically take precedence. The traffic order should clarify this point and if it doesnt then an appeal on conflicting signage

Also, look at the paint job at the end of Foundry Rd where it goes into St Margarets St, WHITE lines and no bar to the end of the DYL. Kerb marking there are a single yellow bar so an indication of restricted parking rather than no parking in a taxi bay that still has DYL but no plate-confusing or what? There are also gaps in the paintwork that look like they are die to the road being dug up but it might not be for that so again confusing markings. Where you see a lot of cars parked on the DYL the paint job is so worn that the original single yellow is more visible so people are either parking because they think it is a sinle line or because of "dereliction", ie no-one has enforced the rule for so long it no longer applies by custom.

You should be using the google view as part of your appeal if the council dont drop it at first.

[afcwben]

no plate to show restrictions in disabled bay and the white lines are on top of the DYL so logically take precedence. The traffic order should clarify this point and if it doesnt then an appeal on conflicting signage

Also, look at the paint job at the end of Foundry Rd where it goes into St Margarets St, WHITE lines and no bar to the end of the DYL. Kerb marking there are a single yellow bar so an indication of restricted parking rather than no parking in a taxi bay that still has DYL but no plate-confusing or what? There are also gaps in the paintwork that look like they are die to the road being dug up but it might not be for that so again confusing markings. Where you see a lot of cars parked on the DYL the paint job is so worn that the original single yellow is more visible so people are either parking because they think it is a sinle line or because of "dereliction", ie no-one has enforced the rule for so long it no longer applies by custom.

You should be using the google view as part of your appeal if the council dont drop it at first.

 

Thanks for this. The council has turned down my initial appeal so now have to wait for the NTK, grateful for any tips

[Surfer01]

I am pretty sure that you are restricted to maximum time of 3 hours in a disabled bay. The same applies if parking on yellow lines.

[mikeymack2002]

At the junction and for some distance coming towards the said bay there are also kerb chevrons (single) the road markings are a total cluster fudge!

 

An unmarked disabled bay is normally for a resident next to it. But again a cluster fudge.

[DragonFly1967]

I am pretty sure that you are restricted to maximum time of 3 hours in a disabled bay. The same applies if parking on yellow lines.

 

This is where it gets confusing. In general the rules are 3 hours on DYL but no time limit in a marked disabled parking bay (unless signage says otherwise). As there is no signage, do you go with the DYL or the disabled parking bay markings?

 

I'd definitely be looking at the TRO and be taking the appeal to the TPT.

[afcwben]

This is where it gets confusing. In general the rules are 3 hours on DYL but no time limit in a marked disabled parking bay (unless signage says otherwise). As there is no signage, do you go with the DYL or the disabled parking bay markings?

 

I'd definitely be looking at the TRO and be taking the appeal to the TPT.

 

where do you get the TRO from?

[DragonFly1967]

where do you get the TRO from?

 

County councils (Suffolk, rather than Ipswich borough) usually have an online resource, see if you can find that. Failing that, it'll be a visit to the County council highways department. I've just got a feeling that someone has stuffed up the road markings. You'd almost certainly have a valid argument that it is confusing.

[ericsbrother]

I would argue conflicting or contradictory as well as confusing. There should be an absolute for parking on DYL's but you have these bays slapped on top of them and the bays have not only a different time allowed but it will need a different TRO and a plate indicating any time limit for parking. No plate, no contravention. Use the other points about the single bars, broken paint lines etc as further examples of confusing as they are part of the same set of lines but not really the main thrust of your argument.

[afcwben]

I will appeal this and let you know the outcome

[Jamberson]

I think it's a promising case. I've heard of single yellows running through parking bays, but there's a direct contradiction with double yellows (no parking ever) and parking bays (park here).

 

As Michael points out, you can park on the yellow lines with Blue Badge, so what's the purpose of the bay, unless it offers some other form of restriction?

 

TRO will clarify what the restriction should be. If you can't find it, phone the council and ask them to provide a copy. Shouldn't be a problem.

 

What was the contravention on the PCN, by the way?

[Michael Browne]

I

As Michael points out, you can park on the yellow lines with Blue Badge, so what's the purpose of the bay, unless it offers some other form of restriction?

 

 

And it's unlikely (or at least illogical) that the bays are going to be more restrictive for BB holders than DYL's. Otherwise BB holders would always park on the DYL's. Since there is no timeplate, it would be entirely reasonable to assume that the disabled bays are free of any restriction and there is no requirement to display the clock, only the BB..

[mikeymack2002]

Given this bay is clearly an 'advisory bay' anyone with a badge can park in it providing they have correctly displayed their blue badge, under s47 of the Road Traffic Regulations Act 1984 you cannot or should not be issued against. s47 link >> http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/27/section/47

 

 

 

 

 

• Advisory spaces are marked out for the use of disabled people, but they are not enforceable and there is no legal sanction to prevent other people using them. (just Google advisory spaces to find extra information) Also see my attachment (highlighted for other use too)...

Here is an example >> https://www.eastsussex.gov.uk/socialcare/transport/bays/

SN01360 edited.pdf

[mikeymack2002]

For clarity what is the alleged offence on the PCN (01/ 02/ 40/ 47) can you upload it with all identifying marks removed in a PDF format please, identifying marks include your index barcode PCN number and items like this!

 

 

Thx

[mikeymack2002]

Link to the attachment in post #19 is here >> http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN01360/SN01360.pdf

[afcwben]

For clarity what is the alleged offence on the PCN (01/ 02/ 40/ 47) can you upload it with all identifying marks removed in a PDF format please, identifying marks include your index barcode PCN number and items like this!

 

 

Thx

 

Iw was a contravention 01 parking on a street during restricted hours

[mikeymack2002]

The PCN is invalid it's the wrong offence code for the bay. Not only that these bays are NOT covered by the order as no plate is displayed. The correct code should have been 40. If at all. Have a read of my attachment above.

 

These are known by a different name and you should continue with your appeal to all levels...

[afcwben]

hanks to all I will let you know how this progresses, I am waiting for the NTK

[hugo1963]

For clarity what is the alleged offence on the PCN (01/ 02/ 40/ 47) can you upload it with all identifying marks removed in a PDF format please, identifying marks include your index barcode PCN number and items like this!

 

 

Thx

Hi thank for reply its pcn 40 the pics are on an earlier post