Article 50 Discussion

[tobyjugg2]

Not that it should be any surprise as its been stated for over two years, but here is what the US lobbyers are pressing for in any US/UK 'deal

 

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/what-us-lobbyists-want-donald-trump-to-get-from-the-uk-in-a-post-brexit-trade-deal_uk_5c5b26c6e4b00187b5579f64?utm_hp_ref=uk-homepage

 

"Powerful lobbyists are pressing Donald Trump to play hard ball over the NHS, food quality and consumer rights during talks for a US-UK trade deal, it can be revealed."

 

 

Lobbyists for big firms made more than 130 demands, which include:

 

• Changing how NHS chiefs buy drugs to suit big US pharmaceutical companies
  
• Britain scraps its safety-first approach to safety and food standards
  
• Law changes that would allow foreign companies to sue the British state
  
• Removal of protections for traditional British products
  

examples

 

[h=2]1) Scrap the safety-first approach to food quality and standards[/h]

[h=2]2) Weaken data protection for consumers[/h]

[h=2]3) Allow the sale of hormone-riddled beef[/h]

[h=2]4) Slash British cattle farming subsidies[/h]

[h=2]5) Allow new genetically-modified foods to be sold with minimal regulation[/h]

[h=2]6) Stop people knowing what they’re eating is genetically-modified food[/h]

[h=2]7) Get rid of Britain’s safety-first approach to chemicals[/h]

 

[h=2]10) Ignore the presence hormones and pus in dairy products[/h]

[h=2]12) Allow politicians, not courts, to handle legal disputes[/h]

[h=2]13) Allow foreign businesses to sue the British state[/h]

[h=2]14) Stop Britain holding big social media companies to account[/h]

[h=2]16) Lift the UK ban on a growth hormone in pork[/h]

[h=2]17) More antibiotics in livestock[/h]

[h=2]18) Eliminate UK testing for a parasitic worm in pork[/h]

[h=2]19) Dump law against chlorine-bleached chicken[/h]

[h=2]20) Legalise dangerous pesticides[/h]

[honeybee13]

That's just appalling, TJ. I for one don't want to consume that kind of thing.

[Jase1982]

There are some seriously scummy people making a lot of money out of this mess. Just look at the kind of books Jacob Rees-Mogg's dad wrote about making money from desperate situations.

[honeybee13]

I agree, Jase. Rees Mogg has pretty much relocated to Dublin as I understand it. His company stands to make a lot of money if the pound plummets. Conflict of interest anyone? He isn't the only one.

[honeybee13]

And now the Brexit department is recruiting outside the civil service in case of a disaster.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/08/brexit-no-deal-crisis-command-centre-starts-hiring-civilians

Edited February 8, 2019 by honeybee13
Typo.

[ploddertom]

 

I agree, Jase. Rees Mogg has pretty much relocated to Dublin as I understand it. His company stands to make a lot of money if the pound plummets. Conflict of interest anyone? He isn't the only one.

 

 

Politicians are only in it for one thing - themselves. The only thing they ever did wrong over the expenses scandal was to have been caught at it. I'm still waiting for my MP to ask my opinions on it all - I forgot that since the one and only time he called he has never been back since as he didn't like what he was told.

[honeybee13]

I know, PT. Politicians are in it for themselves in my opinion too.

[ploddertom]

All this business has shown me one thing and that is the contempt the MPs have for all the electorate. If it wasn't for the fact it would make no difference where I live I would never vote again.

[tobyjugg2]

Petition: Revoke Art.50 if there is no Brexit plan by the 25 of February

 

On the 25th of November both the UK Government and the European Union came to an agreement on the proposed departure from the EU. After an historic defeat in the House of Commons on the 15th of January, 2019 by a majority of 230 votes the PM has now decided to go back to the EU over the backstop.

 

More details Under section 5 (ii) of the Belfast argeement, 1998, there is agreement to " to use best endeavours to reach agreement on the adoption of common policies, in areas where there is a mutual cross-border and allisland benefit"

The Government's own economic analysis published in November 2018, shows that a no deal scenario will have roughly a 10% decrease in GDP.

The issue is that EU have firmly stated that they will not re-open negotiations with the UK over the agreement and remove the backstop.

 

 

 

 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/239706

 

 

15000 votes and counting

 

LET MAY AND CORBYN KNOW RUNNING OUT THE CLOCK IS NOT ACCEPTABLE

[honeybee13]

I think they may struggle with that. If they'd asked for article 50 to be extended they might have got a better response.

 

But it's about time May did something instead of olympic standard can kicking. Even 25th February only allows just over a month.

[tobyjugg2]

I think they may struggle with that. If they'd asked for article 50 to be extended they might have got a better response.

 

But it's about time May did something instead of olympic standard can kicking. Even 25th February only allows just over a month.

 

I think as it seems most likely that May and Corbyn ARE just running out the clock:

 

An extension requires the OK of the EU 27, and they have said that there must be a good reason with a plan, so all May would have to do is carry on waffling and they wouldn't grant it

result - crash out

 

Whats currently expected is that May, with the underhand support of Corbyn, is just going to drag out the 'meaningful vote' until a few days before exit day, with the ONLY options being her deal or no deal.

Corbyn will almost certainly enable this.

 

Hence the Petition

 

So default is stay - which leaves ALL options open

NOT crash out which leaves NO options or an already heavily rejected deal which IS pretty much the worst option.

[determindator]

It will be interesting to see if the percentages of the original vote changes. You would need the whole of the electorate of the UK to be aware of the petition and add themselves to the petition if they agreed with the statement, which would show the mood of the electorate. On reaching 100k it will be interesting to see what happens next.

[unclebulgaria67]

Theresa May does seem to be running down the clock, so she can force MP's to accept her deal, to avoid a no deal Brexit.

 

I think MP's including current cabinet ministers could stop May doing this and she will be forced to delay Brexit, while Parliament has a chance to decide the way forward.

[honeybee13]

Interesting article in the Guardian this morning 'My way or a long delay'. It sounds like holding the country to ransom to me.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/12/theresa-mays-brexit-tactic-my-way-or-a-long-delay

[tobyjugg2]

The ERG's issues with the safety net/backstop is that clearly they clearly dont believe a technological solution is implementable - they are fighting it as hard as they can

- despite them saying that was an easy solution to something that wasn't really a problem .....

Why are they NOT supporting THEIR proposal?

 

So if the ERG dont believe it can or will be done when they are the ones driving the UK parliament, why should anyone else

 

The EU's stance will be

'Implement the technological alternative to the safety net as you say is the alternative, and the net is not needed.

A little more perhaps than using motorways as lorry parks, and giving money to ferry firms with no ferries.

Simples ...

 

 

 

Of course, the ERG/hard right are the ones driving the 'keep bluffing - everyone will fold' stance, despite them holding just a pair of number two's in their hand. - because dragging it out means they win. Hard brexit + repeal of rights and protections.

- May is calling their bluff.

 

... Trouble is May is also just holding a pair of number two's,

and the biggest of her number twos is Corbyn - who also happens to be one of the ERG's big number twos

 

 

Without Corbyn, both the ERG and May would have nothing.

Edited February 13, 2019 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

With the UK failing to even keep the trade deals we get through the EU

 

 

 

You can imagine

 

Faux: We want cake

 

Japanese Negotiator:

Double darn

They insult me by sending this idiot

and If i don't go back with the deal of the century for us after negotiating with this fool, my family name will become part of our language used to describe stupid incompetents who cant win a negotiation against children

Edited February 13, 2019 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

So as May is defeated again

As is a delay amendment ...

 

Corbyn shouts

 

'When will the PM listen to Parliament'

.. while ignoring the wishes of his own membership, momentum and Mp's

 

and

 

'She has no plan'

.. while he effectively has the same, simply renaming the May non plan to Corbyns non plan

 

 

 

 

While Elon Musk Company OpenAI reports:

"Brexit has already cost the UK economy at least 80bn since the EU referendum"

[buckthorn]

Thought this may be of interest.

This is a piece written by Frederick Forsyth!

Some people have very strange hobbies and a mate of mine has steeped

himself so long and so intently in a life long study of the British constitution

that he leaves professors of government scratching their heads before

admitting he is right after all.

 

It is fashionable to say we Brits have no constitution but that is rubbish.

Also rubbish to claim we have no written constitution. It is part-written,

part unspoken custom. But there is nothing unwritten about the English

Bill of Rights of 1689.

 

What IS true is that, unlike all others, ours was not written in one

place at one time by one group of scholars and stored in one place. But it

is still there. he says My mate claims that with all their powers there are two

things our parliament cannot do. It cannot legally disempower itself and it

cannot require our monarch to break her Coronation Oath.

 

“this is the most interesting part” He then goes on to affirm that the

passing and ratification of the Treaty of Lisbon did both that and is therefore

invalid. He says this is being taken extremely seriously in very high places.

 

Now supposing he is right? It would make Brexit not a Brexit but a breakfast-a

dog’s breakfast. It would mean our politicos passed all those sovereign powers

from London to Brussels illegally. In which case there is nothing to discuss.

 

We walk without any more need-bending and trade with the rest of the world

on the best terms we can get.

“Whoopee”

 

[obiter dictum]

FlyBMI have just released a press release they have gone into administration and all flights cancelled

 

"The airline has faced several difficulties, including recent spikes in fuel and carbon costs, the latter arising from the EU’s recent decision to exclude UK airlines from full participation in the Emissions Trading Scheme.

 

"These issues have undermined efforts to move the airline into profit.

 

"Current trading and future prospects have also been seriously affected by the uncertainty created by the Brexit process, which has led to our inability to secure valuable flying contracts in Europe and lack of confidence around bmi’s ability to continue flying between destinations in Europe.

 

Might shake up Parliament a bit now reality starts to bite

[honeybee13]

Remainers are planning a mass march in London, on Saturday 23rd March.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/16/huge-march-last-week-before-brexit

[tobyjugg2]

Corbyn gets his collar felt by the party at long last and gets a (hopefully final) written warning

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-brexit-policy-jeremy-corbyn-party-members-nec-remain-no-deal-second-referendum-a8781191.html

 

 

“You were elected leader of our party on a platform of transforming Labour into a member led movement. You said that ‘policy will be made by Labour members, not the leader, shadow cabinet or parliamentary party."

 

 

“Based on the content of your letter to the prime minister, not only is the policy not now being followed, it has clearly been changed – but without any mandate from the party membership to do so. How is this ‘Straight Talking, Honest Politics’?”

 

 

"The vast majority of the membership want a referendum on the deal. If we are truly a member led party, then all elements of the Brexit policy must be adhered to."

Edited February 17, 2019 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

Corbyn gets his collar felt by the party at long last and gets a (hopefully final) written warning

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-brexit-policy-jeremy-corbyn-party-members-nec-remain-no-deal-second-referendum-a8781191.html

 

 

“You were elected leader of our party on a platform of transforming Labour into a member led movement. You said that ‘policy will be made by Labour members, not the leader, shadow cabinet or parliamentary party."

 

Forget party policy and Party decisions, swear allegiance to Der Leader and whatever HE wants

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-second-referendum-labour-back-john-mcdonnell-a8783271.html

 

Brexit: Labour will only back a fresh referendum ‘in extremis’, John McDonnell says

 

 

https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/news/scotland/labour-mp-says-he-wont-sign-ridiculous-loyalty-pledge/

 

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/labour-loyalty-pledge_uk_5c69b697e4b033a79943aa3f?utm_hp_ref=uk-homepage

"I pledge to work for the achievement of a Labour led Government under whatever leadership members elect. And I accept a Labour led government is infinitely better than any other election outcome.”

 

See any similarities: (including institutionalised anti-semitism (for starters))

"I vow to you, Jeremy Corbyn, as Leader of the Party, loyalty and bravery. I vow to you and to the leaders that you set for me, absolute allegiance"

Edited February 18, 2019 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

and Corbyn has the gall to say the 7 were 'elected to carry out labour manifesto when he is deliberately confounding the stated will of the Party

 

Well Corbyn, they have left to attempt to deliver the Labour manifesto and attempt to deliver on the will of the majority of the Party.

 

 

Corbyn is unquestionably the worst thing to ever happen to the Labour Party. They would be in power now if it wasn't for Corbyn and his Cronies.

 

I hope the Unite members at the Honda and Nissan (and Toyota) plants are demanding Mcclucksky's head on a plate for his machinations.

[honeybee13]

The government have responded to the petition asking to revoke Article 50.

 

'The Government’s policy is not to revoke Article 50. Instead, we continue to work with Parliament to deliver a deal that ensures we leave the European Union, as planned, on March 29th.'

 

They're considering it for debate which is all the have to do once a petition is over 100,000 signatures. This one has 129,000 and is still open.

 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/239706

[tobyjugg2]

Shame the car workers can't just move abroad with the manufacturers and Financiers

 

To add to the collapse of the remnants of the UK manufacturing base

 

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu/aviva-natwest-to-join-brexodus-of-business-to-eu-idUKKCN1Q81YW

 

£800 Billion+ 'Brexodus' of Assets to EU

 

 

 

 

"Among banks, Britain’s Barclays secured court approval last month to move 190 billion euros (£166 billion) in assets to a Dublin subsidiary."

 

 

Not included yet:

"Most of the largest international banks are keeping their asset and capital transfer plans confidential"

 

"Lloyd’s of London, the world’s oldest commercial insurance market, looks set to be among the last and probably the biggest of all, saying it won’t complete its coordination of Part VII transfers on behalf of its syndicates until the end of 2020."

 

 

 

"the quiet shift of money means less business will be processed in Britain and less tax will be raised by the country’s financial sector, currently the biggest source of corporate tax revenue."

 

 

 

 

BUT already included:

"Jacob Rees-Mogg’s group launches second Irish fund"

 

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/jacob-rees-mogg-s-group-launches-second-irish-fund-1.3573675

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-jacob-rees-mogg-scm-ireland-city-move-eu-withdrawal-dublin-a8398041.html

 

"The fund also warned its clients directly of the dangers of a hard Brexit, saying it would “increase costs” and make it difficult to pursue its objectives."

 

 

 

They may be divided in Parliament, but they certainly seem united in taking their assets out of Brexit Britain,

especially arch Brexiters like Rees Mogg and Dyson.

Edited February 20, 2019 by tobyjugg2