Suspended on spurious grounds

[Guest topcat14]

I must disagree

 

He has already submited a grievance to his manager that has been ignored and discarded, HR is the next logical step in the chain of command within the business

 

You do not have to follow the employers grievance procedure as long as you follow the ACAS procedure which sets the minimum standards an employer has to follow with disciplinary matters

 

It has been known for employers to drag out grievance procedures to "Time out" any claim to the Tribunal service during the qualifying period

 

 

 

There is no "time out" as you put it.....yet, as both parties are still under contract.

 

I have first hand experience of this is an ET. The most important thing that came out of my experience at a Tribunal is that you must exhaust ALL possible procedures via the employers policies regardless of weather they are right or wrong under ACAS rules. The Tribunal will look at the possible remedies that could have taken place and then apply the ACAS guidelines .

 

You only need to raise a grievance once, and that should be dealt with "without unreasonable delay". If the employer chooses to ignore that and continues along a path that results in dismissal of the employee for whatever reason, that could be seen as unfair by an ET.

 

I have handled several disciplinary hearings where the employee raises a grievance during their hearing, and it is a fair response to tell the employee that the grievance will be dealt with as a separate issue BEFORE any further action is taken as a result of the hearing.

 

Again I stress that the OP hear, needs to follow the internal procedure(s) to maintain his side of the contract he has with his employer. To date we do not know if he has done that, as he has not told us. He has told us that he has raised a grievance and been met with silence.

[Atlas01]

There are two separate entities here.

 

1. The original complaint by the OP

2. Their subsequent suspension for the MOP complaint.

 

 

For 1 the OP needs to concentrate on that on it's own for now, he may feel that they have brought this in because he complained but this really means little right now, if an MOP has complained they are fully able to investigate it. Mitigation and such around it being a month and they have only thrown it in now does seem suspicious but suspicion is all it is unless they are stupid enough to admit it.

 

For 2 which is the most important issue currently I see nothing on the actual allegation although my spidey senses tell me it may be for the way they were dealt with/spoken to?

 

Reading through the thread all i see is a scatter gun approach around what everybody else has done, unfortunately in disciplinary hearings and investigations this often means jack so forget anything not exactly the same as the complaint against you!

 

It should also be remembered that if an employer wants to ignore a grievance they can do, unless the OP resigns there is little redress if the management layers are open to such shenanigans.

 

I would be concentrating on defending the allegation now, grievance later, i would also consider formally updating the original grievance to include their failure to respond and possibly the raising of the complaint by the MOP but i would need to be very confident this allegation was spurious and could be proven to be so or that could backfire (I'd normally hold back until the disciplinary was done, if i was not sure i would make little reference to it other than enough to bring it into the grievance.

 

However the moment it's changed a smart HR officer could kick it back to the first stage as a "new grievance"

 

An old tried and sometimes successful way to get grievances back on track (in my experience) is to write stating "their failure to respond is a failure to agree and that you wish it moved up to the next stage"

 

Something to consider from the OP, i too worked in civil enforcement for a few years meeting all sorts of lovely respectable characters although my work was mostly prosecution files and businesses . I did give fines now and then (thankfully not parking tickets) In all this time i had one MOP complaint against me and on reflection i was harsh and aggressive with the person due to the abuse i got.

 

A guy i worked with ended up arguing nearly every time i worked with him, he was very effective at his job, other than a couple of high level legal issue where his actions meant the case could never go to court nothing was ever said, until he made a complaint against his boss, guess what happened next, he was hauled over the coals for exactly what was stated in the OP as they had a shed load of MOP complaints. He didn't get sacked but he hated the job with a passion now as he's constantly under the spotlight, his grievance went nowhere also.

 

I share this boring tale because i'd say whilst your suspended take a good think about why people are complaining, I never got complaints because i never gave anybody the opportunity to pin anything on me, You have lodged a grievance, are in a disciplinary, if you get through it you won't be getting cake and drinks on your return, they will be all over you.

 

The actual detail of the MOP complaint would be of use here greatly!

 

Edit, forgot why i posted in the first place

 

 

I see more than enough from what the OP has written to show they have form for "confrontation" this opens the door for the employer so advice should be around defending the complaint in my opinion, not procedural technicalities which will confuse tony69, they probably mean nothing anyway f the issue falls under "bullying" by his manager as you can't bring bullying complaints to tribunal and unless this one email states the OP is satan himself and eats babies it would come nowhere near enough for the OP to resign and go for a constructive dismissal claim.

Edited November 1, 2015 by Atlas01
sunday sherries

[san_d]

Interesting thread.

 

Having found myself in a similar situation in the past, this is the way I see it:

1) OP complaints about management

2) Management takes revenge

 

In my opinion it is irrelevant whether he/she is confrontational or aggressive. Managers can be pure a$$holes but can get away with it.

 

I think the OP has very little chance to get away with it. Management has more money/time/resources and they usually win. I speak out of my own experience and could be totally wrong.

[tonyp1969]

I got through the disciplinary process ok and returned to work a few weeks ago.

I am now being investigated for saying to a new colleague "who are you?" as when I walked in the office he jumped up got in my face and told me to "cheer up".

He has since complained. I would say that this is an absolute nothing of a situation but management are all over it. Can this be a form of bullying? Can I expect to be investigated for every little thing now if management want me out?

This is causing me massive stress and I have today gone home sick with stress as it is giving me a massive headache and a rotten stomach.

[tonyp1969]

Hi,

 

 

I have gone off sick from work with Stress. Can my employer in my absence suspend or dismiss me or do they have to wait for me to return to work?

A colleague complained that I swore at them.

[Emmzzi]

They can suspend or dismiss in your absence although it would be unusual

 

Did you swear?

[Emmzzi]

Can this be a form of bullying? Can I expect to be investigated for every little thing now if management want me out?

This is causing me massive stress and I have today gone home sick with stress as it is giving me a massive headache and a rotten stomach.

 

1. Management have a duty to investigate complaints

2. Yes, if they want you out they will investigate everything, so do not give them reason

 

Did you join a union or start jobseeking as previously advised?

[tonyp1969]

I don't think so, the colleague was brand new, I walked in the office and he jumped up and got in my face and said "cheer up" and I asked "who are you?" he is claiming I said "who the F*ck are you?"

[tonyp1969]

I have a new job, however it took 2 months for medical and I forgot about it so I don't know if that will still go ahead.

[honeybee13]

Hello again.

 

It sounds as if what Atlas predicted could be coming true, sadly. It's possible that management do want you out, sadly, and I would be looking around for something else.

 

Can you tell us how the disciplinary went, please?

 

HB

[tonyp1969]

I got a final written warning so I guess that is it to be honest. Though I didn't do anything.

There were 3 people in the room and I know that one of them said I didn't swear but I don't know about the other one.

[honeybee13]

I got a final written warning so I guess that is it to be honest. Though I didn't do anything.

There were 3 people in the room and I know that one of them said I didn't swear but I don't know about the other one.

 

Thank you for that.

 

I've merged your threads, to keep the information together and make it easier for the advisers.

 

HB

[Emmzzi]

Can you remember if you did swear?

[tonyp1969]

I don't believe I swore. I remember asking who he was.

This was weeks ago.

[Emmzzi]

Not looking good. I would prepare for the worst.

[tonyp1969]

Thanks that cheers me up.

[tonyp1969]

The person that I spoke to didn't even make a complaint about me and just made a passing comment to someone. Management have jumped upon it to do an investigation. Can they sack me if no complaint has been made?

[Emmzzi]

Yes, if you have behaved in an inappropriate way

[tonyp1969]

But it wasn't in a public place, it was literally just me and this other guy who is finding it quite incredible this has been dragged up.

 

 

It's quite clear my manager is out to persecute me and I've now gone of sick with stress. I've received a call in the past hour that they want me to attend an investigation meeting. My question is, can they insist I attend even when off sick and can they carry out the investigation without me being their to defend myself?

[Emmzzi]

are you too sick to work or too sick to be investigated? Not the same thing.

 

As I have already stated they could indeed do the whole process without you.

 

It is possible to be inappropriate in the workplace as well as public places.

[tonyp1969]

Like I said before, it is blatantly obvious my manager wants me out and she is jumping on anything to get that result. This happened 3 weeks ago, no one complained and it's only through an informal chat she was having that it even came to light.

 

 

There have been situations in the past with other employees who've verbally threatened violence using foul language and management were advised to do something about it, but it was swept under the carpet. This as well as loads of other incidents of overlooked bad conduct is not unusual where I work,

If they do sack me where do I stand to take legal action about the way I've been treated compared to other emplyees, as surely in this day and age with laws to protect, my manager cannot get away with persecuting me like this. I work hard, get performance pointers regularly and rarely miss a day of work.

[Emmzzi]

what they are doing is totally legal - I am not sure what else you want me to say, they want you out and you appear to be loading the gun for them with your confrontational style.

 

sometimes it's best to cut your losses and get on with your life.

[tonyp1969]

But I wasn't confrontational, at all, one bit, that's what's getting to me. Like I said the other guy involved didn't feel upset by it at all and we get on really well.

[unclebulgaria67]

But I wasn't confrontational, at all, one bit, that's what's getting to me. Like I said the other guy involved didn't feel upset by it at all and we get on really well.

 

Just read the thread. Your options are 1) return to work when fit, keep your head down and do everything by the book, keeping full records, follow the disciplinary process, see what happens or 2) decide that this company are an unprofessional bunch and seek work elsewhere.

 

It seems to me that for whatever reason, some of your colleagues including your manager want you out, by whatever means. I suspect that the new member of staff who got into your face for no apparent reason had been encouraged to do this by other colleagues. You then reacted, as many people would and the manager you complained about is using it to see if the company will sack you. Very difficult to combat this within the disciplinary process, unless you have witnesses who will speak up for you.