Should we leave the EU..

[Guest]

do the Council still meet 'in secret'?

[obiter dictum]

I do hope this does not degenerate into another kipper slanging match

[antone]

do the Council still meet 'in secret'?

 

Like the British Cabinet?

[unclebulgaria67]

Like the British Cabinet?

 

Yes, that is a fair point that UK government is not any more open than the EU.

 

Some people who are anti EU are honest to admit that they don't like the EU purely because they don't feel part of Europe. They see the UK as an island nation that has different values to countries in mainland Europe.

 

I personally don't feel this way and that the UK is better being part of a larger union of countries, that seeks to gain agreement, where it is mostly in the interests of all countries and citizens. Nothing is perfect and the EU needs to be reformed. But Cameron has found out that he is unlikely to gain any reform, just because of an in/out referendum. He might think that other EU leaders will offer the UK some changes when the referendum draws closer, but the EU has other massive issues to deal with.

[Conniff]

My main anti is that German, 'oh look I've got another Primark jacket,' woman who thinks she is the boss. There are a select few who are unelected, (at least our cabinet is elected), who tell all the others what to do.

 

Time for this again

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JT_E67h_rgI

[Conniff]

I do hope this does not degenerate into another kipper slanging match

 

I do, we get more done when that happens.

[Guest]

Like the British Cabinet?

 

seems that they still can do re some matters, did a quick googly look up, some brief info eg

http://www.civitas.org.uk/eufacts/FSINST/IN3.php

 

useful info there also re the 'commission' and 'parliament';

http://www.civitas.org.uk/eufacts/FSINST/IN1.php

http://www.civitas.org.uk/eufacts/FSINST/IN4.php

[obiter dictum]

I am getting rather fed up with this usual USSEU Rhetoric and tin foil hat mentality by some posters. This constant spamming of Photoshopped pictures and personal YouTube blogs does not help. Why is it when ever you ask legitimate questions the No to the EU contingent will never answer the question, just post some obscure link?

 

I must say on this forum you can debate such issues without being called the usual Leftie, Commie Paedo default response.

 

The real problem is that it is always the negatives of membership being constantly rammed down our throats in the national press, never the positives or what impact any exit will have on trade, but more importantly employment security.

 

Some of us just wish for an honest debate without the usual political rabid dog persuasion from whichever side of the political spectrum you support

[silverfox1961]

Wouldn't it be better if we posted the pros and cons of membership rather than going into long dialogues that don't really help.

 

I don't know enough of the benefits or negatives so I can be called a floater (if you wish)

[unclebulgaria67]

Those who are against something tend to shout louder !

 

Newspapers like the Daily Mail like stories about the EU, purely because they encourage more views and comments being added. The more people viewing Daily Mail online, the more they earn from advertising. The Daily Mail owners or editors may be anti EU, but that is not the reason for negative EU stories all of the time.

 

Some newspapers like the Telegraph and Express are totally anti EU, because they think it serves their business interests. Telegraph owners live in the Channel Islands, where they would pay a lot less tax.

[Old Cogger]

some papers told me I was to inherit large monies in their stars section - like the rest of the papers = make belive

[san_d]

Web forums in the last five years have been taken over by UKIP zealots. I'd suggest this site to perform a bit of a cleanup. I have been active for three years but if I had joined now, I couldn't have recognized for what it was.

 

Conniff, good job for ** edited out ** this forum up. I hope you make some money out of it, because if you do it for free there must be something wrong with you.

Edited July 6, 2015 by Conniff
Remove evasion of swear filter

[antone]

My main anti is that German, 'oh look I've got another Primark jacket,' woman who thinks she is the boss. There are a select few who are unelected, (at least our cabinet is elected), who tell all the others what to do.

 

 

If our Cabinet counts as "elected" (and I agree that it does) then so does the Council of Ministers.

[unclebulgaria67]

The bear garden is a bit different to the rest of CAG. It is for general chat mostly on current affairs topics. The rest of the site is for specific issues that are affecting peoples lifes.

[SabreSheep]

Web forums in the last five years have been taken over by UKIP zealots. I'd suggest this site to perform a bit of a cleanup. I have been active for three years but if I had joined now, I couldn't have recognized for what it was.

 

Conniff, good job for ** edited out ** this forum up. I hope you make some money out of it, because if you do it for free there must be something wrong with you.

 

 

I find that comment a bit too personal for my liking. By all means contribute to the debate, but personal attacks will not be tolerated. - Only warning

[Conniff]

I am getting rather fed up with this usual USSEU Rhetoric and tin foil hat mentality by some posters. This constant spamming of Photoshopped pictures and personal YouTube blogs does not help. Why is it when ever you ask legitimate questions the No to the EU contingent will never answer the question, just post some obscure link?

 

I must say on this forum you can debate such issues without being called the usual Leftie, Commie Paedo default response.

 

The real problem is that it is always the negatives of membership being constantly rammed down our throats in the national press, never the positives or what impact any exit will have on trade, but more importantly employment security.

 

Some of us just wish for an honest debate without the usual political rabid dog persuasion from whichever side of the political spectrum you support

 

Ok, here's your chance to convert all the no's with your reasons why everyone should vote 'yes' ??

[obiter dictum]

1. Free Trade Agreement (No customs duties etc)

2. Britain would still have to accept 75% of EU law to trade within the EU. (Four founding principles)

3. Britain will have to pay substantial fees like China to export into the EU.

4.Britain will lose credibility in negotiations with other world powers if we lose all negotiating powers at the EU top table. (World influence)

5. Britain's GDP will fall dramatic

6.Employment will be restricted for UK nationals wanting to live and work throughout the EU.

7. Major car manufactures etc will move to a member states with lower cost base. Britain will be hit with import tax into the EU and no doubt the British Government will also instigate an export tax as well.

8. Farmers will lose billions through EU subsidies.

9. Britain will be given the scraps that remain. Europe will look after its remaining 27 member states first before the little englander

10. Employment rights such as the working time directive, paid holiday and sick pay, maternity rights, employee Health and safety etc, etc

11. No world war for over 70 years

12. Britain gets far more back as to GDP and trade than its contributions into the EU (0.4%) which is set as to GDP. The return the UK gets is 62-78 Billion a year. (Source CBI)

13. No more EU development fund to promote Growth and employment in economic black spots with building projects

14. The UK Parliament still remains the supreme legislature to make, enact, and repeal all laws

 

That will do for starters

[Conniff]

There are a lot of 'will' in there, can we be shown the proof of your claims or are they all supposition ?

 

No.9 Yea, it really is a shame that Canada, the USA, Australia, NZ etc are all doing so badly and are in a worse state than say Nigeria, they would really be better off if they could join the EU.

 

No.11 is really silly. So if we leave, the world will go to war is what you are saying.

 

No.12

Britain's EU contributions chart

 

 

Edited July 7, 2015 by Conniff

[obiter dictum]

Considering the likes of our commonwealth countries already have a Trade agreement with the chinese, the same as the EU. It is called the Trans Pacific Trading Partnership. All my links have been referenced through the CBI, Independent council for law reporting and the House of commons own library. No ifs about it

 

As to number 11

 

The whole purpose of the EU was to stop the insular ape superiority complex of European nation's. These nations work together as one now, no impose diktat on another. The result has been the longest period of peace the world has ever known

[Old Cogger]

Pity people are not dealing with the issues now , i........e. Budget Cuts by the Tories and look for now at the difference it will make to the real man in the street and the difference to the Tory backers with money - that is what it is all about at the moment, we all went thru EU membership in the very early 70s, budget now and EU after all settled,

 

many a true word said when it is thought Governments want the people to concentrate on t=one subject, but behind the scenes do something else which when found out it is too late for the populous to know.

 

History shows this.

[Conniff]

That is just the point, we didn't go through any EU membership anything, we had a referendum on a 'Common Market' ie a combined trade agreement, not any mention about taking our sovereign powers from us.

[obiter dictum]

Conniff

 

If you are going to put up indiscriminate posts, you tube blogs, photoshopped pictures

 

Then please reference those posts with a credible reference source like i have done and not some right wing anti Europe twisted agenda. They are the usual no campaign ramblings otherwise

[citizenB]

1. Free Trade Agreement (No customs duties etc)

2. Britain would still have to accept 75% of EU law to trade within the EU. (Four founding principles)

3. Britain will have to pay substantial fees like China to export into the EU.

4.Britain will lose credibility in negotiations with other world powers if we lose all negotiating powers at the EU top table. (World influence)

5. Britain's GDP will fall dramatic

6.Employment will be restricted for UK nationals wanting to live and work throughout the EU.

7. Major car manufactures etc will move to a member states with lower cost base. Britain will be hit with import tax into the EU and no doubt the British Government will also instigate an export tax as well.

8. Farmers will lose billions through EU subsidies.

9. Britain will be given the scraps that remain. Europe will look after its remaining 27 member states first before the little englander

10. Employment rights such as the working time directive, paid holiday and sick pay, maternity rights, employee Health and safety etc, etc

11. No world war for over 70 years

12. Britain gets far more back as to GDP and trade than its contributions into the EU (0.4%) which is set as to GDP. The return the UK gets is 62-78 Billion a year. (Source CBI)

13. No more EU development fund to promote Growth and employment in economic black spots with building projects

14. The UK Parliament still remains the supreme legislature to make, enact, and repeal all laws

 

That will do for starters

 

Would this mean that we could stop importing foodstuff from all over the EU rather than using what is grown in this country ?

 

France's farming subsidies are far higher than those given to the UK - yet France is very inefficient in its farming.

 

France and Italy only obey those EU regulations that suit France and Italy. the UK seems to be forced into obeying all ?

 

Would we be able to reclaim our fishing grounds instead of letting all of the EU take what they want ?

 

Would we see British firms tendering for the large engineering and building projects.. rather than letting Germany, France etc have them ?

 

Would we be able to reclaim our utility companies ?

[Conniff]

1. Free Trade Agreement (No customs duties etc)

2. Britain would still have to accept 75% of EU law to trade within the EU. (Four founding principles)

3. Britain will have to pay substantial fees like China to export into the EU.

4.Britain will lose credibility in negotiations with other world powers if we lose all negotiating powers at the EU top table. (World influence)

5. Britain's GDP will fall dramatic

6.Employment will be restricted for UK nationals wanting to live and work throughout the EU.

7. Major car manufactures etc will move to a member states with lower cost base. Britain will be hit with import tax into the EU and no doubt the British Government will also instigate an export tax as well.

8. Farmers will lose billions through EU subsidies.

9. Britain will be given the scraps that remain. Europe will look after its remaining 27 member states first before the little englander

10. Employment rights such as the working time directive, paid holiday and sick pay, maternity rights, employee Health and safety etc, etc

11. No world war for over 70 years

12. Britain gets far more back as to GDP and trade than its contributions into the EU (0.4%) which is set as to GDP. The return the UK gets is 62-78 Billion a year. (Source CBI)

13. No more EU development fund to promote Growth and employment in economic black spots with building projects

14. The UK Parliament still remains the supreme legislature to make, enact, and repeal all laws

 

That will do for starters

 

I see no references ????

 

And stop the personal slagging off, I am not right wing, left wing or any wing.

[obiter dictum]

The simple fact is people cannot say what will happen as it has not happened before. One thing is for certain for the UK to trade with Europe it will still have to comply with its treaty laws of trade, the same as Switzerland and Norway, The EU will look after their existing member states first before the little englander