Should we leave the EU..

[Conniff]

There are a lot that actually take away rights we already have like SOGA which is why they were not implemented in full. But I didn't say anything about being bad, we can make up our own rules to suit our nation, we have done for thousands of years and done alright by them. Trade and a common market fine the worlds worst dressed woman (if it is a woman) telling the whole of Europe what to do NO.

[unclebulgaria67]

There are a lot that actually take away rights we already have like SOGA which is why they were not implemented in full. But I didn't say anything about being bad, we can make up our own rules to suit our nation, we have done for thousands of years and done alright by them. Trade and a common market fine the worlds worst dressed woman (if it is a woman) telling the whole of Europe what to do NO.

 

The views you express reveal a strong 'islander' feeling that is common in people living in islands around the world.

 

I have the opposite feeling, that we are part of one world and should embrace it. I don't want the UK to retreat back into being a small island nation. The people of the UK need protection from their government in the form of the EU/ECHR. It is a bit like having an outside regulator to step in to make rulings where it is needed. Sometimes it is inconvenient but it is mostly in the interests of the people. The EU went further on consumer rights than the UK Parliament wanted

[Conniff]

Yes I'm an Islander and love being so. I would also love more than anything for the world to be one big country, but that will never happen when you have the likes of Russia, China, N Korea and Iran. They are only interested in domination.

 

As for the choice of words, 'retreat' is not a word in the British dictionary, we have never been a lock the door and hide away nation. Remember we owned the world at one time, so I don't think retreat is a word that comes into it.

[unclebulgaria67]

Yes I'm an Islander and love being so. I would also love more than anything for the world to be one big country, but that will never happen when you have the likes of Russia, China, N Korea and Iran. They are only interested in domination.

 

As for the choice of words, 'retreat' is not a word in the British dictionary, we have never been a lock the door and hide away nation. Remember we owned the world at one time, so I don't think retreat is a word that comes into it.

 

The world has changed and it is how you deal with it. I use the word retreat to mean that people think that separation is the way to handle change. It is far too late for that now. We are Europeans and need to work together to face the competition from countries like China.

[SabreSheep]

I think the problem is that the way the EU has evolved has led to what is perceived as an unaccountable juggernaut that resembles a scrap yard.

 

The idea has merits but maybe the EU needs to be scrapped and started again with its new aims and objectives clearly spelt out. Not a mess that evolved from a trade union to a political one.

[unclebulgaria67]

I think the problem is that the way the EU has evolved has led to what is perceived as an unaccountable juggernaut that resembles a scrap yard.

 

The idea has merits but maybe the EU needs to be scrapped and started again with its new aims and objectives clearly spelt out. Not a mess that evolved from a trade union to a political one.

 

I don't mean this to accuse anyone of racism or xenophobia, but I wonder whether people would feel the same way if all members of the EU Parliament spoke English and sounded like they were from the Home Counties of England,

 

At the election many in England did not even want Scottish MP's having the right to vote on some issues at Westminster or having much influence on government.

 

I find this is harking back to only wanting those within the clan to hold any power over the clan. This allows nationalism to grow and some take it too far. Look at some of the SNP supporters and how they behaved. Do we want to see a rise in English nationalists ?

[SabreSheep]

The problem with any form of government is that the public must have faith that they understand and represent all sections of the community.

 

The bigger the Community, the harder it gets.

 

The EU could work, but atm we have problems with having faith in our own government, let alone that is as transparent as a brick wall XD

[unclebulgaria67]

The problem with any form of government is that the public must have faith that they understand and represent all sections of the community.

 

The bigger the Community, the harder it gets.

 

The EU could work, but atm we have problems with having faith in our own government, let alone that is as transparent as a brick wall XD

 

People don't like government, whether it is local, national or at continent level.

 

I think the EU does work but could do with some reforms to make it better. Once you get passed the nationalistic tendency, there are not many specific issues affecting people in the UK caused by membership of the EU.

[Conniff]

there are not many specific issues affecting people in the UK caused by membership of the EU.

 

Immigration.

[renegotiation]

Yes it will, they can't get out of it now.

 

I wouldn't be so sure about that, as our governments have a good track record of getting out of things they promised. Whether the population would stand for it, if they tried, is another matter.

[Conniff]

They may promis a lot of things and break those promises, but they won't the referendum, it's too deeply entrenched and been hammered into the people to much.

[antone]

They may promis a lot of things and break those promises, but they won't the referendum, it's too deeply entrenched and been hammered into the people to much.

 

Agreed. The government majority is small and the last thing they need is some sort of backbench rebellion. Reneging on the EU referendum promise would be a sure way to guarantee such a thing.

 

Even without the backbenchers, I'd guess there were a fair number of people who voted Tory specifically because they wanted an EU referendum or at least wanted the issue to be discussed seriously in this Parliament. I know Cameron has said he won't seek another term as PM, but presumably he wants his party to have a chance of still being in government after June 2020. He won't break this promise.

[renegotiation]

I hope you are both right and we will all see soon enough. If it didn't happen, then I would have to declare democracy in this country, whatever little we have left of it, totally dead. Touch wood.

[caledfwlch]

Every argument the No campaign made against Scotland going Independent applies to leaving the EU.

 

Look at Norway - a lot of Norwegian Politicians would love it to be in the EU - the problem they have is they have to enact EU legislation that they have no control over or say in, because they dont belong to the EU, but if they didnt enact that legislation, they wouldn't be allowed to trade with the EU, and various other things.

 

So we couldn't leave, and become a powerful trading nation, continuing to trade with the EU, we would simply still have to enact certain stuff, and not even get the billions that the EU sends to Britain for poor areas etc.

 

The Immigration arguments don't stack up either!!!

Here are a couple of EU nations who have citizens resident in the UK

Germany 126,000 German Nationals in UK

Spain 71,000 Spanish Nationals in UK

Netherlands 40,000 Dutch Nationals in UK

 

UK Citizens in those Nations:

Germany 115,000

Spain 761,000

Netherlands 44,000

 

So should we leave the EU and send the EU Migrants "home" and they retaliate and send Brits back, we will not only not ease the population, but increase it, France has about 130,000 Brits! And many of those Brits, especially in Spain and France are on local Benefits, and using up local services, especially elderly brits in both. So we would have several hundred thousand Brits coming back, all needing the NHS and benefits system, at least temporarily.

 

We would be exchanging many working EU Migrants, for Brits who wont be working, many of whom will be on pensions.

[unclebulgaria67]

Every argument the No campaign made against Scotland going Independent applies to leaving the EU.

 

Look at Norway - a lot of Norwegian Politicians would love it to be in the EU - the problem they have is they have to enact EU legislation that they have no control over or say in, because they dont belong to the EU, but if they didnt enact that legislation, they wouldn't be allowed to trade with the EU, and various other things.

 

So we couldn't leave, and become a powerful trading nation, continuing to trade with the EU, we would simply still have to enact certain stuff, and not even get the billions that the EU sends to Britain for poor areas etc.

 

The Immigration arguments don't stack up either!!!

Here are a couple of EU nations who have citizens resident in the UK

Germany 126,000 German Nationals in UK

Spain 71,000 Spanish Nationals in UK

Netherlands 40,000 Dutch Nationals in UK

 

UK Citizens in those Nations:

Germany 115,000

Spain 761,000

Netherlands 44,000

 

So should we leave the EU and send the EU Migrants "home" and they retaliate and send Brits back, we will not only not ease the population, but increase it, France has about 130,000 Brits! And many of those Brits, especially in Spain and France are on local Benefits, and using up local services, especially elderly brits in both. So we would have several hundred thousand Brits coming back, all needing the NHS and benefits system, at least temporarily.

 

We would be exchanging many working EU Migrants, for Brits who wont be working, many of whom will be on pensions.

 

Very wise comments !

 

Cameron wants the referendum to deal with Tory divisions and UKIP. Those against EU membership may be more likely to vote than those that want to stay in the EU. If Cameron looses his gamble and the UK votes to leave, this would be a massive problem to sort out. The Stock markets may crash and it may cause problems with currencies. Businesses looking to invest in the UK who had put on hold decisions, are likely to use their money elsewhere.

 

Dangerous game Cameron is playing and it may lead to his government finishing early.

[determindator]

It looks like the negatives of leaving will outweigh any positives of leaving. All we hear is that foreign business will leave and many jobs lost. I suspect as been said, when it comes down to it the same will happen in UK as in Scotland, scared of the unknown. Maybe it will be a case of better the devil you know.

[tobyjugg2]

Despite being the EU-cashcow, UK has ALOT of "tax beneficial" resources in the EU which could go to waste if we were to leave. I'm not to sure if they would even be affected as we would more than likely retain EEC status.

 

Not only that, but as Britain has evolved into a "Service Nation" over the years, the services we deploy around the EU are mission critical to the income of the UK.

 

I think that second paragraph is why it would be disastrous for the UK to leave the EU.

 

If the wicked witch had invested in UK industry and manufacturing rather than destroying it and effectively deregulating the financial systems, then we would would probably be in a stronger position, but not enough stronger to make the decision different I think, just reducing the chances of being really in the do-doos if we did leave..

 

I would love to see the proposals for the UK's trade with the rest of the world if we did leave now.

 

Having said all that, I really have very mixed feelings and thoughts about a federal Europe effectively run by unelected officials.

[sparkeyrjp]

Yes

ECHR

Calais

Edited June 28, 2015 by sparkeyrjp
update

[determindator]

Yes

ECHR

Calais

 

 

Would you be able to give us more info on the positives to leaving, as no one else is. People will have to be told the positives for the out arguement.

[Guest]

seems sparkey refers to

not being subject to the echr (though the courts have long since had regard to the echr re hr, even prior to 72 and the hra). though yes, a human rights act, or the like, may not be necessary if not in the EU. though its like will subsist.

 

the current probs at calais. but, wont they be there whether in or out.

[unclebulgaria67]

seems sparkey refers to

not being subject to the echr (though the courts have long since had regard to the echr re hr, even prior to 72). though yes, a human rights act, or the like, may not be necessary if not in the EU. though its like will subsist.

 

the current probs at calais. but, wont they be there whether in or out.

 

Yes human rights will still apply and Calais would still be the same.

 

People who think leaving the EU would place the UK in a better position should listen to what is said by Norwegians.

 

Would be madness to leave the EU.

[Guest]

one of our self made entreps advocates staying in. branson.

tbh, as joe p, i dont know the full sp. thats the idea of P, for them to decide whats best for us. but do they?

even if the ref says no, it doesnt mean that P will take us out?

[caledfwlch]

seems sparkey refers to

not being subject to the echr (though the courts have long since had regard to the echr re hr, even prior to 72 and the hra). though yes, a human rights act, or the like, may not be necessary if not in the EU. though its like will subsist.

 

the current probs at calais. but, wont they be there whether in or out.

 

And of course, the ECHR and the European Human Rights Court are actually nothing to do with the European Union itself.

 

Funny how Cameron doesn't want a referendum on the ECHR, presumably because he doesn't want to come clean on what would very likely become known, after its enactment as "The British Bill of Rights We Used to Have" Governments never like giving, only taking, and a Bill of Rights would without question strip away many Rights all in the name of "Terrorism"

[unclebulgaria67]

ECHR will still exist and the UK will still be a member. The bill of rights talked about is just allowing UK courts a fuller role in deciding human rights and trying to impress on the ECHR that human rights have been fully considered by UK courts.

 

So it does not make much difference and is purely a political message of UK trying to seek dominance.

[Consumer dude]

A/ Be part of Europe for trade as what we were sold in the seventies.

 

B/ Leave the EU in its current form as it's unelected.

 

C/ Secure our borders with the army involved.

 

D/ Stop trying to meddle in other country's affairs..