Should we leave the EU..

[obiter dictum]

http://www.cbi.org.uk/campaigns/our-global-future/factsheets/factsheet-2-benefits-of-eu-membership-outweigh-costs/

[Conniff]

The simple fact is people cannot say what will happen as it has not happened before. One thing is for certain for the UK to trade with Europe it will still have to comply with its treaty laws of trade, the same as Switzerland and Norway, The EU will look after their existing member states first before the little englander

 

Which is what we have always had to do and all trading countries have to do with whoever they trade with the same as they have to with us.

[citizenB]

We would save billions in membership fees and the hidden tariffs that UK taxpayers pay to export goods to the EU because of red tape, fraud and waste.

 

Small and medium sized business who don't trade (apparently 90% of businesses don't ) with the would be freed from EU regulations and would likely be able to employ more staff.

 

We would be free to trade with non EU countries through the World Trade Organisation.

 

We would regain control over our own borders - that should provide a few extra jobs.

 

No European Arrest Warrants.

[tobyjugg2]

Yes, that is a fair point that UK government is not any more open than the EU.

 

In the interests of national security ...

 

Well we think we are the nation, and its our security, so we should be fully informed.

'That would inform our enemies' - I think it would remove useful weapons from those who would harm us and spread falsehoods.

[unclebulgaria67]

In the interests of national security ...

 

Well we think we are the nation, and its our security, so we should be fully informed.

'That would inform our enemies' - I think it would remove useful weapons from those who would harm us and spread falsehoods.

 

Politicians only want you to know what they want you to know. So much is kept secret and not even released under the 30 year rule.

 

Thus thread is about the EU, but recently some of the archives of Mrs Thatcher were released under the 30 year rule, which would have caused huge embarrassment and trouble at the time, had they been known about. Governments hide information under the guise of official secrets, often because it would cause them difficulty. The Tories have refused to comply with a number of ICO and court rulings to release information under freedom of information. They have done so on the basis of not compromising independent expert advice and undermining government being able to function.

 

As for the EU argument, it is becoming a bit uncivilised. Nothing is perfect. Nobody really knows how the UK would be affected coming out of the EU or whether the EU might have to make huge changes in the years ahead, given the current problems. It is quite possible that the UK voted to stay in the EU and then there is some massive treaty change that triggers another referendum. It is clear that Germans don't want to financially support other countries beyond what they normally contribute to the EU. Others countries probably feel the same way and therefore federal EU is not going to happen. The next EU treaty may well scrap some of the integration features of previous treaties and hand back power to countries parliaments.

[tobyjugg2]

As for the EU argument, it is becoming a bit uncivilised. Nothing is perfect. Nobody really knows how the UK would be affected coming out of the EU or whether the EU might have to make huge changes in the years ahead, given the current problems. It is quite possible that the UK voted to stay in the EU and then there is some massive treaty change that triggers another referendum. It is clear that Germans don't want to financially support other countries beyond what they normally contribute to the EU. Others countries probably feel the same way and therefore federal EU is not going to happen. The next EU treaty may well scrap some of the integration features of previous treaties and hand back power to countries parliaments.

 

Although some of your points there seem clearly true, Your last point seems unquestionably mistaken.

 

This is the EU we are talking about, not the common market. Ever closer Union to a federal Europe is its core basis.

[unclebulgaria67]

Although some of your points there seem clearly true, Your last point seems unquestionably mistaken.

 

This is the EU we are talking about, not the common market. Ever closer Union to a federal Europe is its core basis.

 

Think the situation has changed and no German chancellor could gain the authorisation to move towards a federal EU. Many countries now have to hold referendums, if there is a new treaty and a treaty further federalising the EU is unlikely to be supported. There is no way the French would support it.

 

Whatever the EU originally intended is not going to happen. Economics and self interest have taken over.

[tobyjugg2]

Whatever the EU originally intended is not going to happen. Economics and self interest have taken over.

 

I agree, and what is a few billion euros, particularly as its not real money, compared to Germany (+France) effectively ruling Europe.

I don't think France would have too much of an issue with them being (+France) rather than (no-one in particular).

 

No conspiracy rubbish - it seems simple to see.

Germany is doing very well thank you despite all the 'bailing out' - I see it as 'bailing in' - which is why a grexit is such an issue.

[unclebulgaria67]

I agree, and what is a few billion euros, particularly as its not real money, compared to Germany (+France) effectively ruling Europe.

I don't think France would have too much of an issue with them being (+France) rather than (no-one in particular).

 

No conspiracy rubbish - it seems simple to see.

Germany is doing very well thank you despite all the 'bailing out' - I see it as 'bailing in' - which is why a grexit is such an issue.

 

Germany sells a lot of luxury goods, with 11% of their exports being cars. There are enough wealthy people around the world to keep demand high. Luxury goods companies have done well during the recession.

 

Also Germany is doing well from cheaper oil and gas imports, as they mostly rely on imported fuels.

 

At the moment Merkel and Hollande are not getting on very well, as their politics is opposite to each other.

[tobyjugg2]

Germany sells a lot of luxury goods, with 11% of their exports being cars. There are enough wealthy people around the world to keep demand high. Luxury goods companies have done well during the recession.

 

Also Germany is doing well from cheaper oil and gas imports, as they mostly rely on imported fuels.

 

At the moment Merkel and Hollande are not getting on very well, as their politics is opposite to each other.

 

 

Yes, but Hollande is very much the junior politician 'leading' (stumbling along) the junior partner with France currently very divided and being pushed along by France's existing momentum.